those meritorious officers who had been in the India Company's service.-As to the other circumstances of discontent, there would be reason to apprehend that there may be disappointment, if not discontent, should the application for such assistance be refused. As to the third objection, the aukward situation to which the appointment would reduce the officers, by exposing them to be placed on half-pay, and interfering with their promotion, he could not, in his view of the question, admit such a conclusion. He could not perceive why such officers might not be in as fair a situation to be promoted to vacancies as if employed in any other way.-There was another genera! subject on which the Right Hon. Sec. had touched, though he had applied it somewhat whimsically. He had stated as his opinion, that the admission of regular officers into militia regiments was a wise measure, and he was even disposed to go further than the legislature had done; it was fair then to turn his personal judgment against himself, and insist that with such an opinion he cannot consistently object to the proposition, for if regular officers were of great benefit to the militia, they must, of course, be equally so to the volunteers, and he had no besitation in saying, that though he thought the decision of Parliament right, he now, with his eyes open, asserted it was erroneous. He therefore hoped that gentlemen would not object to the proposition; he would not, however, press it then; but unless he should understand it to be the intention of his Majesty's government to adopt some such regu lation, he would bring it forward again hereafter.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer considered the reasons advanced by his right hon. friend, against adopting the proposition to its full extent satisfactory. He concurred in the principle, but he had doubts of its practicability. The number of volunteers in the united empire was 430,000, which, if formed into battalions of 500 each, and from local circumstances a greater number could not be assembled, would require 860 field officers. He admitted that the right hon. gent. (Mr. Pitt), had distinctly stated battalions, not corps, on a former occasion.-The half-pay could not supply any officers, the whole on that establishment having been appointed to the reserve. It would, therefore, be necessary to resort to the regulars. the whole amount of the regiments in the united kingdom was 70; there were 25 or 26 regiments of cavalry; but taking the whole at 100, to supply 860 each battalion should

afford eight officers. Though the right hon. gent. had distinctly mentioned captains, not field officers, it would be admitted, that they should be men not only of military acquirements, but of temper, and address to manage with effect so vast a force. He had considerable doubt in his mind, concerning a measure that would go to take its very essence from the army. Besides the individuals themselves would quit reluctantly, nor, though employed in the same glorious cause, would they be satisfied with the same species of renown which they might acquire in acting with the volunteers, and therefore he did not think it right to take from the army, persons unwilling to commute their services. He had some doubt as to the application of the principle, because, from what had come to his knowledge within the last four days, be had reason to think, that the corps would not be satisfied that regular officers shot d be ingrafted on their original body; their original institution was to serve under cfcers with whom they were connected by every tie of intimacy and acquaintance, and, therefore, the proposition, with respect to them, invoked an aukward acter native. He knew, if it was put to them, they possibly might not object to it, though, at the same time, it might create a degree of discontent, which could never have been in the contemplation of the right hon. gent. who had brought forward the question On these grounds he entertained doubts as to the principle, though he was prepared to admit that every effort ought to be made to give greater efficiency to the volunteer corps and to give some more confidence in going into action. He could not help thinking the House indebted to the right hon. gent. for his suggestion, as well as for that respecting adjutants, which had been adopted, and produced much good effect. Another suggestion of the right hon. gent. also for brigading small corps, under generals from the regular forces, was likely to be attended with much benefit. These generals, and their respective staffs, would be a drain from the line equal to what it could bear. The Chancellor of the Exchequer then adverted to the admission of regular officers into the militia, which was chiefly composed of substitutes. The same regulation did not apply to the volunteers, because the chief object was to preserve the genuine relations between the officers and privates, and, therefore, the introduction of regular officers amongst them was much more liable to objection than in the militia, where the prevalence of substitutes

weakened that connection.-As he was up he should take the opportunity of adverting to the deficiency in the military, which, he was happy to say, was, in an unprecedented degree, small; and the most effectual measures were to be taken to fill it up, so that when Parliament should next meet, gentlemen would have no reason to regret any deficiency. In the artillery, which consisted of 13,000, there were not more than 480 deficient, and measures would be taken to fill up the deficiency in the regulars with all possible dispatch.

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Mr. Windham did not mean to trouble the House at any length, after what he had said on a former occasion; but, as many topics were then omitted, and some important suggestions had since been made, he thought it not wholly unnecessary to say a few words. His right hon friend under the gallery (Mr. Pitt), had explained and enforced, with his usual ability, the measures which he had wished to see adopted for the improvement of the volunteer system; observing, with too much truth, that his ideas in that respect, were diametrically opposite to those of Mr. Windham. Helamented the fact, and not the less sincerely, because it must happen in consequence, that his ideas must be diametrically opposite to those of his right hon. friend. It was always painful to him to differ from his right hon triend, with whom he so generally agreed and independent of that feeling, there was commonly the further cause of regret, that his opinion, so opposed, had less chance of being received. It was not on that account, however, less necessary, that he should state the grounds, on which his opinion was formed.-His objections certainly did not arise from any general feeling adverse to voluntary serVice. On the contrary, he had always strongly declared himself in favour of voluntary service, as opposed to that which was compulsory: but voluntary service did not necessarily mean service of volunteer corps, such as they were now constituted. Here and there, perhaps, the cases might concur. One of the corps which he should have looked to, though resembling in some degree those to which he was objecting, was the corps of which his right hon. friend was at the head: and which had contributed, probably not a little, to lead him to the ideas which he now entertained respecting volunteer corps in general. This was a corps, formed in peculiar circumstances, and with peculiar advantages both in respect of its leader, and of the men of whom it was composed. His right hon. friend was not

to conclude that what could be done by himself, circumstanced too as he was, could be done by any other commander, and with respect to any ordinary corps. His right hon. friend had at once his own personal powers, his general authority in the country, and the authority of his high provincial o'hce. He had a people to deal with rendered tractable by a more immediate exposure to the danger, and animated with something of a peculiar character, and peculiar duties. It was the experience of what might be done in these particular circumstances, which had misled, as he conceived, his right hon. friend in his ideas of this service in general. For his part, he must confess, that the notions which he entertained, and the conclusions which he was led to draw, were altogether different. He must object to the volunteer system; first, as being very ill-adapted to the principal and more immediate purpose, for which it was wanted; as increasing most materially the difficulties of recruiting the army; as being liable to have a most injurious influence on the character and conduct of the army; as in fringing the just claims, and violating the reasonable feelings, of military men, by con founding those distinctions which they had hitherto enjoyed exclusively, and effecting a general depreciation of military titles and honours; as confounding the ranks and gradations in civil life, while it disturbed and deranged the ordinary functions of society; and lastly, as liable to become a source of great future political danger, such as might be apprehended always, from great bodies of armed men subject to no military control, and whose constitution at this moment was, in innumerable instances, precisely that, which would be most likely to give birth to such danger, and to render it formidable, were it to take piace. A proof of this he would give to the House, (since he perceived in some parts expressions of incredulity,) by producing the constitution of one of the principal corps in this city, which had been recently furnished to him, and which he had in his pocket. It would appear by this, that the corps was governed, not by officers approved and appointed by his Majesty, but by committees and sub-committees, so constructed, as that it might happen continually that questions the most important to the proceedings and well being of the corps, might be decided by a quorum, in which there should be six privates to one officer. Any thing more completely democratical, or better supplied with all the apparatus usually provided for such purposes, could not have been furnished by

any of the dealers in constitutions to be found in the Corresponding Society. It was impossible, therefore, to look at these institutions, however full of zeal and loyalty at present, and to reflect on what they might become hereafter, without a considerable degree of jealousy and uneasiness. One effect of their power was already apparent in the complete conquest which they had obtained over his Majesty's ministers. It was plain, that the hon. gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer did not dare to stir a step respecting them, without first asking their leave. It was whimsical to see the embarrassment in which he was placed, between his fear of rejecting a proposition coming from the right hon. gent, behind him, (Mr. Pitt) and the greater dread of offending the volunteers. Both were objects of terror, and the combination of the two fears seemed likely to produce a kind of oblique course in the right hon. gent., that would satisfy neither one side nor the other. This was not the natural situation for a government to be placed in. A military measure, before it was adopted, might, with great propriety, be referred to those, who were likely to have a good judgment in military affairs; but the question referred would be, "what is good upon the whole for the interests of the state or of the army?" not, as in the present case, "what do the soldiers or officers like?" Such, however, was the ascendency which the volunteer body already had over the government! He wished they might be able to prevail as easily over the legions of Buonaparte. If they would, he should be inclined, for one, to overlook, all other dangers that might be apprehended from them. He would shut his eyes to consequences, and jump the life to come,' if he could be satisfied that the system, as at present established, was calculated to answer its grand purpose, that of the defence of the country against a foreign enemy.-It seemed to be admitted, that it was not so at present; though it was hoped it might become so under the alterations proposed by his right hon. friend. He was fain to confess, that he despaired of the efficacy of these alterations.

It was not that he did not see the advantage of having an intelligent regular officer attached to a volunteer corps; or the improvement which the corps would receive by the effect of greater training. But how were these advantages to be obtained? And what, after all, would they produce? Among the difficulties of obtaining part of these advantages, viz. the assistance of re gular oflicers, must be stated, not only the

army.

consent of the corps, which did not appear, by what had been said that night, to be quite a thing of course, but the consent of the officers; and when to ensure this latter, it was proposed that rank should attach to these appointments, a most material objection arose on account of the effect which such a system would be likely to have on the character and discipline of the A more mischievous thing could not well be conceived, than to let loce, among the army, a wild spirit of speculation, similar to that which was so fatally opened at the beginning of the late war by the measure of raising men for rank, and to put half the of ficers of the army upon seeking advancement in their profession, rot by foreign service, not by professional skill, not by a strict discharge of their regimental duties, nor by the approbation and good will of their com manders, but by interest and recommenda tion among the colonels, (or committees) of volunteer corps. The evils of such a

state of things would reach to a greater extent, and operate in more directions, than might at first be supposed. It would unsettle the minds of officers; it would dis turb the discipline of regiments; it would weaken the useful dependence of officers upon their superiors; it would injure the military character; it would relax the zeal and spirit of the army by opening a new channel to advancement independent of service or military merit; it would produce discouragement and discontent, by new examples of men, who had succeeded in reaching the honours, by deserting the duties, of their profession. If this was the view of the measure, in respect to the army, it would not be very promising on the other hand, with respect to the volunteer corps, for whom, certainly, it would not procure that class of officers, (it was to be hoped so at least) who would be likely to render them the greatest service. But when the best was done in procuring aid of this sort, what, after all, could be the effects which it could produce upon corps constituted as those in question must necessarily be? To give opportunity for the exertions of these officers, an augmentation was to be made in the number of days of training: but, be sides the insufficiency of the time proposed, great as it might be, to give to men the ex pertness, and much more, the general ba bits and character of soldiers, was it considered, how far the assembling nen in this way would be practicable; and what the inconvenience would be, could it be effected? Here came in the great and insurmountable

difficulty in the attempting to give to vo

sion and depreciation, would be consider ed as a ground of complaint. No one cer tainly could look down upon an honour, which implied that the person attaining had been accepted on the part of his Sove reign. But, since in this as in other instances, the Sovereign would not act but by advice, nothing was really proved in these cases but the protection and favour of the mi nister, which might evince the political power of the party, but neither was, ne pretended to be, an evidence of any thing else. Let it not be said, therefore, that those who reduced the value of military distinctions, took from officers, and from the army, nothing but what they ought to part with, with indiference. If this were so, every title, order, medal, decoration of whatever sort, was a mere toy and plaything, which none but trifling minds could value, and which might be dispensed from henceforth to whoever would take it, without the least regret on the part of those, by whom, till then, it had been enjoyed-Whether the loss of this distinc tion had excited any regret on the part the army, was more than he could pretend to say. Very possibly it had not; though the effects in time would not be the less felt. But that the distinction was in fact lost, could be no longer matter of dispute. A witty lady of the last age, the mother of a venerable marquis equally distinguished for his talents, was reported to have said, upon some great creation of peers, that she was afraid to spit out of her window, lest what fell at the moment should happen to light upon a peer. A similar apprehension might be felt in the present cir cumstances respecting officers. There could not be a company assembled of half a dozen persons, in which, the chance was not, that one of the number was an officer. He him self was a captain: it was probable, that before long he should be a colonel. When such was the facility of creating officers, the numbers could not fail to be considerable. He would not revert again to the feelings of those, (if they happened to have any care upon the subject) who having embraced the army

glad to try this with respect to other honours. He should be glad to know from his right hon. friend, or from the hon. gentleman opposite to him, whether the candidates for peerages, and baronetcies, for red and blue ribands, would be satisfied on being told, that these distinctions could be no object to them, as they would neither make them richer nor wiser, nor more powerful, nor con fer or declare any quality that was not equally possessed and equally known, at the moment of their application? Whether the present holders of these honours, would be perfectly well pleased, or were perfectly well pleased, at seeing them become as cheap and common as most of them, it must be confessed, had of late years been made? Yet the complaint in this case would be far less reasonable than in the other. It was much more easy to conceive, why an officer, with only his pay to live on, with no place perhaps in society but what his commission gave, and with nothing to announce his commission but the riband in his hat, or the title by which he was addressed, should be tenacious of these distinctions; distinctions earned through many a hard day's service; than why men, possessed apparently of all that fortune could give, should be pining after honours, which to the eyes of ordinary observers could add so little either to their happiness or consequence. A great peer, it might be thought, could better dispense with a riband, or a great commoner with a peerage, so far as distinction was concerned, than a soldier of fortune with those tokens and titles, which were to distinguish him in the eyes of strangers, and which being withdrawn or confounded, left him without distinction of any kind. But these things were not only relatively great, great to the officer, who had probably nothing else either to supply their place or to console him for the want of them; they were in themselves distinctions, which all mankind would agree to value, and of which it would be much easier to explain the value, than of many of those which were more eagerly pursued. Formerly, he who bore the title of captain or colonel, could be no other than a man belonging to an honourable profession, who, if not in the prime of life, must probably, have been an actor in scenes, which every one would be glad to have shared in; and have displayed qualities, which those who most felt to possess them, would still be happy to have evinced by trial. His title afforded presumption of a character, which the common feelings of mankind would never suffer to be regarded but with

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profession, and served in every quarter of the world, should find themselves suddenly lost in a croud of officers, who had never seen, or were likely to see a day's service, and who, like himself, had nothing military but the name. These were some of the objections to the volunteer system, as it respected the its effects on the community at large were far from inconsiderable. It wa

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