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Mr. BUCHANAN. And while this policy may increase, and doubtless will increase, the regular force it will cut off a great many special attorneys?
Mr. HOLLAND. Yes: and reduce the total expense of the department. That is what we are after.
Mr. BUCHANAN. That is what you are trying to do?
SUPPORT OF UNITED STATES PRISONERS.
The CHAIRMAN. The next item is, “For support of United States prisoners, including necessary clothing and medical aid," etc. You ask for $138,000 and the appropriation was $920,000. This is not to provide subsistence, clothing, and medical aid for prisoners in the penitentiaries, is it?
Mr. KENNARD. No, sir. This is for prisoners in State institutions and county jails. Of course, the number of prisoners has tremendously increased, particularly toward the close of the year.
The CHAIRMAN. How do you account for that? Mr. KENNARD. Arrests in prohibition cases, I should say is the primary element. The unpaid bills have increased since we made this estimate to more than the amount reported, namely, $169,000, but we are hoping we will have some repayments from unexpended balances of disbursing officers, which will enable us to complete all payments.
The CHAIRMAN. I suppose this is another matter over which you have no control?
Mr. KENNARD. We have no control over the number of prisoners. We must feed and house them and we endeavor to make the best rates we can with State institutions.
The CHAIRMAN. Are all of these prisoners housed under contract?
Mr. Key. They are housed under agreements made between the department and the county sheriffs.
RATES PAID FOR MAINTENANCE OF PRISONERS.
The CHAIRMAN. What do you have to pay for the maintenance of prisoners, say, in a county jail?
Mr. Key. The rates vary from 30 cents in some States to $1 in some others.
Mr. Key. Yes; but the Government is not bound by the State law. We make our contracts irrespective of that; in a great many cases the rate is lower than the rate provided by the State law.
The CHAIRMAN. How often do you revise rates or negotiate for new rates?
Mr. Key. Whenever we get a demand for an increase we send the inspector out in order to endeavor to hold the rate down.
The CHAIRMAN. You never attempt to have the rates lowered?
Mr. Key. Yes. There has been a vacancy in the office of the inspector of prisons during the whole of the last year. A new inspector has been appointed, and just as soon as we get our reports in for 1921 and can see what the expenses have been, he is going out to try to reduce expenses generally.
The Chairman. How many prisoners are to be paid for out of this appropriation? What is the average number?
Mr. Key. During the fiscal year 1920 there was a daily average of approximately 2,600 prisoners in State and county jails. I have not the figures for 1921, but there must have been a daily average of about 3,000 or 3,300. We have not those figures compiled, but we are compiling them now.
The CHAIRMAN. Let us take up the next item, “ For such miscellaneous expenses as may be authorized by the Attorney General for the United States courts and their officers," and so on. You are asking for $42,000?
Mr. KENNARD. Yes, sir,
The CHAIRMAN. Before we leave the item for the support of L'nited States prisoners, I notice you have a proviso to this effect:
** Prorided, That the accounting officers are authorized to reimburse from this appropriation the board of prison commissioners of the Texas State prison system in the amount of $5 paid as discharge gratuity to l'nited States prisoner, Ilattie Burr."
That is a small item, but could you not have attended to that without this legislation?
Mr. Key. Under the law the United States prisoners are not entitled to gratuities unless they get a sentence of six months or over, and through an error in the transmission of a telegram a prisoner who was serving a sentence of four months was granted gratuities, and this is to reimburse the sheriff who paid out that sum.
Mr. KELLEY. What do you mean by gratuities--giving him a little money with which to go away?
Mr. KEY. They get a gratuity of $5 in cash, transportation to their place of residence or place of conviction, and a suit of clothes.
The CHAIRMAN. Let us take up the next item, "For such miscellaneous expenses as may be authorized by the Attorney General for the United States courts and their officers,” and so on. I suppose that is due to claims that had not been reported at the time the balance was covered into the Treasury?
Mr. KENNARD. Yes; that is for a prior year.
The CHAIRMAN. One for 1918, one for 1919, and one for 1920. Would the one for 1920 properly come under the head of balances that had been covered into the Treasury?
Mr. KENNARD. The appropriation for 1920 was not sufficient and in this particular instance there was no balance covered into the Treasury, but these are ascertained liabilities which developed long after the close of the year.
The CHAIRMAN. You have some legislation in the bill as follows:
"Provided, That the General Accounting Office is authorized and directed to settle under this appropriation for the fiscal year 1920 the bill of Judd & Betweiler, amounting to $12, for furnishing 50 copies of the brief in the case of Isaiah Smith v. the United States," and then some other items. While they are small, it seems to me they are claims.
Mr. HARRIS. They are claims.
The CHAIRMAN. And they ought to be provided for in a special bill. This committee does not have jurisdiction over claims.
Mr. KENNARD. We have no way to allow this unless Congress permits it. Through inadvertence this printing was done outside instead of at the Government Printing Office, and therefore, we can not pay the bill, although the work was done in gool faith under order from the Government.
The CHAIRMAN. But this is not the proper committee to come to with these items. They ought to go to the Committee on Claims.
Mr. Harris. Heretofore we have been putting these into deficiency bills.
The CHAIRMAN. I know, but we are going to stop you from doing it in the future, because we are not going to legislate, if I have anything to do with it.
Mr. KENNARD. It is the same way with the item of $41.11. It has been a longestablished custom to bring these items before this committee.
Mr. HARRIS. Of course, it is a claim that arises through some decision of the comptroller in construing restrictive legislation, and it is quicker and easier to get it done in a bill of this kind, if the testimony is sufficient to support it, than it is by special hill.
Mr. Byrns. I do not know where this claim originated, but I take it that this way an error on the part of some district attorney or some official.
Mr. Harris. Yes; in having printing done outside which should have been done at the Government Printing Office.
Mr. KENNARD. Where it would probably have cost the Government more.
Mr. BYRNs. It might not have been done if the district attorney or official had asked the Department of Justice to have it done.
Mr. Kennard. Yes, sir; it was done under order from the department; it was clearly authorized
The CHAIRMAN. I would like to suggest to you, whatever we may do with this, that in the future we would like very much to have you leave those legislative provisions out of your recommendations, because under the rules of the House this committee has no authority to legislate, and we do not like to have you go to the Senate and put items in the bill which would not be permitted to be put in if the bill originated in the House.
Mr. HOLLAND. Your idea being that there should be a special bill for relief?
The CHAIRMAN. Yes. I want to call the attention of the Department of Justice to the fact that this bill should have originated here.
Mr. KELLEY. Why were not these estimates sent here?
Mr. STEWART. We did send them here, Mr. Chairman, but they did not get here before you had acted on the deficiency bill.
The CHAIRMAN. I know; but you want to get here in time after this. We are going to look with disfavor on any action on your part in going over to the Senate with bills of this sort, when they ought to come here and this committee have an opportunity to understand what the items are for. We are compelled to hold this hearing after the bill has passed the House and after it has practically passed the Senate. Mr. KENNARD. Was not this reported to the House by the Budget Bureau? The CHAIRMAN. It was sent in after we had passed on our bill.
Mr. Harris. That arose from the fact that we did not have the figures before us, as it was so close to the end of the fiscal year.
The CHAIRMAN. Hereafter I recommend that you wait and submit them to the House, because you are going to get in trouble if you do not do it.
Mr. KENNARD. There was no intent on the part of the department to dodge this Committee.
The CHAIRMAN. I do not suppose there was: but you know that the Constitution provides that these items shall originate in the House.
Mr. KENNARD. All we can do is to report them to the Budget Bureau.
The CHAIRMAN. Well, report them to the Budget Bureau in time. It is very embarrassing to go before the House and say we do not know anything about a bill of this sort.
Mr. KENNARD. We did report in time, but the President was away and it did not Mr. Harris. They had it approximately 10 days before it was sumbitted to you.
The CHAIRMAN. I just wanted to give you timely warning, and I just want to say in this connection that in the future we do not want any legislation included in any of the estimates you send to the committee. If you have any legislative provisions you ought to send them to the committee that has jurisdiction over that legislative procedure, because we will not take cognizance of it.
Mr. KELLEY. I would like to ask what amount is included in the item covering authorized payments for subsistence in excess of $5 per day, cab fare and war tax paid to H. (. Cowles, expert ecologist. How much does that involve?
Mr. KENNARD. The cab fare is only a few dollars; the remainder of the $41.11 is the excess over $5 per day for subsistence.
Mr. Harris. That arises from the fact that for years, under a decision of the Comptroller of the Tresaury, we had considered an expert who appeared in court as not being an employee of the Government, but very suddenly he reversed himself and held that experts were employees of the Government within the meaning of the act of 1914, which limited the expenses to $5. This is for the purpose of permitting us to pay what we contracted for at the time and prior to this de ision.
Mr. BUCHANAN. What is meant by this language, covering authorized payments for subsistence in excess of $5 per day, cab fare and war tax paid to II. C. Cowles, expert ecologist ?”
Mr. KENNARD. That is all one item of $11.11.
Mr. BUCHANAN. On what is he an expert? In other words, I want to find out the meaning of that word "ecologist. Mr. HOLLAND. You will have to send for a dictionary, as far as I am concerned. Mr. KENNARD. I admit I do not know. The CHAIRMAN. Why do you use hieroglyphics in making up this item? Mr. KENNARD. That is the way he was styled in the appointinent.
The (HAIRMAN, I want to ask you some more questions about the item "for such miscellaneous expenses as may be authorized by the Attorney General for the l'nited States courts and their officers." You had an appropriation of $590,000, and you are asking for $12,000 more for 1921. How does all of this additional expense come about?
Mr. KENNARD. There has been a material, and yet not a very great, increase over the like expense for 1920, due to a number of different elements which enter into an appropriation of a miscellaneous character. The amount used for various kinds of experis, handwriting, medical, land, and others was much greater than the year before; printing and binding was $12,000 more than the previous year; fuel cost more by about $3,000.
The CHAIRMAN. Do you mean to say that fuel was higher in 1921 than in 1920?
Mr. KENNARD. I can not say definitely whether it was higher or whether we bought more, but it cost us $3,000 additional. The death of the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court gave rise to ceremonial expense of about $4,000, and there was greater expense for masters in chancery.
The ('HAIRMAN. There was a larger record?
Mr. Kennard. The printing and binding is, but the compensation of the masters is not.
Mr. KELLEY. Would there be any way to detail the $42,000 under subheads? Could you subhead that, showing so much for this purpose and so much for that purpose?
Mr. KENNARD. Yes, sir, we can do that.
Miscellaneous expenses, United States Courts. Expenses, fiscal year 1920, in round numbers..
$553, 000 Expenses, including ascertained liabilities 1921, approximately...
632, 000 Increase....
79, 000 The above-mentioned increase arises substantially as follows: 1. Additional on account of employment of accountants, handwriting
experts, medical experts, real estate experts, and other temporary tech-
18,000 2. Additional on account of compensation of masters in chancery appointed by the court, approximately
7,000 3. Additional on account of printing briefs, court calendars, etc., and other miscellaneous printing and binding, approximately.
12, 000) 4. Additional on account of ceremonial expenses incident to the death of the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, approximately.
4,000 5. Additional on account of the purchase of fuel, approximately. 6. Additional on account of miscellaneous personal services not specially
classified, approximately. 7. Additional on account of expenses of travel and subsistence, approximately..
10,000 8. Additional on account of special and miscellaneous services other than
personal, including the furnishing of heat, light, and power, approxim
ately. 9. Additional on account of temporary stenographers to report special cases, approximately...
8,000 ATLANTA (GA.) PENITENTIARY-MISCELLANEOUS EXPENDITURES. The CHAIRMAN. The next item is “Atlanta, Ga., Penitentiary: For miscellaneous expenditures, including the same objects specified under this head in the sundry civil appropriation act for the fiscal year 1921 for the penitentiary at Leavenworth, Kans., $1,449.10." You made an estimate of $2,000 and the Senate reduced it to $1,449.10.
Mr. Key. Yes, sir; we advised the Senate that they might reduce it to that amount. When the actual bills were received by the warden they amounted to $1,449.10.
LEAVENWORTH (KANS.) PENITENTIARYThe CHAIRMAN. You have an item of $20,000 for the construction of a water tank. What is the necessity for that?
Mr. Key. At the present time, due to our inability to get sufficient water, the upper tiers of the cells during the early morning hours, when the men arise, are without water for the toilets, and it makes a very insanitary and disagreeable condition; in fact, the physician is fearful of an epidemic at any time. The plan is to erect a water tank of 120,000 gallons, which can be filled during the night, when we can get the water, and we will have it to use in the day time.
The CHAIRMAN. How long has that condition existed?
Mr. Key. That condition has existed for some time, but it has been a progressive condition; it has been progressing for the last 18 months, getting worse and worse. Our population is increasing, and the prison is built out from the city of Atlanta, and it is built up all the way out, and those people are drawing off more water.
The CHAIRMAN. Do you get your water supply from the city of Atlanta?
The CHAIRMAN. And the pressure is not sufficiently strong to supply the upper tiers?
Mr. Key. That is right.
Mr. Kelley. Which you want to fill during the night, when people are not using water?
CONSTRUCTION OF WATER TANK.
Mr. Key. Yes, sir.
Mr. Key. Yes, sir. When the physician operates he has to operate in the morning, and he has to have buckets of water carried into the operating room because he can not get water there.
CONSTRUCTION OF POWER HOUSE.
The CHAIRMAN. For the construction, complete, of a new power house you are asking $30,000. Is there a power house now?
Mr. Key. Yes, sir; there is a power house there now which was erected and the plant installed 20 years ago.
The CHAIRMAN. Is this to be a substitute for that?
Mr. Key. This is to be a substitute for that, and it is urgent for the reason that we have outgrown the present power house. The boilers and engines have been repaired until now it is almost impracticable to use them. Last month we had a bad explosion. One of the boilers blew up and five men were very seriously injured and a great many others received minor injuries, and three of those men have died. The present plant is not able to supply low pressure sufficient for the institution during the summer months.
The CHAIRMAN. This is for the operation of the machinery?
The CHAIRMAN. But the machinery in it is to operate the machinery in the penitentiary?
Mr. Key. Yes, sir;and in addition the lighting and heating; it is to run the machine shops and the refrigerating plant.
Mr. BYRNS. Was this item and was the item for the water tank estimated for in the regular bill?
Mr. Key. This is an emergency estimate.
NUMBER OF PRISONERS.
The CHAIRMAN. How long will it take to construct this building if authority is granted?
Mr. Key. From the way the engineer talks in his report he will have it running by February
FOR PURCHASE OF BOILERS, ENGINES, ETC., FOR POWER HOUSE.
The CHAIRMAN. Will the building be erected by prisoners?
Mr. Key. The building will be erected by prison labor, and that is the reason the Cost is so low; all we have to do is to buy the building materials. You will notice there is also an item for the purchase of boilers, engines, and other equipment for power house, $91,500. After taking the matter up with the expert over in the office of the Architect of the Treasury we have knocked out an item of $23,500 for automatic stokers, so that the item can be reduced that much.
Mr. HOLLAND. Is it economy to do that?
The CHAIRMAN. Have you made efforts to see whether or not we have any of this lwiler equipment that could be used in the War Department or the hipping I card, where we have so much surplus machinery of all kinds?
Mr. Key. Yes, sir. The Director of the Budget has that matter under consideration with a view to giving us the machinery which it will be necessary to substitute until we can arrange a new one. We have taken care of that.
The CHAIRMAN. So you are contemplating utilizing machinery which the Government has on hand?
Mr. Key. Yes, sir; substituting it until we can get the new.
The CHAIRMAN. Substituting the machinery which the Government has until you can substitute for that new machinery later?
Mr. Key. The substitute machinery is not all that we need; it is just enough to tide us over until the new plant is installed.
The Chairman. But we have machinery of all kinds, the best in the world, that we are not going to do anything with except to let it rust out. You would not have to substitute anything for that?
Mr. Key. If they can furnish it, we are perfertly willing to take it.