to employ them is to be granted at all, it should be granted at once, and that is why we have called the District Government in this early, Nobody knows what the attitude of this committee will be on the question of allowing additional police, first, because there is some doubt in the minds of all here as to the wisdon of having five or six different departments of the Government functioning in this activity. We have allowed the State Department funds for what was presumed at the time they came here to be all the activities that might arise including secret service protection for those who come from abroad during the conference, but we are not committed, and we will be delighted to hear whoever wishes to make a statement as to the need for this appropriation.

Mr. RUDOLPH. I might say at this point, Mr. Chairman, that at a conference with the State Department six weeks ago, we were told we could expect no help whatever, financially, from them; that they would require everything that was allotted to them for their particular functions.

The CHAIRMAN. We did not think you would get any part of that appropriation, but my thought was, and I think it was the general thought of the committee, and if I am wrong I would like to have the members correct me, that the State Department had facilities to provide for a secret service and to do whatever was necessary for the proper safeguarding of those who come here as guests of the country. However, as far as I am concerned, I would like to see a quick disposition made of this item so you will know just exactly what we are going to do. If we are going to be opposed to it, we ought to tell you, and if we are for it, we ought to act at once.

Mr. BYRNS. If you will pardon me, Mr. Chairman, my recollection is that when the appropriation was recommended by the committee, it was understood that a certain portion of it, which was expressly allowed by the committee, was for the protection of the delegates. I do not mean to say that that was written into the appropriation, but it was understood by the committee that a certain portion of the fund was to be used for that purpose.

The CHAIRMAN. That was my understanding of it. Mr. Oyster, are you going to present the case for the commissioners ?

Mr. OYSTER. Mr. Chairman, I have not very much to say on the subject of the need for this money, but Maj. Gessford is here and can better describe the requirements and the demands that might be made upon the citizens for protection. The present force is absolutely inadequate to cope with any condition more than the normal condition, and hardly that. There will be many details asked for upon the part of the police, and the major I think has worked out a program as to about how many men are likely to be needed on this special detail work. That will take from the force, of course, and weaken it very considerably. As it is now, we have not more than 300 people on duty at any one time. With those on leave of absence and sick and on detail, we would be very much handicapped if we are asked for any additional help or details. Mr. Chairman, I would be glad to have Maj. Gessford explain that item if he will.

The CHAIRMAN. We will be glad to hear him.

Maj. GESSFORD. My object, Mr. Chairman, in petitioning the commissioners for this additional money was that the police department will be called upon for extraordinary service during the entire con

ference, the length of which we do not know. It may run for one month or six months. These delegations arriving here now for the last 10 days require a detail of men to look after them at the depot, to clear the Plaza, look out for them at the places where they are stopping, and the State Department requires us to have a detail at the residence of each delegation for each 24 hours. At the present time I have 27 men so detailed, which takes that many from their regular patrol duties.

The CHAIRMAN. Is the matter any more important now than it was during the period of the war when we had so many more people coming here from all over the world than we will have at this conference?

Maj. GESSFORD. Yes, sir; and I was not called upon to make these permanent details that I will be called upon to make during this conference, and owing to the unsettled conditions throughout the country which you gentlemen are more familiar with than I am, I think, as a precautionary measure, we have got to properly police our city, and during the conference we will be called upon to have a detail each day at the buildings being used, which will take that many men from their patrol duties, and to properly protect the city my idea was, when I made this request, that it would necessitate at least 100 of our men for this duty, and to supplant these hundred men it will be necessary to appoint 100 additional privates for regular patrol work.

The CHAIRMAN. The men you would put on for this work will be inexperienced men?

Maj. GESSFORD. Inexperienced; yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Would they be the men selected?

Maj. GESSFORD. They would take the place of the uniform men I would use on these several details.

The CHAIRMAN. You would transfer men in citizens' clothes.

Maj. GESSFORD. These special officers somehow or other rake up a part of a police uniform, and we try to keep them on duty with a regular man. Where there are two men, there will be one additional private and a regular police officer. Moreover, during the entire conference there will be continual social functions in the city, entertaining by not only our President and the members of the Cabinet, but our citizens will entertain with receptions, and so forth, and all those matters call for extra details. We have to police them. We will also have a permanent detail down at the buildings in which the conference is being held right along. As far as the amount of money to be expended is concerned, there will not be a dollar of expense but what is actually necessary, and if we can get along without these additional privates or cut down the number at any time, we will be only too glad to do it, because it inconveniences us to some extent to have these men around, not being regulars, but the unwarranted publications in certain newspapers that this city is overrun with a crime wave, which there is no truth in, can not but have the effect of inviting the pickpocket and the burglar, and it is an invitation for them to come here.

Mr. WooD. Do you mean to say that these reports in the newspapers with reference to more crime being committed here than any city of its size in the world are not correct?

Maj. GESSFORD. They are not correct; no, sir.

Mr. Wood. Do you mean to say the reports in the paper yesterday morning with reference to the action of these policemen in assaulting this man and woman down here and another policeman assaulting a young girl are not correct?

Maj. GESSFORD. We had a charge or information that a policeman had assaulted a child and we took the party who brought that information and procured a warrant and placed the man under arrest.

Mr. WOOD. It would occur to the ordinary observer that what the people here need is protection against the police department.

Maj. GESSFORD. We have a very good police department here which will compare favorably with any police department in the United States. I have appointed since I have been at the head of the department 400 recruits.

Mr. Wood. Is not the War Department cooperating in this business?

Maj. GESSFORD. They undoubtedly will.

There

Mr. WOOD. Why would it not be a good deal better to have soldiers doing this detailed work rather than some green man. are plenty of soldiers around here that have not much to do.

Maj. GESSFORD. We will not have green men on that work. They will be regular policemen. I am called upon by the State Department to give them this protection.

Mr. WOOD. Why would not a soldier do just as well to watch these houses and stand about on the sidewalk like you have policemen doing now. It seems to me a soldier can do that just as well as a policeman.

Maj. GESSFORD. No; he would not be trained in police work, and I do not think he would be as observant as a policeman. He would be there on guard and stand there motionless; or he might parade up and down in front of a door.

Mr. WOOD. They are supposed to be trained in discipline and to have at least as much of that as a policeman.

Maj. GESSFORD. They may be trained in their line of work, but a policeman is supposed to be observing and be acquainted with undesirable characters, and during the ceremonies incident to the burial of the unknown soldier my idea was to send out and bring in trained men who specialize on pickpockets, anarchists, and notorious crooks. My desire was to have them here at least during three days, the 10th, 11th, and 12th.

The CHAIRMAN. Major, your idea is that on account of the increased number of social functions, etc., you would have to make a great many more details than you would otherwise be called upon to make, and therefore you think it would be wise to get authority for the employment of additional policemen?

Maj. GESSFORD. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. That is the sum and substance of it?

Maj. GESSFORD. That is the sum and substance of it, because my force will be depleted by the extraordinary details called for from time to time, and, of course, we do not know how long this will last. I have been informed it will last from one month to six months. Of course, if it was only a week, or something like that, I would work my men extra time, but when it comes to an extended time, it would be impossible for us to keep the city properly patrolled with the present force.

15

Mr. BYRNS. I notice you have an estimate here of a comparatively small amount for special policemen for the burial of the unknown soldier which is to take place on next Friday?

Maj. GESSFORD. Yes, sir.

Mr. BYRNS. That is due, I presume, to the fact that you expect an immense crowd here?

Maj. GESSFORD. We do.

Mr. BYRNS. Is it customary to ask for special policemen for special occasions like that lasting for a day or two?

Maj. GESSFORD. It is customary during all of the inaugural parades, and the majority of the people are under the impression there will be as large a crowd here as during an inaugural, on which occasion it is always necessary to ask for additional privates. It will be necessary to have these men for three days.. I would appoint about 200 men for the 9th, 10th, and 11th, and I would drop about 100 of them after the third day. Then I would keep as many as I thought necessary to substitute for the men who were detailed in connection with the conference.

Mr. BYRNS. Of course, the question of whether or not you have a sufficient number on your permanent force is one thing, and the question of whether you need special men for a particular occasion like the one which is to occur the last of the week is another. My inquiry was prompted more by this fact: While it is true that there was probably not as large a crowd, yet in my home city of Nashville, we had a reunion of the Thirtieth Division last Friday and Saturday, and there were 75,000 or 100,000 people there, so the papers report, and yet there was no extra appropriation for additional policemen, and yet that town, which is a much smaller town than this, was absolutely overrun with crowds of visitors for those two days.

The CHAIRMAN. We are not likely to have that many people here. Mr. BYRNS. I do not know about that. I was speaking particularly of the burial of the unknown soldier.

The CHAIRMAN. I do not think we will have as many people here as that, although we may have; but after all, that is only an incident. and is only for one or two days, and it would certainly be a very great innovation to increase the police force for just one or two days. Maj. GESSFORD. We do it during the inaugural period.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you get special authority for that?

Maj. GESSFORD. Yes, sir; the force is increased by act of Congress. Col. KELLER. Mr. Chairman, I do not think the major made it quite clear that every special guard he is required to put on for a foreign delegation requires three men, because there are three reliefs, and that accounts for some of this money.

Mr. BYRNS. Is it the idea to guard the buildings in which these delegates are housed?

Maj. GESSFORD. Yes, sir.

Mr. BYRNS. Referring to the question of Mr. Wood, why could not soldiers and marines do this work? We have them here in the city and down here at the Marine Barracks, which is only a few blocks from the Capitol. Why could not the War Department and the Navy Department detail soldiers and marines to stand guard in front of these buildings?

Maj. GESSFORD. Mr. Byrns, those soldiers are not familiar with the laws and police regulations, and they are further not familiar with

conditions in the city. This detail of policemen is requested by the State Department. For instance, now, take the Shoreham Hotel, the Powhatan, and the Willard; when the delegates go in there we detail a man at the entrance of those places. He is on immediate call in case anything should happen in the building, or if there was a suspicious character around in that vicinity he would take prompt action, whereas a soldier would not be in position to do that.

Mr. BYRNS. I remember during the war we had soldiers stationed around the White House, we had soldiers guarding the British Legation, and we had soldiers guarding the French Legation. I remember passing those buildings where they were located out on. Sixteenth Street and seeing quite a detail of soldiers there.

Maj. GESSFORD. And, independent of that, we had to have policemen detailed there. They called on us and depleted our force for the work of looking after each delegation that came here to visit this city during the war. They called on us for extra details at all the places where these different representatives of foreign countries stopped during their visit here during the war independent of the military guard.

The CHAIRMAN. We are only to have four representatives from each nation in the ambassadorial class and there are four nations. All the others are simply advisors, clerks, economists, and so on. Is it contemplated that those people are going to be guarded also?

Maj. GESSFORD. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. If you only have 16 people of the class I have just indicated, assuming we were to guard them, that would not take so many men, would it?

Maj. GESSFORD. It would take 48.

The CHAIRMAN. You mean you intend to have one for each man? Maj. GESSFORD. Of course, if they doubled up, and half of them were stopping at the Willard, I would not have more than two men there.

Mr. KELLEY. It seems to me, Major, that this suggestion of Mr. Wood would fairly meet your requirements through having the assistance of the Marine Corps?

Mr. BRANDENBURG. Will you permit me to answer that, Mr. Chairman?

The CHAIRMAN. Certainly.

Mr. BRANDENBURG. I happen to be chairman of the subcommittee of the citizens' committee, which is making whatever arrangements they can for this conference, and I prepared this joint resolution after a conference with various gentlemen on that committee, all of whom are business men, all of whom are very anxious to keep down the taxes and prevent the expenditure of any money they possibly can avoid, because every dollar you put on the District is that much more out of our own pockets. We went into this question thoroughly. We considered first the question of whether or not $25,000 would be ample. We are absolutely in the dark, just as much as you are, as to whether this conference is going to be for one month or for six months. We have no conception of that. We considered the question of the military and went into that quite thoroughly. Our idea is this, here is a conference for the limitation of armament. These foreign people are coming to the United States, and the less they see of the military, we think the better it is going to be. We are object