The CHAIRMAN. So, as a matter of fact, you are organizing a new industry in the Labor Department?

Mr. KERWIN. No; not really. For instance, the man assigned in the coal industry, we will say, would be thoroughly familiar with everything that was coming up in the joint conference. Then if a strike were threatened, that man would be put on that case with such assistance from our regular men as we could give to him. He would then be thoroughly competent to discuss with both sides all of the angles and he would know all the wage scales and conditions to be met in the different kinds of mining and things of that sort.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you think it is the business of the Labor
Department to put men in industries to measure the heart throbs of
labor and capital and see wherein they conflict in their beats?
Mr. KERWIN. No, indeed.

The CHAIRMAN. That is what this means, does it not?
Mr. KERWIN. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How far away am I from being right?

Mr. KERWIN. In a way, you have got the idea, but we have not any investigatory power. For instance, there may be a score of different kinds of agreements existing between the coal miners and their employers in the different fields. Then there is the question of organization which enters into it, and then there is the different kinds of mining, anthracite, bituminous, lignite, and so forth, and then there is the metalliferous mining and all of the elements involved in each. The difference which would obtain in Iowa, for instance, might not exist in Indiana, but this man would become familiar with every angle of every situation in every State.

The CHAIRMAN. This would seem as if you were going to socialize the industries if you enter upon the activity you are now suggesting. Mr. KERWIN. No, Mr. Chairman, we do not have any intention of that kind.

The CHAIRMAN. You want the Government to act as a spy on the men in the industries and on the employers in the industries? Mr. KERWIN. No; indeed, not.

The CHAIRMAN. And finally decide for each of them what they are going to do in the matter of harmonizing their own differences? Mr. KERWIN. No; he would not have any power nor any right to look at the books or investigate the companies or associations or anything of that kind. He would gather information which was given to him in a voluntary way, but he would be in position to advise the Secretary, and if the matter came up to the point of a strike in a basic industry, for instance, he would be in position to furnish the Secretary with the exact information which would place him in a position to intelligently handle a situation of that kind or make suggestions that would be based on a true knowledge of the situation. The CHAIRMAN. This is a new departure, is it not?

Mr. KERWIN. In effect, yes; although we have been doing this incidentally. We tried this out with a regular commissioner of conciliation in the Pittsburgh building trades after all efforts had failed, and the result is that everything is settled in Pittsburgh in the building trades with the exception of asbestos workers and the plumbers.

The CHAIRMAN. Except that they have not any work.

Mr. KERWIN. Well, we are informed that they have $10,000,000 worth of contracts in Pittsburgh that they are working on now.

Mr. KELLEY. Have you not men in your department that understand the textile problems now?

Mr. KERWIN. Yes; and we have a man who is one of the best trained men in the coal industry. This man, who was formerly president of the Kentucky Coal Operators' Association, has been with the department for over seven years. We have also used him in the oil situations and the copper situation, and there has not been a strike in the copper districts of Arizona since he has been handling it. He has the confidence of the employees and employers, and in his field there was not a strike during the entire time he was there, nearly four years.

Mr. KELLEY. So that the department would be pretty well informed through your present employees of any situation that might come up without employing others, as contemplated in this request for a further appropriation?

Mr. KERWIN. Yes; but if we take men out of the regular territory and out of general work and make them specialists in any particular industry, we would have to supplant them with others.

The CHAIRMAN. Your theory or the theory of the Secretary is that the men should be placed in such industries as he might designate at any time that he might choose to assign them to that class of work regardless of whether there was any trouble or whether there was any anticipated trouble, for the purpose of accumulating information that might never be needed.

Mr. KERWIN. But, for instance, Mr. Chairman, we know that these agreements will expire on March 31, 1922, in the coal industry. We know that there is going to be a lot of new angles entering into the coal situation. We know that both sides are generally set in their ideas, and that the time for expiration of the agreement is appraoching. We hope it will not result in any strike, but if it does, we would be in a better position then to handle it, and we hope to be in position to obviate it.

The CHAIRMAN. It is intended to use a part of the deficiency appropriation if you get it, to employ key men, thereby establishing a new industry in the Labor Department?

Mr. KERWIN. The intention of the Secretary was to utilize in those industries whose agreements expire before the end of this fiscal year perhaps two or three men.

The CHAIRMAN. You are asking for an appropriation of $100,000; tell us what you are going to use that money for if you get it. Just make a detailed statement of what you are going to do with it, how many men you expect to employ, what activities you propose to engage in, and how much you propose to pay each man per day and how many of them are to be used in so-called key industries, which will be a new activity in the Labor Department.

Mr. KERWIN. To begin with, last year we had $155,000 and this year we have $100,000.

The CHAIRMAN. And you are spending at the rate of $156,000? Mr. KERWIN. Yes; so that would answer that part of it, would it not?

The CHAIRMAN. No; we want to know what you are going to do with this appropriation.

Mr. KERWIN. The difference between $156,000

The CHAIRMAN. We will assume that $100,000 is all you are going to get, and if you get another $100,000 we want to know what you are going to do with it.

Mr. KERWIN. The Secretary had in mind using the difference between the amount our present work requires and the $100,000, if it were granted, which would be $40,000. He would utilize that, or such part as is needed to put on three or four specialists at salaries not to exceed that being received by the best men he now has on hand.

The CHAIRMAN. $12 a day.

Mr. KERWIN. We have one man at $15-this man who has been the adjuster in the oil and copper fields and was formerly president of the Kentucky Coal Operators' Association.

The CHAIRMAN. With his travel allowances, that would be how much?

Mr. KERWIN. $4 a day plus the transportation charges.
The CHAIRMAN. Making a total of perhaps $21 a day?
Mr. KERWIN. Yes; it might amount to that.

Mr. KELLEY. That would be $7,000 apiece for three men, considering the salary and allowances?

Mr. KERWIN. Yes.

Mr. KELLEY. And you want about $7,000 a year for how many men?

The CHAIRMAN. He just spoke of these three principal industriestextile, mining, and building trades.

Mr. KELLEY. And you want one man for each?

Mr. KERWIN. Yes. Of course, the building trades is a big proposition. It extends from San Francisco to Chicago, New York, and the extreme South, and we would have to assign other conciliators to assist this man.

Mr. KELLEY. Then you would have to have some clerical force to go along with them?

Mr. KERWIN. No; it would not really be necessary because they do most of that work themselves.

Mr. KELLEY. You have $21,000 for three men and stated that there would be others assigned to this work. How much will that cost? Mr. KERWIN. We might need four or five additional men, say, at $10 per day.

The CHAIRMAN. That would mean an additional expense of $16 per day, including the travel and allowance for those men; $16 per day is equivalent to about $5,000 a year.

Mr. KERWIN. Of course, they would not have that every day. Some would be at their official stations most of the time. A man might be from Indianopolis, and he might be working on these matters right there.

Mr. KELLEY. There would be three of these to go with the other three?

Mr. KERWIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. KELLEY. Would there be any other expense connected with this new activity?

Mr. KERWIN. No, sir; that would cover it all for the fiscal year. Mr. KELLEY. You figure that $36,000 would probably be ample for that?

Mr. KERWIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that all you care to say about this?

Mr. KERWIN. Yes, sir; that is about all.

Mr. BYRNS. I notice that you had an appropriation last year of $155,000, and the appropriation for this year is $100,000.

The CHAIRMAN. And they are spending at the rate of $156,000. Mr. KERWIN. That is the way it shows now.

Mr. BYRNS. Can you file for the record a statement showing the number of cases you have had by months from, say, the 1st of January of this year up to the present time?

Mr. KERWIN. We have 70 cases at present. I will be glad to supply you with the record.

Mr. BYRNS. What I was anxious to learn was just how many you had arising each month for consideration each month, during the calendar year 1921.

The CHAIRMAN. If I may supplement that request, it might be well to ask him to say whether those cases are cases in which they were invited after the trouble began.

Mr. KERWIN. Yes, sir; they were.

We adjusted 18 cases in October involving 30,700 workers directly, and I can not tell you how many indirectly, because the final reports have not come in yet.

NOVEMBER 15, 1921.

NOTE. The following cases have been taken up for mediation since the 1st of January, 1921: January, 9; February, 13; March, 21; April, 39; May, 25; June, 23; July, 26; August, 33; September, 27; October, 29; total, 245.

The department proffered its good offices in 15 of these cases without a request from either side; however, in a number of instances, it was intimated that the department could be of assistance in bringing about resumption of work.

The above does not include a number of smaller cases in the oil, copper, and packinghouse industries, each of these cases being carried as one general situation.

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 10, 1921.

POST OFFICE DEPARTMENT.

OFFICE OF FIRST ASSISTANT POSTMASTER GENERAL.

STATEMENT OF MR. W. R. SPILMAN, SUPERINTENDENT DIVISION OF POST OFFICE SERVICE.

FOR COMPENSATION TO CLERKS AND EMPLOYEES OF FIRST AND SECOND CLASS POST OFFICES.

The CHAIRMAN. The appropriation for 1922, "For compensation to clerks and employees at first and second class post offices, including substitutes for clerks and employees absent without pay," is $97,000,000?

Mr. SPILMAN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Why is it necessary to have an additional appropriation to cover that item?

Mr. SPILMAN. The act for the current fiscal year contained a proviso giving credit to certain substitutes who had military service, giving them credit for military service. That we must pay out of this appropriation. That amounts to date to $597,800.

The CHAIRMAN. You promote them into a higher grade?

Mr. SPILMAN. Yes, sir; giving them credit for the time gives them a higher salary. Then the act of July 21, 1921, commonly known as the Steenerson Act, provides that certain carriers and clerks appointed prior to June 5, 1920, should be given the same credit as those appointed subsequent to June 5.

The CHAIRMAN. The act known as the Steenerson Act was to correct an inequality that existed?

Mr. SPILMAN. Yes, sir; those men appointed prior to July 5, 1920, the same as those appointed subsequently to that date.

The CHAIRMAN. They were working under conditions that brought them less pay than those who came into the service after that date? Mr. SPILMAN. Yes, sir. This was simply to do justice to the men who had been in the service.

The CHAIRMAN. How much does that involve?

Mr. SPILMAN. As near as we can get at it, we have not completed the adjustments, it is $185,750.

The CHAIRMAN. And how much is it for the time served in the Military Establishment?

Mr. SPILMAN. $597,800. Then, the Steenerson act also provided for promoting certain special clerks. Shall I rehearse that?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. SPILMAN. At the time the reclassification act was passed the department issued an order that special clerks should be limited to clerks engaged on distribution.

The CHAIRMAN. Although a good many of them had been transferred from distribution to other activities after they had been made special clerks ?

Mr. SPILMAN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And the order of the department would send them back?

Mr. SPILMAN. Preclude their promotion under the reclassification act and force them into the fifth grade, $1,800. The Steenerson Act specifically provided for the promotion of these special clerks and also clerks of other special designations, such as finance clerks and clerks of several other designations. They were forced down into the fifth grade by reason of the reclassification act. That up to date has cost $364,300.

The Steenerson Act also provided that the minimum salary for a foreman should be $2,100, instead of $2,000, and the cost of that has been $82,800, making a total cost not contemplated at all when the original estimate was made of $1,230,650.

The CHAIRMAN. That applies to clerks?

Mr. SPILMAN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. All the foremen and special clerks are recruited from the clerks ?

Mr. SPILMAN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. It does not apply to the carriers?

Mr. SPILMAN. No, sir; not at all.

The CHAIRMAN. You are asking for $725,000 to meet the obligations amounting to over $1,000,000?

Mr. SPILMAN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Which you have just stated?

Mr. SPILMAN. We feel that is a very conservative estimate.