that as representing the people, I suppose, and we are speaking for them. We are the only constitutional body that has a right to make an appropriation. You have ro right to do it, but here you go ahead and do it and then come here and tell us you have done it and ask us to ratify it.

Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. That is the situation exactly. We are telling you what we have done and asking you to approve it. Of course, you would not want me to come to you with this mass of steamboat contracts stuff that comes over my desk constantly and ask what should be done. I assume the responsibility for doing this. When a situation develops where a service must be given, and where we have a Territory like Alaska up in arms, the only thing to do is to go ahead.

The CHAIRMAN. The people in Alaska are up in what?

Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. Up in arms.

The CHAIRMAN. How many people are in Alaska?
Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. About 50,000.

The CHAIRMAN. That is $1 apiece on this one contract.

Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. We have places where we pay more than that for the delivery of mail.

The CHAIRMAN. This is an increase. You have just added $1 apiece to the cost of citizenship in Alaska in connection with this one activity. It seems to me, and I am sure that it is the view of everybody else on this committee, that there is a good deal of assumption of authority on the part of an executive officer of the Government in deciding a question like this that should be decided by the people who are here to make the laws. I do not think it ought to be done. Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. These actions are subject to change.

The CHAIRMAN. There is a Congress here, and it is elected for the purpose of doing certain things. I do not say that this may not be a worthy activity, but whether it is worthy or unworthy, it seems to me that you gentlemen who are in administrative positions ought not to assume to decide these matters without authority. If you have no authority, you are liable under the law for violating the law. This is a law as binding as any other law, and you swore when you took your office that you would obey the law, but instead of obeying it, you go on and violate it, and pay no attention to it.

Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. If there was the slightest doubt in my mind as to the wisdom of entering into contracts such as these, I would come up here to you.

The CHAIRMAN. You would not need to come to me. Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. I would come to the committee. I will do anything that is right or agreeable, and will not assume any authority in this thing, but when a situation like this develops

The CHAIRMAN (interposing). Then the thing to do is to get authority, but do not make appropriations in advance. That is the province of Congress, and you have no authority to make appropriations. If you have, then Congress had as well adjourn.

Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. We can change all of that and cut this service out. It is not too late to recall the contracts. This is all under way, and I thought I would get it before you before the thing actually went into effect. If it is the opinion of the committee that we should not go ahead, it can be stopped.

The CHAIRMAN. It is not a question of whether you ought to go ahead on it or not, but it is a question that you ought to submit to Congress before you decide to go ahead, and not decide what you will do and then tell us you have done it. You should not do that and say, "Here is the obligation, and you must pay it." here to be told what ought to be done; we are here to tell you what ought to be done, but you do not wait for us to tell you.

FREIGHT AND EXPRESSAGE.

We are not

The CHAIRMAN. For pay of freight or expressage on postal cards, stamped envelopes, newspaper wrappers, and empty mail bags, you are asking $1,389.21 for the fiscal year 1921. What is that for?

Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. That is due to the fact that there was a shortage in the appropriation resulting from the increase in freight rates that was not expected when the estimates were submitted.

The CHAIRMAN. Would there have been any money in the appropriation to pay this if the bills had been submitted in time?

Mr. KRAM. The postmasters paid these bills under general authority and submitted claims for them in their quarterly returns. No officer could have had an accurate check on them.

The CHAIRMAN. Was there any unexpended balance in the fund? Mr. KRAM. None at all.

The CHAIRMAN. So they would not have been paid anyway, even if they had been submitted in time?

Mr. KRAM. That is correct.

AIR MAIL SERVICE.

The CHAIRMAN. For the operation and maintenance of the Air Mail Service between New York and San Francisco, you are asking $350,000. We gave you $1,250,000 for 1922, and you operated that service last year for $1,250,000. Why do you need a deficiency of $350,000?

Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. Up to July 1. During the previous administration and up to July 1, under a ruling of the Comptroller General, which I considered technical, funds had been diverted from the railroad transportation appropriation to meet obligations incurred in the air mail service. When I found that condition, I stopped paying moneys out of the railroad transportation appropriation bringing about this situation.

The CHAIRMAN. You would have no right to do that anyway.
Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. I thought so myself and stopped it.

The CHAIRMAN. When we made this appropriation, we made it with the distinct understanding that $1,250,000 would perform the work. Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. It is not sufficient to carry on the operation of the route from Chicago to New York, as we have found necessary to operate it.

The CHAIRMAN. Why not?

Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. Our expenditures were greater than the figures that were submitted.

The CHAIRMAN. How much mail do you carry, and how many trips do you make per month?

Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. I can not say, but we cover the route every day.

The CHAIRMAN. How many planes have you got?
Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. There are 60 planes in service.
The CHAIRMAN. On that line?

Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. Yes, sir; but they do not fly all the time. The CHAIRMAN. How many men have you? Have you the payroll for this service?

Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. No, sir; I will have to extend my remarks on that.

The CHAIRMAN. We will want the payroll.

Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. I will supply it.

(The payroll was later supplied by Mr. Shaughnessy and is here printed in full, as follows:)

ANNUAL PAY ROLL-NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES.

This table shows number employees of Air Mail Service and annual pay roll as of June 15, 1921, and as of November 15, 1921. The force has been reduced by 42 employees (521 to 479) and the pay roll by $76,701 per annum.

Since July 1, 1921, the Post Office Department has done all its own repair and rebuilding work, also conversion of Army ships to make them suitable for mail carrying. During the fiscal year ended June 30, 1921, the department paid airplane companies for rebuilding and converting planes the sum of $276,109.08.

Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. Let me point out that this money is not as yet expended nor have any obligations been incurred; it means that to operate the New York-San Francisco route to the end of the fiscal year we estimate that we will need that much additional money.

AVERAGE WEIGHT OF MAIL CARRIED.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the average amount of mail that you carry in weight in each load?

Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. We have two types of planes: The old style planes carry an average of 300 pounds and the new ones carry an average of 700 pounds.

The CHAIRMAN. Do they carry that much?

Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Do they expedite the delivery of mail on the Pacific coast?

Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. They expedite the delivery of a very small percentage of first-class mail.

The CHAIRMAN. How much?

Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. I would have to guess at it. I should say that it would not exceed more than one-tenth of 1 per cent.

The CHAIRMAN. One-tenth of 1 per cent of the first-class mail carried over that route?

Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Tell us how you work this route. What time do you leave New York?

Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. At 7.30 in the morning.

The CHAIRMAN. What mail do you take from New York?

Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. Cleveland letters and some Chicago gateway; the clean-up mail.

The CHAIRMAN. Mail coming in after 8.45 at night?

Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. Yes, sir. It is taken to Cleveland by plane and an exchange made with the fast mail train that left New York at 8.45 o'clock the night before. There 350 or 400 pounds of mail is taken from the fast mail train and delivered in Chicago early in the evening, so as to catch the 9 o'clock westbound fast mail trains. A mail plane leaves Chicago at 7.30 o'clock in the morning and the same sort of an operation is repeated for the west. It overtakes the fast mail train leaving Chicago the night before at North Platte, Nebr., and exchanges mail with it, taking mail from the train and carrying it to the next exchange point. The planes work as auxiliaries to the fast mail trains crossing the continent.

The CHAIRMAN. How many letters finally reach the Pacific coast in advance of the train schedules?

Mr. SHAUGHNESSY. I can not say. There is no attempt to segregate certain mail for the airplane service.

The CHAIRMAN. But you must know how many letters would be finally delivered in advance of the train schedule on each plane and how many hours they would reach San Francisco in advance of the train schedule? It would not be more than one-tenth of 1 per cent? Mr. SHAUGHNESSY, During the quarter ending September 30 there were 10,390,000 andled by the air mail planes. That is estimated, based on the ht handled by the planes over the entire