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this time because we do not have a nickel for printing from now until December 31, unless we suspend requisitions already placed, which we can not do without delaying the work called for by them. It is an embarrassing situation to the department.

The CHAIRMAN. You say you have $300,000 not touched ?
Mr. HOWELL. But under this new law, we can not use that.

The CHAIRMAN. I think the new law is to safeguard the Treasury of the United States, and it certainly should not be an embarrassment to anybody. That law has been there for 10 years.

Mr. HOWELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. Byrns. You can not make requisitions on the showing that you have the money in your appropriation?

Mr. HOWELL. We can make the requisitions, but he will not do the work. It is an embarrassing situation.

The CHAIRMAN. You do not owe them anything until they deliver the work.

Mr. HOWELL. But the fundamental law under which the Government Printing Office operates permits him to make those charges in order that he may get the use of that money for defraying the expense of operating the Government Printing Office.

The CHAIRMAN. You stated that this law contained in the sundry civil act was the law that embarrassed you. Mr. HOWELL. Yes, sir. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. It now turns out that it is not this law at all, but the action of the Public Printer.

Mr. HOWELL. No, sir; that is the law that embarrasses us, or the Public Printer's construction of that law. What I wished to bring out in my other statement was that the Public Printer put the construction he does on it, due to the laws under which he is operating the Printing Office.

The CHAIRMAN. What was the construction of the Public Printer of this law last year?

Mr. HOWELL. The law was not enforced. We had $450,000 worth of work over there and nothing was said about it. That law had not been rigidly enforced since I was connected with the Postal Service.

The CHAIRMAN. This law should not embarrass you. That provision reads as follows:

Not more than an allotment of one-half of the sum hereby appropriated for the public printing and for the public binding shall be expended in the first two quarters of the fiscal year, and no more than one-fourth thereof may be expended in either of the last two quarters of the fiscal year, except that, in addition thereto, in either of said last quarters the unexpended balances of allotments for preceding quarters may be expended, and no department or Government establishment shall consume in any such period a greater percentage of its allotment than shall lawfully be expended during the same period of the whole appropriation.

That does not say that the charge shall be made for any work not actually done.

Mr. İLowell. The reason the Public Printer makes that charge is due to the laws under which he operates over there at the Government Printing Office, and he is rigidly enforcing that law this year.

The CHAIRMAN. This is not the law that he operates under.
Mr. HOWELL. No, sir; the law you just read.

The CHAIRMAN. It does not require him to make a charge until he delivers the goods. There are restrictions.

Mr. Byens. But he is requiring you to come with the money in hand at the time you make the requisition ?

Mr. HOWELL. Yes, sir; and under this law we have no money available for any requisitions we may make from now on until December 31, 1921.

Mr. KELLEY. Have you put in any requisitions for material to be delivered in the second half of the year? That would not be prohibited by that statute.

Mr. HOWELL. Yes, sir; as soon as we put in a requisition, he figures it up and estimates the cost of the job, and then charges it to our allotment.

Mr. KELLEY. When the whole expenditure was really to be incurred and the work delivered and paid for in your second half ?

Mr. HOWELL. The work would be delivered in the second half.
Mr. KELLEY. That does not seem like a sound construction.

Mr. HOWELL. No, sir; but the Public Printer has been through the whole proposition with us and he has shown us where his hands are tied, due to the laws under which he operates the printing office.

Mr. SLEMP. You do not really need $750,000 to do this work during this fiscal year?

Mr. Howell. We estimate now from the best figures available that we will need $750,000 to take care of the printing during the present fiscal year, but not at this particular time. We could wait until the next session of Congress if it were not for that particular law,

The CHAIRMAN. Suppose this law were not in effect, and you were permitted to go on and expend your appropriation just as you pleased, what would be the state of the account at the end of the fiscal year?

Mr. HOWELL. The chances are that our account would probably have $490,000 worth of work over there and the Public Printer would deliver us something like $300,000 worth. That is, working on the basis of last year's figures, because last year at the end of December, the printing office had rendered bills covering work completed and delivered amounting to $299,017.86, and estimated that the unbilled work amounted to $195,467.56, or a total of billed and unbilled work of $194,485.42..

The CHAIRMAN. So that, as a matter of fact, it would not make any difference what the law was, you would go on and spend $150,000 more than the amount appropriated ?

Mr. HOWELL. We will require a deficiency, but we can not gauge it accurately at this time. We can not say whether it will be $150,000, $200,000, or only $100,000, because, as I have said, we have this committee on forms and blanks at work, and there has been a decrease in the cost of paper.

Mr. KELLEY. While you are putting the burden of the request for a deficiency appropriation on an act of Congress, yet you estimate that if there were no act you would go on and spend the $150,000 additional.

Mr. HOWELL. What I meant to say was this, that we would not require any deficiency just at this particular time if it were not for that act of Congress. If it were not for that act of Congress we could wait until we could make a more accurate estimate.

The CHAIRMAN. I think you came before the subcommittee on Post Offices, of which I was the chairman, and stated that $600,000 was all you needed.

Mr. HOWELL. No, sir; that was in the sundry civil bill. The CHAIRMAN. Is there anything else you care to say? Mr. HOWELL. We are in a very precarious situation now, and we have not a dollar that we can use for printing.

The CHAIRMAN. Sometimes that might be a good thing. Mr. HOWELL. Not for our service that is serving 100,000,000 people and operating 24 hours a day.

The CHAIRMAN. We are trying to serve the people, but you who are spending the money do not take the people into consideration at all.

Mr. HOWELL. Mr. Chairman, the fact that we have appointed this committee on forms and blanks and effected a saving of $140,000 last year proves I think that we are doing everything we can to curtail expenditures in the matter of printing and binding.

The CHAIRMAN. We can only judge of your economies by the number of deficiencies you ask.

• THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 10, 1921.

DEPARTMENT OF STATE.

STATEMENT OF MR. WILBUR J. CARR, DIRECTOR, CONSULAR

SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF STATE.

SALARIES OF INTERPRETERS TO EMBASSIES AND LEGATIONS, 1916.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Carr, you have an item on page 74 of the bill which indicates that you have a deficiency for 1916 amounting to $1,000. The item reads, “For 10 student interpreters at the Embassy of Turkey,” etc. Do you mean 10 students at $1,000 each?

Mr. CARR. No, sir; it is a $1,000 item, belonging to the regular appropriation for 1916 for interpreters to embassies and legations.

The CHAIRMAN. Tell us about that item.

Mr. CARR. The circumstances are that on December 15, 1915, our ambassador at Constantinople drew upon the Secretary of State for $1,000 on account of salaries to be paid to the student interpreter attached to his embassy. The original draft was purchased by a private individual over there. In those days there were no banking facilities, so that they sold drafts to whomever would buy them. The person who purchased this draft went into the interior of Turkey and eventually lost the draft. Meanwhile the unexpended balance of the appropriation reverted to the Treasury in accordance with the law.

The CHAIRMAN. This $1,000 was deposited with the Government service and the person who made the deposit asked for a draft and it was issued ?

Mr. Carr. No. The operation is this: All of our officers abroad, in order to pay the salaries of their subordinates, draw upon the Secretary of State for the money. They sell the draft to a bank and out of the proceeds pay the consular salaries. In this case, however, instead of selling the draft .to a bank-banking facilities then being very limited--the embassy sold it to an individual; the individual lost it. Since then a duplicate of that draft has reached the department but the appropriation had meanwhile reverted to the Treasury. Mr. BYRNs. But he is requiring you to come with the money in hand at the time you make the requisition ?

Mr. HOWELL. Yes, sir; and under this law we have no money available for any requisitions we may make from now on until December 31, 1921.

Mr. KELLEY. Have you put in any requisitions for material to be delivered in the second half of the year? That would not be prohibited by that statute,

Mr. HOWELL. Yes, sir; as soon as we put in a requisition, he figures it up and estimates the cost of the job, and then charges it to our allotment.

Mr. KELLEY. When the whole expenditure was really to be incurred and the work delivered and paid for in your second half ?

Mr. HOWELL. The work would be delivered in the second half.
Mr. KELLEY. That does not seem like a sound construction.

Mr. HOWELL. No, sir; but the Public Printer has been through the whole proposition with us and he has shown us where his hands are tied, due to the laws under which he operates the printing office.

Mr. SLEMP. You do not really need $750,000 to do this work during this fiscal year?

Mr. HOWELL. We estimate now from the best figures available that we will need $750,000 to take care of the printing during the present fiscal year, but not at this particular time. We could wait until the next session of Congress if it were not for that particular law.

The CHAIRMAN. Suppose this law were not in effect, and you were permitted to go on and expend your appropriation just as you pleased, what would be the state of the account at the end of the fiscal year

Mr. HOWELL. The chances are that our account would probably have $490,000 worth of work over there and the Public Printer would deliver us something like $300,000 worth. That is, working on the basis of last year's figures, because last year at the end of December, the printing office had rendered bills covering work completed and delivered amounting to $299,017.86, and estimated that the unbilled work amounted to $195,467.56, or a total of billed and unbilled work of $494,485.42..

The CHAIRMAN. So that, as a matter of fact, it would not make any difference what the law was, you would go on and spend $150,000 more than the amount appropriated ?

Mr. HOWELL. We will require a deficiency, but we can not gauge it accurately at this time. We can not say whether it will be $150,000, $200,000, or only $100,000, because, as I have said, we have this committee on forms and blanks at work, and there has been a decrease in the cost of paper.

Mr. KELLEY. While you are putting the burden of the request for a deficiency appropriation on an act of Congress, yet you estimate that if there were no act you would go on and spend the $150,000 additional.

Mr. HOWELL. What I meant to say was this, that we would not require any deficiency just at this particular time if it were not for that act of Congress. If it were not for that act of Congress we could wait until we could make a more accurate estimate.

The CHAIRMAN. I think you came before the subcommittee on Post Offices, of which I was the chairman, and stated that $600,000 was all you needed.

Mr. HOWELL. No, sir; that was in the sundry civil bill.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there anything else you care to say?

Mr. HOWELL. We are in a very precarious situation now, and we have not a dollar that we can use for printing.

The CHAIRMAN. Sometimes that might be a good thing.

Mr. HOWELL. Not for our service that is serving 100,000,000 people and operating 24 hours a day.

The CHAIRMAN. We are trying to serve the people, but you who are spending the money do not take the people into consideration at all.

Mr. HOWELL. Mr. Chairman, the fact that we have appointed this committee on forms and blanks and effected a saving of $140,000 last year proves I think that we are doing everything we can to curtail expenditures in the matter of printing and binding.

The CHAIRMAN. We can only judge of your economies by the number of deficiencies you ask.

• THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 10, 1921.

DEPARTMENT OF STATE.

STATEMENT OF MR. WILBUR J. CARR, DIRECTOR, CONSULAR

SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF STATE.

HAIRMAN that you For 10

SALARIES OF INTERPRETERS TO EMBASSIES AND LEGATIONS, 1916.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Carr, you have an item on page 74 of the bill which indicates that you have a deficiency for 1916 amounting to $1,000. The item reads, “For 10 student interpreters at the Embassy of Turkey,” etc. Do you mean 10 students at $1,000 each?

Mr. CARR. No, sir; it is a $1,000 item, belonging to the regular appropriation for 1916 for interpreters to embassies and legations.

The CHAIRMAN. Tell us about that item. Mr. CARR. The circumstances are that on December 15, 1915, our ambassador at Constantinople drew upon the Secretary of State for $1,000 on account of salaries to be paid to the student interpreter attached to his embassy. The original draft was purchased by a private individual over there. In those days there were no banking facilities, so that they sold drafts to whomever would buy them. The person who purchased this draft went into the interior of Turkey and eventually lost the draft. Meanwhile the unexpended balance of the appropriation reverted to the Treasury in accordance with the law.

The CHAIRMAN. This $1,000 was deposited with the Government service and the person who made the deposit asked for a draft and it was issued ?

Mr. CARR. No. The operation is this: All of our officers abroad, in order to pay the salaries of their subordinates, draw upon the Secretary of State for the money. They sell the draft to a bank and out of the proceeds pay the consular salaries. In this case, however, instead of selling the draft.to a bank-banking facilities then being very limited—the embassy sold it to an individual; the individual lost it. Since then a duplicate of that draft has reached the department but the appropriation had meanwhile reverted to the Treasury.

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