The CHAIRMAN. In what respect?

Mr. CARR. Not with respect to subsistence in the District of Columbia, of course, but with respect to personal services in the District. This is a phrase which was copied from the appropriation made for the present conference on limitation of armaments.

The CHAIRMAN. We did that advisedly here, because we did not want to embarrass the administration in any way in connection with the disarmament conference, but ordinarily we do not think that is a good practice.

Mr. CARR. Assuming that you have no objection to the proposed detailed expenditures in the statement on page 78, I do not imagine it would make any difference if personal services in the District of Columbia were omitted. I am unable to recall precisely what the imitation is which gave rise to that provision in the conference appropriation.

Mr. KELLEY. It is the language, "actual and necessary traveling and subsistence expenses, notwithstanding the provisions of any other act," that you refer to, which means a limitation of $4 a day.

Mr. CARR. Of course, if you put the regular limitation upon the necessary traveling and subsistence expenses for this arbitration, then you impair the ability of the Secretary to accomplish the purpose of this appropriation, because it is evident that an agent, counsel, clerks, and others can not go over to London or The Hague and live on the amount which the regular statutes provide, $4 or $5 a day. Our consular inspectors are given by Congress $8 a day, and that is inadequate for them. Members of an arbitration commission can not live upon any such allowance. Moreover, we must pay the expenses of the arbitrators and we could hardly place a limit upon their manner of living, especially where two will be foreign subjects of note and the expenses will be subject to agreement with the other arbitrating Government.

The CHAIRMAN. "No money appropriated by any other act shall be used during the fiscal year 1922 for the employment and payment of personal services by the Department of State in the District of Columbia." That is what you are trying to avoid?

Mr. CARR. We do not want to use this for employing anybody in the Department of State. My understanding is that this provision "notwithstanding the provisions of any other act," has no reference to actual and necessary travel and subsistence expenses, and if that comma were taken out after the word "expenses," it would convey the exact meaning that I have in mind.

The CHAIRMAN. If you took the comma out, it would permit you to enlarge the amount allowed for travel expenses?

Mr. CARR. Yes, sir; for this particular purpose, and it seems to me that it is very necessary because you can not expect anybody going abroad upon a mission of this kind to live on four or five dollars per day at the present time. A man occupying the position that these men will occupy could not do that.

The CHAIRMAN. I suppose that is true, and that would be true in the case of these other arbitrators. What do you think would be a fair allowance?

It would depend on a great

Mr. CARR. I would hesitate to say. many things, and would vary with the position of the individual.

The CHAIRMAN. You have left the comma out of the other provision?

Mr. CARR. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. We ought to put a limit in there, because if we do not put a limit somewhere, they could go on and spend anything they liked.

Mr. Wood. Why not limit it to the actual traveling expense?
Mr. KELLEY. That is in there.

The CHAIRMAN. It is the subsistence expenses that we are fearful about. The traveling expenses are limited by the amount they have

to pay.

Mr. CARR. If we have an agent in London with counsel and a secretary, we would want them to live, I take it, in a dignified manner. Whether they could do that on $10 per day or whether the cost would be $25 per day, I am unable to say.

The CHAIRMAN. The cost would not be as much there as here.

Mr. CARR. No, sir; not as much there as here. I think it would be less.

The CHAIRMAN. You have the other proviso in here, "To be immediately available and to continue available until expended."

Mr. HUSTED. Why could they not pay a part of their subsistence expenses out of their salaries? Are the salaries liberal enough to enable them to do that?

The CHAIRMAN. The compensation of the agent is $10,000 and that of the counsel is $7,500. The others range all the way down to $2,500.

Mr. HUSTED. The man receiving $10,000 might contribute a little something toward his subsistence.

The CHAIRMAN. Will all these men be Americans?

Mr. CARR. Yes, sir. The agent in the Norwegian case is Mr. William C. Dennis, and Mr. Frederick McKinney is the agent in the Landreau case. These expenses are made up on the basis of a number of previous arbitrations that have taken place, and the estimate is very conservative when compared with previous arbitrations.

Mr. KELLEY. These cases will not require a very long time, will they?

Mr. CARR. The Norwegian case must be submitted within nine months after the signing, and the other case must be submitted within three months after the other side presents its case, and the decision must be rendered within two months after the close of the argument on both sides. Our agent would be there only during the presentation of the case and the arguments.

The CHAIRMAN. They would prepare the work here?

Mr. CARR. Yes, sir; they would prepare the work here, so that the length of time during which they would carry on the work over there would be comparatively short. Just how long it would be I do not know. It would depend altogether on how much time must be taken with the arguments, and the developments from the arguments on both sides.

The CHAIRMAN. It would not be more than a month?

Mr. CARR. I do not think it would be a month; certainly not in excess of two months. I think you might very safely trust that to the department without limitation. That has always been done in the past, and there has never been any abuse, so far as I know. The

department can easily insure economy on the part of the American delegation, but of course it can not venture to regulate the expenses of the court.

INTERNATIONAL LATITUDE OBSERVATORY AT UKIAH, CALIF.

The CHAIRMAN. You have an estimate of $2,000 for the maintenance of the International Latitude Observatory at Ukiah, Calif.

Mr. CARR. In pursuance of two resolutions of Congress, we entered into an agreement to become a member of what is known as the International Geodetic Association a number of years ago. We contributed to that association until the war began. The association established in this country a latitude observatory at Gaithersburg, Md., and another one at Ukiah, Calif., and they maintained those observatories at an expense amounting to considerably more than our contribution to the association. Then the war came on, and, as the seat of the association was at Berlin, the Allied Governments took over the observatory stations within their boundaries. We took over the one at Ukiah and closed the one at Gaithersburg, Md., for lack of funds. Japan took over her's and Italy took over her's. Now, since the war the allied nations have established what they call the International Geodetic and Geophysical Union, and they propose to take over into that union this International Geodetic Association.

Dr. Walcott, the president of the National Academy of Sciences, asked the department to estimate for this again this year and again next year, with the understanding that by or before the end of the fiscal year 1923 they will have covered this association, or what remains of it, into the International Geodetic and Geophysical Union, when the Government's contribution for the maintenance of the Ukiah Station will cease. They consider that station to be an important thing to continue. It has proved to be very useful in checking up with the chain of other stations maintained the correctness of latitude observations. Now, they have discovered also that this Ukiah Station is of value in detecting certain crustal movements in California, which possibly involve the city of San Francisco, and by continuing the observations at this station they hope to be able to predict with some precision the occurrence of earthquakes on the Pacific slope. Dr. Walcott regards the continuance of this contribution as very valuable, and so does the International Research Council.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there a resolution of Congress authorizing it? Mr. CARR. There is a resolution of Congress authorizing us to enter into this association and to become a member of it, which of course involves payment of contributions. We paid our annual contributions to the Geodetic Association down to the middle of the war, and then Congress authorized the quotas to be diverted to the maintenance of Ukiah Station.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you be kind enough to put a reference to the resolutions in the record for our information?

Mr. CARR. Yes, sir; I will. The joint resolutions of Congress approved February 5, 1889, and July 23, 1894.

The CHAIRMAN. Was this asked for in the last diplomatic and consular appropriation bill?

Mr. CARR. No; not in the last bill. We have been asking for it annually, but for this current year we did not. We thought it was going to be supported by the National Research Council; we thought we, along with other allied and associated Governments, would terminate our membership because of its German origin and let the council take it over, but they tell us now they are not ready to take it over. The CHAIRMAN. How is it being maintained now?

Mr. CARR. It is being maintained, I think, with the contributions which have been made by several scientific bodies.

The CHAIRMAN. Is it likely that they have enough of an unexpended balance to continue for the balance of this year without having a deficiency appropriation?

Mr. CARR. I feel quite certain they have not. My information is that they can not in any event maintain the station more than two or three months longer without an appropriation.

The CHAIRMAN. These are very unpopular things on deficiency appropriation bills.

Mr. CARR. I know they are, sir; and no one dislikes them more than I do, but this amount is merely that necessary to protect, as it were, the investment the Government has been making for more than 20 years until a financially able institution is able to take over the support of the station and relieve the Government of further expenditure.

WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 9, 1921.

UNITED STATES VETERANS' BUREAU.

VOCATIONAL REHABILITATION.

STATEMENTS OF COL. C. R. FORBES, DIRECTOR; COL. ROBERT U. PATTERSON, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, MEDICAL DIVISION; R. C. ROUTSONG, BUDGET OFFICER; DR. H. S. CUMMING, SURGEON GENERAL; AND DR. C. H. LAVINDER, ASSISTANT SURGEON GENERAL, PUBLIC HEALTH SERVICE.

The CHAIRMAN. Col. Forbes, you are before the committee with a request for a little over $120,000,000 ?

Col. FORBES. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Your appropriation for vocational training is what?

Col. FORBES. $77,257,000.

The CHAIRMAN. The appropriation was $65,000,000 for the current fiscal year, plus the unexpended balances for the fiscal years 1920 and 1921. I do not know how much they amounted to. Do you?

Col. FORBES. No; I do not, Mr. Chairman. The amount involved. in unpaid encumbrances was not given to us when we took over the Federal board.

The CHAIRMAN. I wish you would make a complete detailed statement in your own way as to what the necessity for this additional appropriation is, how you proceed to determine when a man is entitled to vocational training, the conditions under which he is entitled to training, what compensation is allowed while he is under

training; the length of time that he is allowed to be in training, if there is any limit to it; what happens when he goes through the training, whether the Government's obligation ceases; and any other information you may have that will be of interest and give us the knowledge and experience that will enable us to intelligently treat the subject before us.

GENERAL STATEMENT.

Col. FORBES. Vocational training is provided for under the vocational act. It was administered by the Federal Board for Vocational Training previous to the bureau taking over that responsibility. The organization which administered the act was known as the Rehabilitation Division of the Federal Board for Vocational Training.

A man to receive vocational training must have a physical handicap. With a handicap of less than 10 per cent he is not entitled to compensation. With a physical handicap of over 10 per cent he is entitled to hospitalization, compensation, or vocational rehabilitation.

The CHAIRMAN. Please tell us how you reach the conclusion that he is classed as 10 per cent disabled?

Col. FORBES. That is statutory, fixed by the law, by the original war risk act.

The CHAIRMAN. Who determines when he is 10 per cent disabled, the law does not ?

Col. FORBES. The physicians determine his disability. A man, when he is found to have a vocational handicap and his physical disability does not prevent him from taking a training, instead of going to the hospital, he is sent to a training school, and then re ceives, as vocational maintenance, $100 a month, plus the allow ances for dependents, or a maximum of $170 a month. In compensation he is rated dependent upon the degree of his disability. If 10 per cent he gets $8 a month, and so on. His maximum for a permanent total is $100 a month or for a temporary total $80 a month, plus allowances for his dependents. It is rather regrettable that the pay for dependents is not the same in compensation as it is in vocational maintenance. The dependents of men receiving vocational training receive a higher allowance. At the present time we have approximately 100,000 men receiving vocational training. We have approximately 440,000 men who have made application for vocational training. As to compensation and to hospitalization, by the terms of the Sweet bill, any man who suffers with tuberculosis or a neuropsychiatric disease, after a period of two years from the time he left the military service, he is presumed to have incurred his disability in the line of duty.

The CHAIRMAN. After a period of two years?

Col. FORBES. Yes, sir. A great many men, after the passage of the Sweet bill, came under that category.

We have at the present time 30,000 men in the hospitals who are in the majority of cases receiving compensation. That does not mean, however, that every inmate of a Government or a contract hospital receives compensation, because men are hospitalized awaiting diagnosis, and when diagnosed the compensation is fixed. A great many men enter the hospitals who are there for a period of