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your own hogs down there? The State institutions make money out of that.

Col. W ADSWORTH. Yes, sir; we have investigated that. At least three different branches in the past we have tried the hog proposition. We tried it more successfully in California than at any other place, and that was kept up for several years, but was abandoned about 1912 or 1913. That was our last project, and the thing that broke down there was practically the same thing that broke down elsewhere, and that is the disease that got among our herds and put us out of business. It flourished for a time.

Mr. Woon. That was your own fault, because an ounce of prevention would have prevented that.

Col. WADSWORTH. That may or may not have been. I do not know what brought it about, but it got there and got into our other herds at different times, and it was not found that we could handle that proposition because while our garbage would keep up a certain part of it we were required to buy expensive feeds to finish off all our hogs and to handle them properly.

Mr. Woon. I should think that would be true in California but not in the grain-raising sections of the country.

Col. WADSWORTH. As I say, it was a very expensive proposition but we made money on it for awhile.

Mr. Wood. Every State institution in our section is doing that and they are making money out of it.

Col. Wadsworth. I was an inspector for 10 years of all the State homes in the United States, and during that period I was in touch with the State homes and some of them made money and continued to make money, but in the end it developed down to the men who actually had the management of the matter. If he had the general savvy and ability to handle it, he got away with it, but there were more losses that came under my observation during that period of 10 years than there were cases where they continued to make money.

Ńr. Sissox. I think that is literally true. It is the fellow at the head of the thing rather than the hog. The hog is not at fault.

Col. WadswORTH. But a man who may be a very fine man as superintendent of a home is not necessarily going to make a success with hogs. We have found that we can buy most of these things cheaper than we can develop them ourselves.

Mr. Sisson. Is that true of your vegetables ?

Col. WADSWORTH. We do considerable gardening at places where we have conditions that are right, and the most advantageous place we have, of course, is in California, and there we produce vast quantities of vegetables because we have nine months out of the year for vegetable farming.

Nearly all of the products we can buy cheaper than we can produce them.

The CHAIRMAN, I think that is true.

Col. W'ADSWORTH. We have an organization that runs like all other Government institutions, eight hours, and you can not farm on an 8-hour proposition. We can not keep a force that will take care of the harvest on an 8-hour basis without it absorbing all of the profits on the crop.

Mr. Sisson. You are absolutely right about that.

pay them.

Mr. Woop. Do you not think it would be a good thing to have your farming done by the inmates of your home? There are plenty of men who can do some work and it would be beneficial to them, and in some of these institutions they give them a little pay for it.

Col. WADSWORTH. We

Mr. WOOD. So as to make it an inducement. There is not anything in the world that is better for a T. B. than to go out and get a little exercise.

Col. WADSWORTH. I agree thoroughly with you, but it is absolutely impossible for you to expect any labor whatever from a T. B. under the present gradation of opinion that has been established by the medical societies throughout the country. The T. B. must have a rest, a complete rest, and that is what they are fighting for all along the line. We can not expect any result. Furthermore, you have one other proposition, the older T. B.'s, the men of the Spanish-American War and the Civil War—there is not very much work for them. The T. B.'s who come in from the present war draw compensation from $80 to $140 a month, and you can fancy whether or not they will work.

SOUTHERN BRANCHI, HAMPTON, VA.

CURRENT EXPENSES.

The CHAIRMAN. On page 94, for the item, “ Southern Branch, Hampton, Va.: Current expenses,” you had, in 1921, $54,671.26, and in 1922 you estimated for $58.000. You receive $50,000, and you have come back for the $8,000 ?

Col. W'ADSWORTH. Exactly, sir.
The CHAIRMAX. Please tell us why you come back for the $8,000!

Col. W'ADSWORTH. Our running expenses indicate the exact expenditure that would require a deficiency of $7,635.91, just to maintain the service on the basis at the time we submitted the estimate and as we have it now.

The Chairman. Have you more or less people to provide for than you had when you submitted the estimate!

Col. W'ADSWORTH. Practically the same; but the current expenses are an overhead charge that pay for the salaries of all the officers that are engaged in discipline and managing and receiving and handling the supplies. The expense is not directly influenced by an increase or decrease in the general membership.

The CHAIRMAX. Be kind enough to tell us by months, say, starting from the 1st of January, how many patients of all classes, including hospitalization patients, separating them, if you can, you have at the Southern Branch.

Col. W'ADSWORTH. I do not think that I have the figures; I have only the figures for the recent months,

The CHAIRMAN. Give us what you have.

Col. WADSWORTH. I have only the month of October. On October 31 we had at the Southern Branch in the sick hospital quarters 624 people, and the total present was 1,637. The CHAIRMAX. How does that compare!

Col. WADSWORTH. That does not vary greatly. Perhaps during January, February, March, and April we probably exceeded that by 100 or 200, and probably during July we may have been under that.

The CHAIRMAN. This is the overhead charge for all the officers and noncommissioned officers, etc.- bookbinders, librarians, musicians, etc.?

Col. WADSWORTH. That is the fixed overhead running expenses and, as I said, would not be influenced greatly by the increase of two or three hundred, or a decrease of two or three hundred, for that period.

The CHAIRMAN. You are not paying any higher rates of pay?

Col. WapSWORTH. No, sir; we have not increased our personnel over, possibly, a little on the guards. We have considerable water front and it is necessary to throw out a little more precaution, and that would be the only item which we had gone over on.

NUMBER OF INMATES.

The CHAIRMAN. On June 30, 1920, I see you reported that you had an average present of 648?

Col. W ADSWORTH. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. How does that compare?

Col. WADSWORTH. That is only one-third of what we have now. The history of that is this: In the fall of 1918 the Army asked us and the board of managers turned over by congressional authority the Southern Branch, to be used as an emergency hospital. In No. vember we moved everybody away from there, and in April of 1920 we moved them back, those we wanted to go back, and we started to reopen it. The Army kept it for 18 months. On June 30, 19:20, we only had 600.

TheCHAIRMAX. Six hundred and forty-eight?

Col. W'ADSWORTH. Or whatever the figure may be. Consequently for the previous year we had nothing to go on; we built it up during this last year.

The CHAIRMAN. It is your opinion that you can not get along successfully for the fiscal vear unless you get the $8,000?

Col. WADSWORTH. Absolutetly, sir. "Our service can not be maintained at the standard, the standard we think it should be, with short of the amount of money that we have submitted.

TELEPHONE AND TELEGRAPH SERVICE.

Mr. Sisson. I notice that you have submitted an estimate for 1922 for telephone and telegraph service, etc., of $200, and that you expended in 1921 $1,756.14?

('ol. W’ADSWORTH. Yes, sir.
Mr. Sisson. What is the cause of that great difference?

('ol. WadswORTII. The cause of that difference is that conditions have changed somewhat. At the time the estimate was made up the home had been handling its own telephone system, had its own inside system, and this estimate was prepared just when it came back from the Army. This estimate had to be prepared before the 1st of August a year ago. It had not taken shape then so that we could get at the expenditures for the year; in the end we had to spend a great deal more.

The CHAIRMAX. You had to take over the whole thing?

Col. WADSWORTH. Yes, sir; and to rebuild a great deal that we did not know we had to rebuild.

Mr. Sisson. That looks like a pretty lively telephone bill, $1,756:14.

Col. WADSWORTH. That, you must understand, is the telephone bill for the entire branch. We have intercommunicating stations throughout the branch, probably 50 or 60 stations, and it is necessary for the fire stations, going from one company building to another and the hospital, with the headquarters and various service buildings. We have on the ground about 65 to 70 buildings with such communication.

Mr. Sisson. How much does the outside telegraph and telephone cost?

Col. WADSWORTH. We have very little long distance, but we maintain trunk lines down town there, and that outside line last year probably cost us from $75 to $100.

Nr. Sisson. How do you distinguish between the outside messages and paying your maintenance ?

Col. WADSWORTH. That is entirely different. Our outside longdistance messages must be vouchered as a separate proposition.

Mr. Sissox. They would be paid for out of your funds!

Col. WADSWORTH. Yes, sir; that would be separate. Our service inside would be the upkeep of the line, the telephone operators, and things of that kind.

The CHAIRMAN. You charge only for the personnel and the upkeep?

Col. WADSWORTH. Yes, sir.

EFFECTS OF DECEASED MEMBERS.

MTBO DELARIE

66

Mr. ANTHONY. What is the necessity of the proviso on page 94: “Provided, That all receipts on account of the effects of deceased members during the fiscal year shall also be available for such payments; and for such other expenditures as can not properly be included under other heads of expenditure”?

Col. WADSWORTH. We consider, under the law, that the effects of deceased members who do not sign an agreement to turn over to the home their effects, if they die without heirs or without having a will, are turned in and taken up under the head of current expenses,” and that provision was put in so that “current expenses might profit by that to the extent of using the amount of money that we would take up for the payment of like claims. We can not use that for any purpose, except for the payment of that class of claims.

Mr. ANTHONY. But you could certainly use it under the language of this proviso for any expenditures that you please?

Col. W'ADSWORTH. The comptroller has held to the contrary.

Mr. ANTHONY. It says: “And for such other expenditures as can not properly be included under other heads of expenditure.”

(ol. W'ADSWORTH. That is “ current expenses"; that the general appropriation. The only benefit that we could get out of that is the payment of like claims. If we have a man die here this year, or 100 men, and they have $10,000 we take that up in “current expenses," and we may pay a man who dies this year or last year out of the “ current expenses."

Mr. ANTHONY. When heirs prove up their claims?
Col. WADSWORTH. Then this money is paid un«ler this head.

Mr. ANTHONY. Why have this authority ?

Col. W'ADSWORTI. I'hat is in accordance with the ruling of the comptroller.

Mr. Wood. What class of heirs are entitled to this fund?

Col. WADSWORTH. Any heirs who would be qualified under the law where the branch is situated.

Mr. Sisson. That is the money that he has in his pocket?
Col. WADSWORTH. Yes, sir.

SUBSISTENCE.

The CHAIRMAN. The next item is “ Subsistence." For 1922 you had $210,000 and expended in 1921 $266,338.74. You estimated for $253,000. The difference between $253,000 and $210,000 would be the $43,000 which you are asking for?

Col. WADSWORTH. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. The same condition applies here in respect to the necessity for this increased appropriation?

Col. WADSWORTH. Yes, sir. Our expenditures at the Southern Branch for the first six months on supplies that we have actually expended is $111,249.21, and the incumbrances, the estimate for the next six months, brings us short $43,446.06, and we are asking for $43,000.

The CHAIRMAN. This is something you must have?

Col. Wadsworth. This is a subsistence." It is absolutely necessary to keep up the service to its present standard if we maintain the home as we think it should be maintained.

Gen. Woon. The large increase in the number of hospital patients there is one of the reasons that we have asked this deficiency, because we have so many more hospital patients than we anticipated at the time this appropriation was made.

Col. WaDsWORTH. The difference between the hospital patient and the man in the barracks runs from 7 cents to 15 cents a day. At the Southern Branch we have been carrying 640 hospital men against 300, so we might figure that we have 300 to 340 men on a difference of 7 to 15 cents a day.

The CHAIRMAN. Åbout 12 cents?

Col. WaDSWORTH. I should say that it would average from 10 to 12 cents. So you can get a line on why the expenses have gone up. We have been purchasing the food cheaper than we did last year.

The (CHAIRMAX. After all, it is a thing that you must have?

Col. W'ADSWORTH. We can not save on that. We have adjusted the service; we are not feeding an extravagant ration or overfeeding. but we are furnishing a good ration. One of the things that makes it very expensive in that locality is that the old men, who have increased in number, are very largely milk patients, and there we pay 48 cents for the milk.

The CHAIRMAN. As I understand, the cost of a medical patient at the home is 29 cents.

Col. WADSWORTH. That is at the Central Branch. You have a list there of the cost at each branch of the home. That is all itemized. We differentiate between the ordinary mess, the hospital mess, and the tubercular mess; they are set out at each one of the branches.

The CHAIRMAN. That is in the record!

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