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GENERAL STATEMENT OF MR. CARREL.

Mr. CARREL. Mr. Chairman, I am an economic advisor attached to the Latin American Division of the State Department.

I have visited the South American countries on private business a number of times, including Brazil, being in that country six different times, so I know something of the general conditions in Brazil and other South American countries, particularly as affecting the commercial relations of the United States with those countries, and I think I have had impressed upon me the importance of our paying particular attention to those relations and to fostering our commercial intercourse with South America, and have been particularly impressed with the fact that the people of the South American countries attach more importance possibly than we do in this country to the exchange of courtesies and to some show in connection with undertakings such as this.

Just as a general outline of the situation with reference to the proposed exposition, I might say that in June last the Government of Brazil sent a formal invitation to the Government of the United States to participate in a centennial exposition to be held in Rio de Janeiro, beginning the 7th of September, 1922, and extending through September, October, and November,

The invitation of this Government to participate mentioned as desirable exhibits relating to farming, cattle raising, fisheries, mining, mechanical industries, transportation, communication, commerce, science, and fine arts, with special emphasis upon forestry and manufacturing industries.

As the gentlemen probably know, Brazil is in a state of development at the present time that possibly compares with the situation in the United States 30 or 40 years ago, and this vast country, in which are produced all sorts of raw products, is susceptible to the development of industries of many kinds in which they are going to require all sorts of machinery, tools, and equipment manufactured in other countries. For that reason not only manufacturers in the United States but also those of Europe and Japan are very much interested in getting a strong foothold in the market, so as to supply Brazil's large needs.

This coming centennial celebration in Brazil is intended to celebrate the one hundredth anniversary of the establishment of the independent Government of the United States of Brazil. The United States of America, in 1876, celebrated, at Philadelphia, by means of a similar centennial exposition, the one hundredth anniversary of the birth of our Republic. To that celebration all nations of the world were invited and a great deal of the success of our own centennial celebration in Philadelphia in 1876 was due to the liberality with which foreign Governments participated, and Brazil was one of the principal foreign participants at that exposition. Dom Pedro, the Emperor of Brazil at that time, was, I am told, the only head of a foreign Government to attend, and a Brazilian manof-war the only foreign naval vessel to visit the port for the celebration.

Brazil's experience at that exposition, the resulting ties of friendship between the Brazilian people and the people of the United

States; the benefits to commercial intercourse between Brazil and the United States were such as to serve as an incentive to Brazil in participating in subsequent expositions in the United States. It took part in the Foreign Exposition in Boston in 1883; in the Industrial and Cotton Exposition in New Orleans in 1884-5; in the World's Fair, Chicago, in 1893; at the Pan-American Exposition at Buffalo, 1901; in the Louisiana Purchase Exposition at St. Louis in 1904; in the Ter-Centennial Exposition at Jamestown in 1907; and in the Pan-American Pacific Exposition, San Francisco, in 1915.

Brazil has cordially responded to these many invitations which we have extended to her, and by her participation and by her expenditures there has always helped us make them a success. The available data as to the cost of her exhibit at the St. Louis Exposition shows that she spent no less than $600,000 there.

After the exposition was over the Government of Brazil took her magnificent exposition building and transported it from St. Louis to Rio de Janeiro, where it was erected on one of the principal avenues as a permanent structure, which is now used as the home of the Brazilian Congress, and is known as the Monroe Palace, in honor of our President Monroe and in recognition by the people of Brazil of the Monroe doctrine. In the immediate vicinity of this building. which is entirely in keeping with its surroundings, are some of the finest public buildings in Brazil's capital, which has a population. by the way, of 1,500,000. I refer to the Palace of Justice, the national opera house, the national library, and other similar monuments of architectural beauty. Just recently the Brazilian Government has floated a loan in the United States of $12,000,000, the proceeds from which are to be utilized in preparing sites and buildings for this coming centennial exposition.

Within a couple of blocks of this Monroe Palace will be the main entrance to the exposition grounds. Passing through the entrance, the first buildings, on a wide avenue overlooking the wonderful harbor of Rio de Janeiro, will be the buildings of the foreign Governments which participate. One of the principal sites has been set aside for the United States Government. Great Britain, Belgium, Portugal, Japan, France, and others will be represented. It has been reported that the British Government has planned a building to cost £100,000 sterling The United States Government building. located in so conspicuous a place, along with those of other foreign Governments, and within sight of the Monroe Palace, which was Brazil's building at the St. Louis Exposition, must be in keeping with its surroundings. An American engineering firm in Rio de Janeiro has gratuitously made an estimate of the amount that should be spent for the United States building and equipment of $500,000.

ULTIMATE DISPOSITION OF BUILDING,

We have been told that a private concern in Rio de Janeiro has already suggested that at the end of the exposition it would be willing to take over this building for their own use; that is, purchase it from the United States. As Mr. Carr has stated, it was also sug. gested in the Committee on Industrial Arts and Expositions that probablyethe building might be used as quarters for the embassy in Brazil. · The CHAIRMAX. That could not be done. It would have to be torn down and reconstructed.

Mr. CARREL. Also, that the consulate general and the American Club might be housed there.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the club?
Mr. CARREL. I mean the American Chamber of Commerce.
Mr. Sisson. That is a private institution?

Mr. CARREL. If housed in the building, of course, it would be required to pay rental. Those are merely passing suggestions that have originated from different persons interested in the success of American representation in Brazil, not from the State Department.

Mr. Sisson. I do not suppose anybody seriously contemplates that the Federal Government is going to rent quarters to private people.

Mr. CARREL. I merely mentioned that as illustrating the fact that the building need not necessarily be torn down and constitute a total loss after it has served its purpose as an exposition building. It is in a central location, near the business part of the city, and probably can be utilized for other purposes.

GOVERNMENTS WHICH WILL ERECT BUILDINGS,

Mr. Byrxs. You say that Great Britain is going to erect a builting. Is there any intimation that other Governments will erect buildings?

Mr. CARREL. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. What other Governments ? Mr. CARREL. We have been told that the Japanese have selected a site and that the Belgian Government has also selected a site.

TITLE TO LAND,

Mr. ANTHONY Does the Brazilian Government just give us the right to erect the building or does it give us the land if we are going to erect a permanent building?

Mr. CARREL. A great many details of this kind in connection with our exhibit that also have occurred to us have not been worked out and it will be impossible to work them out until the Government is authorized to spend some money and can employ a man experienced in planning exhibits to work them out.

Mr. Sisson. Of course, you can not acquire the land under any corcumstances without a specific act of Congress, because there is another act which prevents you from doing it.

Mr. CARREL. If you will remember, in connection with the Paris exposition, the money that was used for that exposition was obtained from various appropriations. An appropriation of a few hundred thousand dollars was originally made and then it was discovered that that was insufficient and another appropriation was made, and from time to time additional appropriations were made, until the total amount appropriated by Congress and used for the Paris exposition was something in the neighborhood of $1,500,000.

KEEPING WITHIN APPROPRIATION.

The CHAIRMAX. What is contemplated in this case-is it to be confined to $1,000,000 ?

Mr. CARREL. It is intended that $1,000,000 shall cover all expenses. Mr. Sisson. Will it? Mr. CARREL. That is the intention. The CHAIRMAN. That is the limit of the authority. Mr. CARR. It must cover it. Mr. CARREL. You will find that upon the recommendation of the Secretary of State the House fixed the limitation and Congress in passing the resolution provided that the expenditures shall be controlled by the Secretary of State.

Mr. Sisson. So this committee, Congress, and the country can understand that positively $1,000,000 is as much as the United States Government will expend?

Mr. CARREL. I would say so.

Mr. Sisson. And it will not be necessary to have any deficiency to cover any obligation incurred by the management so as to force the Government to appropriate more than $1,000,000 ?

Mr. Carr. The position of the Secretary of State in regard to these matters is that when he asks for an appropriation of this character and gives his word to Congress that it is not going to be exceeded he proposes to see that it is not exceeded. There is no doubt about the correctness of that statement. Mr. Hughes is working in cooperation with Gen. Dawes-

Mr. Sisson (interposing). If Secretary Hughes does that, he will set a magnificent precedent for future Cabinet officers and future administrations. If he is iron-handed enough or steel-handed enough to see that the other departments, the War and Navy Departments and other activities, shall not indirectly have any more money than this $1,000,000, he will be entitled to a vote of thanks and a medal of honor.

Mr. CARR. If you appropriate $1,000,000 for this expense, I will guarantee that Secretary Hughes will not permit it to be exceeded.

Mr. Sisson. I was not referring especially to Secretary Hughes, but I want to know about the others.

Mr. Carr. I think I can guarantee that the President will not permit anybody else to ask for more money.

Mr. CARREL. That is the reason we have adopted this plan of arriv. ing at the amount. We have not considered it advisable or in the interest of economy to go around among the various departments and build up the estimate item by item, thereby arriving at an amount away beyond the limit that should be placed upon it. For that reason we have fixed the limit of $1,000,000.

CHARACTER OF BUILDING CONSTRUCTION.

The CHAIRMAX. Does anybody know about the character of this building construction?

Mr. CARREL. No, sir; not definitely enough to make a statement, as we have as yet had no means of making a definite plan for it.

The CHAIRMAX. I suppose it will be of stucco?

Mr. CARREL. A steel-frame structure was mentioned in connection with it. It will probably be a steel-frame building, but, as I have said, those details as to the exact style of the building, the plans, and the material of which it is to be built are things that must be worked out by some one experienced in those matters, and such a man we have been unable to obtain and will be unable to obtain until we have authority to pay him. As I was about to say, as a basis for comparison in fixing the amount required, we have used the figures covering expenditures at the Paris Exposition in 1900, totaling $1,472,500; the United States Government exhibit at the San Francisco Exposition in 1917 of $1,174,000; and Brazil's expenditures at the St. Louis Exposition of over $600,000. And considering the fact that the cost of materials, transportation, wages, and practically every other item involved is much higher to-day than at the time of those expositions, we feel that the amount asked for in this case is very reasonable.

The United States Government has taken part only once in an exposition in Brazil, and that was merely by sending a commission there to represent it. It merely sent a commission to the Peruvian · Centennial Celebration, but this celebration was not an exposition and lasted but a few days. It merely sent a commission to represent it at the Buenos Aires Exposition in 1912, and only a few works of art. That was the subject of no little comment because of the meagerness of the participation as compared with that of other countries. In fact, the United States Government, except at the Paris Exposition, has not responded to invitations from foreign countries to take part in their expositions as they have responded to ours, and particularly is this true with reference to Brazil.

As to Brazil's importance among the nations-its territory is more extensive than that of the United States. It has a population of 25,000,000, and its capital, where the exposition is to be held, has a population of nearly 1,500,000, as compared with 600,000 at San Francisco, 1,700,000 for Philadelphia, 800,000 for St. Louis, and 400,000 for Washington. The population of the republic is greater than that of Belgium, Portugal, and Spain, compares favorably with that of France (39,600,000) and is more than half that of the United Kingdom (46,000,000). It is more than that of Canada and Mexico and is four times that of the Argentine Republic (7,800,000). Our exports to Brazil in 1911 were valued at $29,000,000; in 1920 at $156,740,365. Our imports from Brazil in 1911 were valued at $103,464,111 and in 1920 at $227,587,594, or nearly double in 10 years. Practically all this increase occurred during the period of the war.

Mr. Sisson. How much falling off has there been?
Mr. CARREL. That I do not know.

The principal points that should be borne in mind in connection with our participation in this exposition is that it should be in harmony with the dignity and wealth of our great Nation; as a matter of reciprocal courtesy it should be a fitting recognition of the liberality with which Brazil has many times respended to our invitations; and last but not least it should be such as to show to those engaged in commerce between Brazil and the United States not only Brazilian bankers and merchants, but also our own business interests, that it is the purpose of this Government to encourage and

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