ÆäÀÌÁö À̹ÌÁö
PDF
ePub

Mr. MCGINTY. That is all.

Mr. BYRNS. And the commission has other expenses in the way of rents, printing and binding, and things of that sort?

Mr. MCGINTY. Yes; but some of that comes under a separate appropriation.

Mr. BYRNS. You mean in addition to the appropriation of $1,900,000 ?

Mr. MCGINTY. Yes, sir.

Mr. KELLEY. I understood from Mr. McGinty that all the activities of the commission were covered under these bureaus ?

Mr. McGINTY. This covers the salaries, gentlemen, of all the employees of the commission that I spoke of here.

Mr. SISSON. Then it must follow that you asked for more dollars than you had salaries at that time?

Mr. MCGINTY. I know, but the additional money was to take care, just as was said by Mr. Byrns, of rents and other expenses of the commission.

Mr. SISSON. I thought your later statement confined it to salaries alone?

Mr. MCGINTY. If I may, I will put in the record our classified expenses for the last fiscal year and also a statement of what our expenditures, classified will be during the current year if we are permitted to proceed on the present basis.

Mr. SISSON. I notice the provision for your appropriation includes your per diem in lieu of subsistence and all other authorized expenses. It looks to me like you could spend it for almost anything on earth under that language. I do not know what you are restricted to because it says, "For all other authorized expenditures. The CHAIRMAN. Let me read that part of the act which covers the appropriation of $1,900,000:

[ocr errors]

For all other authorized expenditures necessary in the execution of laws to regulate commerce, including per diem in lieu of subsistence when allowed pursuant to section 13 of the sundry civil appropriation act approved August 1, 1914, $1,900,000, of which sum there may be expended not exceeding $50,000 in the employment of counsel, not exceeding $3,000 for necessary books, reports, and periodicals, not exceeding $100 in the open market for the purchase of office furniture, similar in class and kind to that listed in the General Supply Committee schedule, and not exceeding $120,000 for rent of buildings in the District of Columbia, provided that this appropriation shall not be available for rent of buildings in the District of Columbia if suitable space is provided by the Public Buildings Commission.

So that really it covers your rents, your salaries, the employment of counsel, etc.?

Mr. McGINTY. For the last fiscal year our pay roll was $1,527,014.28; transportation, $39,233.45; subsistence, $32,632.96; communication, $8,470.71; stenographic services, $57,614.89; other services, $24,335.23; stationery, $26,675.68; other supplies, $33,794.92; office furniture, $33,008.45; mechanical office equipment, $25,884.10; books, $2,980.05; other equipment, $12,454.52; rent of buildings, $74,350.49; other rents, $1,832.30; total for the year, $1,900,282.03. The CHAIRMAN. That was for last year?

Mr. McGINTY. That was for last year and gave us an unexpended balance of $199,717.97.

The CHAIRMAN. That was the year for which you had $2,100,000 available?

Mr. MCGINTY. Yes, sir.

Mr. SISSON. Referring to the item of subsistence, how much was that?

Mr. MCGINTY. $32,632.96.

Mr. SISSON. What does that include?

Mr. MCGINTY. That includes the per diem of $4 that we allow in lieu of subsistence, and for the commissioners and the attorney examiners, actual expenses basis, not exceeding $5 a day.

Mr. SISSON. It occurred to me that that was a pretty lively expense for that particular purpose. They must all live away from their place of residence.

Mr. MCGINTY. When I tell you that during the first six months of this year we had 821 formal complaints filed with the commission and that the commissioners and the examiners go out into the field to conduct the hearings, you will appreciate that there is considerable travel necessary. Some of these items may seem a little heavy, but I can explain that by the fact that, on a comparative basis, in December, 1919, we had a total of 593 employees at a total annual salary of $989,860; in September, 1920, we had 793 employees at $1,447,180; and in September, 1921, just passed, we had 926 employees at $1,785,870, and this increase was due to the transportation act. On the apportionment or allotment we probably have erred in that, but experience is our only teacher and we will not do it again. We will find out just how we should handle that and give you no further cause for complaint in this regard.

The CHAIRMAN. The principal thing that occurred to me was that whatever you might end up by doing, you at least ought to begin by obeying the law.

Mr. MCGINTY. We certainly intend to obey the law.

DEFICIENCY ESTIMATE.

The CHAIRMAN. Now tell us what you are going to do with this $300,000 and how you are going to apportion it, assuming you get the appropriation?

Mr. MCGINTY. I gave you a few moments ago the detail of expenditures for last year, and now I will give you exactly what the commission in conference decided it would need for this year, which is on the basis of our present activities:

Pay roll, $1,835,870; transportation, $50,933; subsistence, $44,332.

The CHAIRMAN. That is $12,000 more than last year?

Mr. McGINTY. Yes, because of the increase I gave you in employees a few moments ago.

Communication, $9,000.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that telegraphing and so forth?
Mr. MCGINTY. Yes.

Stenographic services, $88,396; other services, $25,000; stationery, $10,000.
You will notice there are tremendous drops here under last year.

Other supplies, $15,000; office furniture, $5,000; mechanical office equipment, $5,000.

The CHAIRMAN. Why do you need so much office furniture?

Mr. McGINTY. We needed it on account of the increase of employees last year, but you will see that expense is now practically down to nothing.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you get your furniture from the General Supply Committee?

Mr. McGINTY. Yes, sir.

Mr. SISSON. Did you get any of this furniture that the War Department put in storage all over the city here?

Mr. McGINTY. Oh, yes.

Mr. SISSON. Or did you buy absolutely new furniture?

Mr. McGINTY. We got the War Department and other used furniture. In this connection we made a wonderful record recently in moving our San Francisco valuation office to Washington, previously referred to. We did not bring a single desk or any furniture here, except a few pieces of filing furniture and, of course, our records. We turned the furniture over to another activity of the Government for use out there and they gave us the same things here, and we got a Government transport that was coming this way to haul the file cases and records, so the move did not cost us anything.

Mr. GALLIVAN. What is the increase in the stenographers' bill? Mr. MCGINTY. From $57,000 to $88,000, an increase of $31,000. That is due to the fact of an increase in the rates. We were paying 42 cents per page for an original and two carbon copies, a total of three. The reporters who had it at that figure declined to do the work during the ensuing fiscal year, which is the current fiscal year, so we had to let it out for contract again.

Mr. GALLIVAN. This stenographers' bill is all incurred in the field and not in Washington. You have your own stenographers in Washington?

Mr. MCGINTY. The commission stenographers are obtained through the civil service.

The CHAIRMAN. These are expert stenographers used in taking testimony?

Mr. MCGINTY. Yes, sir; obtained under contract. So the present rate per page for the field work is 59 cents instead of 42 cents last year, and that was the lowest bid we could possibly get, which accounts for the increase. There is a provision in our estimate for next year, which was included by the Bureau of the Budget and I presume it will come to you, which it is claimed will permit us to do this work and sell copies and make it pay for itself.

The next item is mechanical office equipment, $5,000; other equipment $5,000; books, $3,000; rent of buildings, $80,000; other rentals, $6,000; special investigations, $17,469, making a total of $2,200,000 The CHAIRMAN. That is the way you have allotted the $1,900,000? Mr. McGINTY. I am afraid to use the word allotted, because I got myself in trouble a while ago.

Mr. SISSON. That is the way you expect to spend it?

Mr. BYRNS. That statement refers to the appropriation of $1,900,000 plus the $300,000 of deficiency.

Mr. MCGINTY. Yes, sir. This is to run the commission on the basis of its operations to-day.

The CHAIRMAN. Are you able to give us the monthly expenditures for July, August, September, and October?

Mr. McGINTY. Yes, sir; for July, August, and September.

The CHAIRMAN. Give it to us by months.

Mr. MCGINTY. For the month of July, $169,330.94; for the month of August, $168,083.94; and for the month of September, $172,010.35. The CHAIRMAN. And you have not the figures for October?

Mr. McGINTY. The figures are not complete yet for October. The CHAIRMAN. That would mean $509,000 for the quarter, which at that rate would be a little over $2,000,000 for the year? Mr. McGINTY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Are you reducing or increasing the force?

Mr. MCGINTY. We are reducing in this way: The commission thought that it should not ask for a deficiency of more than $300,000, and the heads of offices and the chiefs of bureaus are using every endeavor to cooperate with the commission and with the Bureau of the Budget in keeping our expenses to the lowest possible minimum this year. So there is considerable voluntary overwork and night work that is going on now in the commission to carry on work where a man drops out or resigns or gets another position somewhere else that is better, and we have at the present time vacancies which we are not filling, and we are decreasing in that way.

The CHAIRMAN. Has the commission in contemplation any study of the efficiency with which the railroad systems of the country are being operated with a view to reaching a conclusion that might lead to a reduction in transportation rates?

Mr. MCGINTY. The commission has the subject under consideration at the present time, but it has not proceeded with it because of inadequate appropriation.

The CHAIRMAN. If the deficiency now asked by the commission should be granted by Congress, would any part of the amount granted be used to obtain information which I have outlined?

Mr. MCGINTY. Yes, sir; in the statement I have just read please note that I included for special investigation $17,469.

The CHAIRMAN. That is, $17,000 of the $300,000 would be used for the purposes indicated by the question I have just asked? Mr. MCGINTY. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Would that be all that was used?

Mr. MCGINTY. No; that would not be all of it, because the money we are saving now by not filling vacancies, as they are created, would probably be used, because this $17,000 would not go very far. One expert alone probably would take up that amount.

The CHAIRMAN. Then if the activities suggested by my question were entered upon it would involve the expenditure of a considerable amount of money?

Mr. McGINTY. Yes.

Mr. GALLIVAN. Which is not now available?

Mr. McGINTY. That is true.

The CHAIRMAN. In your opinion, would it be likely to result in any saving to the public in the way of a reduction of freight rates?

Mr. MCGINTY. That depends, of course, upon the finding of the

commission.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. McGinty, will you be kind enough to state for the information of the committee whether any part of this increased cost which necessitates the deficiency is due to increased compensa

tion paid to those who are in the service of the Interstate Commerce Commission?

Mr. MCGINTY. No, sir; increased employments, but not to increases in salaries.

The CHAIRMAN. What necessitated the increased employments?

DUTIES INCREASED BY TRANSPORTATION AND OTHER ACTS.

Mr. MCGINTY. The new duties placed upon the commission by the transportation and other acts. In addition to the transportation act, other acts have been passed by the Congress since the submission by the commission of this estimate and action thereon by the Congress as follows: Public No. 15 of the Sixty-seventh Congress. The CHAIRMAN. What does that provide?

Mr. MCGINTY. The consolidation of telephone companies; Public No. 400, Sixty-sixth Congress, transportation of explosives; Public No. 389, Sixty-sixth Congress, transportation facilities on inland and coastwise waterways; and Public No. 328, amending the transportation act to authorize partial payments to carriers.

The CHAIRMAN. Right at this point, tell the committee what new duties were imposed upon the Interstate Commerce Commission by the transportation act, in addition to the duties that you were required to perform prior to the enactment of that law?

Mr. SISSON. You might put a statement of that into the record. Mr. MCGINTY. This [indicating] is the transportation act of 1920, and there are 48 pages of it.

The CHAIRMAN. Just give us an epitome of the new activities. You do not have to go into the details of it. For example, you must make loans to railroads and equipment must be supplied to weaker roads.

Mr. KELLEY. I would suggest that Mr. McGinty take the necessary time to do that and put it in his statement.

Mr. MCGINTY. I was about to say that that would be the best way to do it. I could give you the headings of the different subjects in the act itself, but that would take quite a lot of time. I will be glad to cover it in a brief statement.

The CHAIRMAN. Put it in concise form. It might be well while you are doing that to indicate in a word or two under each heading what you think is the additional expense involved in the performance of the duties.

Mr. MCGINTY. That will be an awful hard, if not impossible, thing to do, for this reason: That with the efficient organization that the Interstate Commerce Commission has, regardless of what additional activities are placed upon it most of them are dovetailed in with our regular work in such a way that it is almost impossible to tell what is the actual cost of the new work.

The CHAIRMAN. Make it lucid as possible so that a layman can understand it.

Mr. MCGINTY. The new duties imposed upon the commission in part are as follows: In respect to the reimbursement of deficits. during Federal control; guaranty of income to carriers after termination of Federal control; loans to carriers; formulation of regulations designating subordinate officials and prescribing manner in which nominations shall be made for appointment to membership on the

« ÀÌÀü°è¼Ó »