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as far as it is physically possible to keep within those allotments. Every 30 days we know whether our rate of disbursement is running ahead or behind.
The CHAIRMAN. I know that you can not regulate the number of people who come into the service, but you can regulate the cost of operating it.
Mr. ROUTSONG. That is the way we do, by checking every 30 days our actual disbursements against tentative allotments.
Mr. BREINING. But the unfortunate thing is you can not regulate 99 per cent of the cost.
The CHAIRMAN. You can regulate the overhead.
The CHAIRMAN. I think it is very high. You have nothing to do except to administer a fund of $150,000,000. Eight per cent of that is $12,000,000. In a business where you do not have anything to do but administer, any collections to make or any business to get, you ought to do it for 2 per cent.
Mr. BREINING. We have to have training men out to see that the pupils are in training. That is the way this money is spent. It does not consist in sitting back in the office and determining there whether men are being given training, but it means checking up of these men. The 8 per cent is not therefore for administering the funds, as you have termed it.
NUMBER OF APPLICANTS AND NUMBER ACCEPTED.
The CHAIRMAN. How many men do you have on the eligible list for training and how many do you have actually in training? Give us first the number of applications you have.
Mr. ROUTSONG. The number of registrations or applications as of January 1 was 508,726. You will note that that number grows right along.
The CHAIRMAN. How many have you passed upon as eligible?
Col. FORBES. Three hundred and three thousand two hundred and seventy-six. There have been assigned for training 273,906.
The CHAIRMAN. What does that mean?
NUMBER OF MEN COMPLETED TRAINING.
The CHAIRMAN. Yes; how many have actually completed their training?
Mr. ROUTsong. The total number of men who have completed their training is 8,259.
The CHAIRMAN. Those men have actually completed their training and gone into life?
Col. FORBES. Yes, sir; into life, but not always into the work that was their objective in the training.
The CHAIRMAN. Have you any control over that?
The CHAIRMAN. Is there any advantage in training them if they do not improve the opportunity that the training gives them?
Col. FORBES. You can not say what pursuit a man shall follow.
The CHAIRMAN. Of course, he might not be able to get a job in the line for which he was trained.
Mr. ROUTSONG. It is true that many of them do not follow their training when they go out into life, and I believe that is true of 75 per cent of the men who attend college. That percentage would not apply, however, to these men.
The CHAIRMAN. You have 273,000 men in training?
Mr. ROUTSONG. That 273,000 represents the eligibles assigned or men who have been declared eligible and assigned to training from the beginning
LENGTH OF PERIOD REQUIRED FOR TRAINING. The CHAIRMAN. What is the period required for training these men successfully?
Col. FORBES. It was at first thought that two years would be sufficient, but we have a great many taking university courses requiring four years.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there any limit to the time?
The CHAIRMAN. What is the practice or regulation of the bureau in regard to that, if there is any?
Col. FORBES. I, personally, have set a standard for the Chillicothe school, and the period has ben standardized there at two years for a course in any of the trades taught there.
CHECK OF TRAINEES' ATTENDANCE. The CHAIRMAN. Do you have any check on the men to see whether they are really taking the training to which they have been assigned ?
Col. FORBES. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there any truth in the statement to the effect that many of these men who are presumably taking the training in fact only report to the institution?
Col. FORBES. I would not be surprised.
The CHAIRMAN. Is it true that in many cases they do not attend at all, but are being paid while presumably in training ?
Col. FORBES. I believe there are some such cases.
Col. FORBES. Very few so far, and we are dropping them just as fast as we find them.
COMPLAINTS FROM TRAINEES.
The CHAIRMAN. What is the sense or feeling among the men being trained as to the utility of the training that is being given them? In other words, how do they feel about the matter?
Col. FORBES. We have a great many letters protesting the training, and we have a great many letters commending the training.
The CHAIRMAN. What is the nature of the protest?
Col. FORBES. Principally that they do not get tools, difficulties with the training officers, and because of difficulties with the institution that is training them.
The CHAIRMAN. Do you not have control over that?
Col. FORBES. Yes, sir. It is one of the conditions of unrest among a lot of men who are taking training. It is something very hard to regulate.
EQUIPMENT SUPPLIED TRAINEES DURING AND AFTER COURSE.
The CHAIRMAN. For example, if a man is taking a course of training with a view to becoming a doctor, does the practice still continue of supplying him with all of his books during the period of his training, and then supplying him with a library after he gets through?
Col. FORBES. No, sir; he gets no library when he gets through now. But is supplied with necessary books during his course of training.
The CHAIRMAN. They did formerly, did they not?
The CHAIRMAN. What about the man who is learning to be a barber: Does he get a supply of barber tools to equip a ship when he finishes his course of training?
Col. FORBES. Not any more. He did receive tools. Of course, he did not get enough to start a shop.
The CHAIRMAN. What about the man studying to be a lawyer?
TRANSPORTATION OF TRAINEES.
The CHAIRMAN. Do you pay the transportation of the men to the places where they are to be trained ?
Col. FORBES. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Would you class that as a part of the overhead or as a part of the training course? Is that included in the $126 per month?
Col. FORBES. We have an item of transportation here.
The CHAIRMAN. How much is paid out for transportation in connection with this training?
Mr. BREINING. I would say, offhand, about $4,000,000 per year for all beneficiaries.
Mr. ROUTSONG. Disbursements for all beneficiaries from August 10 to January 1 amounts to $1,364,000, of which $287,000 was paid out of the vocational appropriation. These figures include only the bills actually settled. At the present time it is difficult to apportion the transportation for this reason: A man will be ordered in for examination for compensation and that is all given in one examination. Previously we made one examination for vocational training and another for compensation, but now we use the same examination for compensation and for vocational training.
The CHAIRMAN. Does that result in an economy?
Mr. BREINING. Yes, sir; that economizes greatly, because we have one examination cost and one travel cost.
The CHAIRMAN. Do you pay the expenses of the men who come in for examination ? Mr. BREINING. If they are ordered in we do. The CHAIRMAN. They are all ordered in, are they not? Col. FORBES. No, sir; a great many come in without any orders.
The CHAIRMAN. Is it necessary to have that cost or does the law require it?
Col. FORBES. The law provides for it. The original war risk act provided for that.
The CHAIRMAN. How much do you allow them for subsistence? Col. FORBES. $1. The CHAIRMAN. $1 per day? Mr. BREINING. One dollar per meal and $2 for lodging, or $5 per day.
The CHAIRMAN. Do you have a limit on the number of days? Mr. BREINING. No, sir; for instance, if a man out west travels for two days to reach the place where he is examined, we give him six meals and two lodgings, whereas a man living in New York City and who comes into the district office, would not get anything for meals and lodging.'
TOTAL EXPENDITURES FOR DISABLED VETERANS.
The CHAIRMAN. I wish you would tell us, if you can, how much is paid for transportation. I would like to broaden that question somewhat and have you tell us how much you have paid for transportation on account of the men who have been in training from the beginning. We would like to have a table showing how much has been paid for transportation, how much for maintenance pay, while taking the trainir ow much for overhead, how much for tuition cost per man
wm for supplies. Then we would like to have a sts
mount expended on account of the men in +
ling of the training up until the present Mr. Ro
is start with August 10, when the Vet
ed. From that time back, we can gr
ilable, but we can give a detailed ustyn
statement of that in the w much money has been
al expenditures to date are dded $647,088,418 as repreterm insurance awards which
over and above premiums re37,900. Actual disbursements as y out of appropriations and funds ureau are as follows:
1 Expended out of war risk insurance appropriation only. : Total to July 1, 1920; monthly expenditures not available.
1 Exclusive of $55,800,606.89 allotted to United States Public Health Service, soldiers' homes, War Department, and Navy Department; $19,300,000 expended by United States Publle Health Service prior to July, 1920; and 44,684,169.09 expended for medical and hospital services out of appropriation for inilitary and naval compensation,