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special in your minds, but the Shipping Board had authority to collect $55,000,000, and that $55,000,000 was to be utilized in any way the board thought proper. I know they have not collected the entire $55,000,000 but they are still collecting, have collected, and will collect a lot more between now and the 3th of June, so that everything we give you on top of what you received to complete your $29.000.000 program is just adding that much more to the funds of the Shipping Board, which we do not propose to do: we have given them all we propose to give them.
Commander GATEWOOD. How much of that we are now getting in is properly creditable to pure construction I do not know, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. That is a matter of administration.
The CHAIRMAN. It is a matter of administration, and if we give you $7,500,000 we will just add that much more to the appropriations we have already given to the Shipping Board.
Mr. Sisson. They have from now until the 1st of July to collect the balance of the $55,000,000 uncollected: they may or may not get that, of course, but it is the duty of the Shipping Board to dispose of that money in the way they can best use it.
The CHAIRMAN. I recommend to the Shipping Board that they come in with a frank statement of the situation and not try to get money by indirect methods.
Commander GATEWOOD. You understand my position, sir? From the time construction started until we made our estimates of $69,000,000 and then up to the time we made our estimate of $29,000,000 we were getting certain credits properly chargeable to construction funds. Maybe I can make it clear if I put it this way,
The CHAIRMAN (interposing). They were giving you a part of the money as they were collecting it for the payment of your obligations.
Commander GATEWOOD. A part of the money which was collected and which had been obtained and expended out of construction funds. Let us suppose, for example, that some of the credits in this $55,000,000 were from housing projects.
The CHAIRMAN. It is money obtained from the sale of ships, and they can use the money no matter from what source they get it.
Commander GATEWOOD. That is an administrative matter. In these estimates we are only crediting back to construction what has been spent right out of construction.
Mr. BYRNs. The law reads this way:
For administrative purposes, the payment of la'ms arising from the cancellation of contraces, damage charges and miscellaneous adjustments, maintenance and operation of vessels, the completion of vessels now under construct on, and for carrying out the provisions of the act entitled "An act to provide for the promotion and maintenance of the American merchant marine, to repe: I certain emergency legislation, and provide for the disposition, regulation, and use of property acquired thereunder, and for other purposes," approved June 5, 1920, shall be paid from the following sources: (a) The amount on hand July 1, 1921 ; (b) the amount received during the fiscal year 1922 from the operation of ships, and (c) not to exceed $.55,000,000 from deferred paymenis on ships sold prior to the approval of this act, from plant and material sold during the fiscal year 1922, and from ships sold during the fiscal year 1922.
So it is clearly applicable to the construction of ships.
Mr. Sisson. Then, there is this other proposition involved: You made an estimate of $29,000,000: we thought we might be able, with a falling market, to get the work done for $25,000,000. What has that work cost us as compared to what we thought it would cost when the estimate of $29,000,000 was made—that is, did it cost more or less or about the figure you had in your mind when you made the $29,000,000 estimate?
Commander GATEWOOD. It has cost us very close to that figure, sir. I see what you have in mind and I will quote this paragraph from the memorandum I have here. There was a cash balance on October 1 of $17,000,000; if we had not had to take into account
Mr. Sisson (interposing). Let us eliminate that for the purpose of getting clear in my own mind whether or not the work, since the $25,000,000 appropriation was made, has cost you more or less than that. You know we anticipated that there might be a little reduction in the labor and material cost and that we might in that way be able to save $4,000,000, when the then price would indicate $29,000,000,
Commander GATEWOOD. It looks like that estimate was short about $2,300,000; in other words, we just about split the $4,000,000 that was given us.
The ('HAIRMAN. Then you have saved $2,000,000?
The CHAIRMAN. Then you ought not to need any more than $2,000,000.
Mr. Sisson. Then if Congress should carry out what was in our minds and what was in the minds of the Shipping Board at the time the $25,000,000 appropriation was made, we now having saved about $2,000,000, Congress should give you, in order to carry out what was then the understanding, about $2,000,000 to finish this work.
Commander GATEWOOD. That would be all right if-
Mr. Sisson (interposing). Let us not get this mixed up with anything else. In other words, if our calculations at that time were correct the $2,000,000 would do the job, because you have saved something like $2,000,000.
Commander GATEWOOD. That is about right.
Mr. Sisson. Now, these other matters that Congress knew nothing about-these credits you speak of as expecting to get in-are entirely different matters.
The CHAIRMAX. But even then they would still have money enough to pay those obligations.
Mr. Sisson. If the Shipping Board itself decides to use the funds which they have collected as the act provides they may be used then you do not need but $2,000,000.
The CHAIRMAN. And that is the way everybody understood it would be used and that is what it must be used for as far as I am concerned.
Mr. Sisson. In other words, we have gotten the proposition down to the point that we have now saved about $2,000,000 and if (ongress appropriates $2,000,000—the exact figure can be arrived atthen Congress will keep faith with the Shipping Board; we would
give them the $2,000,000 they should have, and it would be up to the Shipping Board to use these other credits as they desired and for the purpose of paying these debts and obligations. That is a matter of administration and is not a matter for which we should appropriate.
The CHAIRMAN. Anything we add to the $2,000,000 will be adding that much more to the $55,000,000, and as long as they have the $55,000,000, or any part of it, they must use it as provided in the law. Have you anything more to say about this under those circumstances?
Commander GATEWOOD. No, sir; I am not here to justify the comptroller's use of any overhead moneys; I am merely justifying the construction estimates, which are, as I said before, 'surprisingly accurate. I want the committee to understand that it was misinformed last July by not having had added to the purely construction figures an amount that was properly chargeable against construction to carry on the general administrative work in finishing that program. You should have had that figure, but it was not added, and to that extent the figures are short. To the extent that I overestimated the credits I am short, and I am not avoiding responsibility for that, but I still think some of those credits are coming in.
The CHAIRMAN. Up to the 30th of next June they can pay any. thing they want to pay for construction out of any money they collect under the $55,000,000 authorization.
Commander GATEWOOD. But what I am trying to present is that some of these things may not come in before the 30th of next June. For example, we should get something out of the Submarine Boat Co. claims, but we will not get anything by the 30th of next June, because those claims will be long-winded legal affairs, and to that extent we have overestimated the credits; but you should have had another figure; whether that figure ought to be $8,600,000 I do not know, but you should have had a figure in addition to my estimate for general overhead.
Mr. Sisson. I' presume you do not know now whether the saving we have mentioned is more or less than $2,000,000, and I would suggest that you put in the record at this point exactly what the figure may be.
Commander GATEWOOD. I will try to get that for you if I can get the accurate figures from the comptroller's department.
The CHAIRMAX. But it is about $2.000.000?
You will remember that in that $25,000,000 we estimated about $10,000,000 for deferred payments, and that was only an estimate; that was the best we could possibly do, because no one could say whether it was $10,000,000, $12,000,000, or $14,000,000, and that was the figure that was the least accurate of all the figures I gave. A great deal of the money we now have to pay is for ships that have already been constructed--that is, the money necessary for the settlement of those contracts, a great deal of it-because we have only a relatively small amount of shipbuilding to complete.
Mr. BYRNS. As I understand, you did estimate in this $29,000,000 the actual overhead charges for purely construction work?
Commander GATEWOOD. Yes; they are in luded in that-I mean for my division.
Mr. BYRNS. Your construction division?
Commander GATEWOOD. Yes; but not for the comptroller's divi. sion that is, the administrative overhead expenses of the offices here in Washington and field.
Mr. Sisson. For which you are in no way responsible and can not be responsible from the very nature of things, any more than we would be responsible unless we would be told about it.
FEPRUARY 17, 1922.
DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE.
BUREAU OF PLANT INDUSTRY.
STATEMENT OF DR. WM. A. TAYLOR, CHIEF, BUREAU OF PLANT
Mr. ANDERSOX. Dr. Taylor, tell us about this item.
Dr. TAYLOR. This item, which is a deficiency item of $150,000, is made necessary by the discovery of the white pine blister rust in the Pacific Northwest during the past autumn. The disease is one which reached the New England States from Europe some 10 years ago and which is destructive to the white pine of the East and to the five-needled pines of the West, which are variously known as white pines when they reach the stage of lumber.
The disease is destructive to the tree, as you will notice in the pictures on these posters, which were prepared for use in the Eastern States, entering through the leaves, passing from the leaves to the small twigs and working back gradually until it reaches the trunk of the tree, which it girdles, resulting in the death of that which is above and ultimately in the breaking down of the top. The length of time to cause destruction after the infection of the tree naturally varies with the age of the tree and the distance of the point of infection from the trunk.
In the case of trees that are 50 years old and that be ome infected! out on the limbs the probabilities are that the infection will not seriously damage the tree before it is ready for cutting and harvesting as timber. In the case of young trees the death is very quick, so that the reproduction of the forest is prevented. In the case of trees of the age of 20 or 30 years serious damage is likely to occur within 10 years after infection and the timber value of the tree, therefore, is destroyed before it is big enough to harvest for timber.
REMEDY FOR DESTROYING DISEASE.
The work on the disease, under the conditions that prevail in the States from New York east, has proceeded for several years in the direction of developing a practical working method of controlling the disease. That control is made possible by the fact that the disease can not spread from one pine tree to another pine tree except by way of the foliage of currants or gooseberries, upon which the spores from the pine tree lodge. There they germinate and penetrate and then spread from gooseberry or courant to gooseberry or currant, and from those back to the pine. If this bridge which the currant and gooseberry bushes form between the pine trees is removed the pine trees are safe. Such removal, it has been determined through observation and experiments, involves the cleaning out of the currant and gooseberry bushes for distances of 600 to 900 feet outside of the outermost pine trees in a particular forest.
The CHAIRMAX. Surrounding a forest?
Dr. TAYLOR. Yes, sir. There must be a noncurrant and nongooseberry zone of from 600 to 900 feet around the forest.
We have felt that the method of controlling the disease under eastern conditions and, therefore, of maintaining our future supply of white pine, has been sufficiently worked out to make it plain that that supply can be protected for the future.
The CHAIRMAX. Do you have any trouble in getting cooperation on the part of the States?
Dr. TAYLOR. It is chiefly a question of education and of the psychological condition of the timber owners which makes them receptive; in other words, it is chiefly a question of how highly they value the pine. In the New England States, where white pine is now recognized as a crop just as much as corn, although it takes from 40 to 60 years to grow it to the point of harvesting, the local individual and municipal interest is very keen, and it is becoming increasingly so. In sections where the original forests are still being harvested and where no planting of forests is done there is little interest in any such thing until the disease reaches the stage that it is destructive enough to be convincing and alarming.
This much which I have said relates not to the deficiency item but to the general program of work.
Mr. ANDERSON. And what you have just said refers entirely to the infestations in the Eastern States?
Dr. TAYLOR. Yes, sir; from Minnesota eastward and chiefly east of Lake Michigan.
Mr. ANDERSON. Where it is a problem of controlling the spread of the disease?
Dr. Taylor. Where it is a question of a progressive, systematie clearing out of the currants and gooseberries and controlling the disease, for the disease is present in practically all of that area.
In September last the disease for the first time was discovered west of Minnesota and the corresponding portions of Canada. It was discovered in British Columbia near Puget Sound, in the vicinity, I believe, of the city of Vancouver. That immediately caused careful scouting in the Puget Sound territory of the State of Washington, and prior to the setting in of winter infection had been found in four localities in the State of Washington, all near Puget Sound, so that we have at once upon us the problem of protecting the 8,000,000 acres, approximately, of merchantable susceptible pine in the Cascade