We have now on hand only 7 rolls of the paper (as it deteriorates we buy in small quantities). We shall need 50 additional rolls to carry us through the balance of the fiscal year. The cost of these, with the incidental chemicals, will be the deficiency estimated, $1,000.

STATEMENT OF MR. GEORGE H. CARTER, PUBLIC PRINTER.

PAYMENT FOR LEAVES OF ABSENCE.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Carter, we are confronted with a problem here that seems to be troubling you. To enable the Public Printer to pay accrued leave on account of deaths and separations from the service for the remainder of the fiscal year you are asking $45,000. Will you explain how that comes about?

Mr. CARTER. That is a situation that I pointed out to the committee, in connection with the deficiency last November, as one that probably would come about because of the present and prospective reductions in the force of employees of the Government Printing Office. Under the present arrangement of the appropriation paragraphs, leaves of absence must be paid out of one appropriation and wages of employees out of the other; so that, as the Public Printer reduces the number of employees there is a decrease in the amount of wages to be charged against one appropriation and an increase in the amount charged against the leave-of-absence appropriation. The CHAIRMAN. But you save in the other item of wages? Mr. CARTER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. It makes a heavier expenditure under the appropriation carried in this particular item?

Mr. CARTER. Yes, sir. The committee has corrected this situation in the appropriation for next year by combining the leave and wage appropriations in one paragraph, so that hereafter there ought not to be any requests for deficiency appropriations on account of leaves or holidays granted according to law.

The CHAIRMAN. Your note on this subject reads as follows:

It is suggested as an alternative to making a supplemental appropriation for this purpose that a paragraph substantially as follows be encted:

"In order to provide the payment for pro rata leaves of absence in the Government Printing Office in 1922 there shall be transferred on the books of the Treasury from the appropriation for the public printing and binding, 1922, to the appropriation for leaves of absence, Government Printing Office, 1922, and thus made available for requisition by the Public Printer, such amounts as the Public Printer may certify are necessary for that purpose, and such transfers shall be upon his request."

Mr. CARTER. If that language were inserted in the present bill there would be no necessity for making a deficiency appropriation, because we would then simply pay the amount of leave employees

may have earned out of the appropriation for printing and binding, the same as wages.

The CHAIRMAN. Your appropriation has been combined in that way for 1923, has it not?

Mr. CARTER. Yes, sir; but we can not do that with this year's appropriation.

The CHAIRMAN. This will simply give you the right to use the money that you already have?

Mr. CARTER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN.. It would not have to be appropriated?

Mr. CARTER. No, sir. The money now available for paying wages is not available for paying the leaves of absence without some such an authorization as I have proposed.

The CHAIRMAN. Which is the equivalent of wages?

Mr. CARTER. Yes, sir. All the employees when separated from the service have a legal right to their leave money.

The CHAIRMAN. If we authorize you to charge the amount paid to employees of the Government Printing Office against the appropriation for pay of employees rather than against the appropriation for leave, making the two appropriations usable, you would not need any additional money at all?

Mr. CARTER. We would not. We have the money available in the appropriation for wages, and I would use that.

The CHAIRMAN. You would not use the other fund?

Mr. CARTER. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. It is because you are reducing the force in the Government Printing Office that you need more money to pay for leaves of absence?

Mr. CARTER. Yes, sir.

. The CHAIRMAN. And when you make those reductions, you are not using the money that is available for the payment of wages?

Mr. CARTER. That is the situation. An appropriation has already been made for leaves of absence, including the deficiency last November, but that was simply to take care of the normal separations from the service by death and resignation, etc..

The CHAIRMAN. In making the appropriations for the fiscal year 1922 was it contemplated that as many reductions in the force would be made as are now being made?

Mr. CARTER. I did not estimate for that appropriation, which was made under my predecessor, but I do not believe it contemplated so many reductions. The former Public Printer estimated for $580.970 for leaves. and Congress appropriated $560,000, or $20,970 less than the amount estimated for.

The CHAIRMAN. Then, there was a deficiency appropriation.

Mr. CARTER. There was a deficiency appropriation of $17.618. making $577,618, which is practically equal to the amount that was estimated for leaves of absence consequent upon normal requirements and separations by death, resignations, etc.

The CHAIRMAN. How much have you reduced the force? Mr. CARTER. We have 218 less employees to-day than there were in the office a year ago.

The CHAIRMAN. How much have you paid on account of leaves of absence so far this year?

Mr. CARTER. Up to the 17th of January, $414,417, and there was obligated to employees the amount of $163,201 more. The additional amount asked will take up the leaves of absence for employees who will be separated from the service between now and the 1st of July.

The CHAIRMAN. You are satisfied that there will be a sufficient number of separations to cover that amount?

Mr. CARTER. Yes, sir.

PRINTING AND BINDING FOR THE PATENT OFFICE.

The CHAIRMAN. There are two items for printing and binding for the Patent Office, amounting to $60,000.

Mr. CARTER. We do not want to be put in the position of asking for the appropriation, because it is immaterial to the Public Printer whether it is granted or not. The estimate was submitted by the Patent Office and not by the Government Printing Office.

The CHAIRMAN. What do you say about the necessity for it? Mr. CARTER. It is not a deficiency item, but an appropriation for additional work that the Patent Office desires to have done. The CHAIRMAN. It is not a deficiency?

Mr. CARTER. No, sir; at least, that is the way we view it. The Patent Office may view it as a deficiency so far as their work is concerned. Clearly, $30,000 of it is not a deficiency, because it is for the binding of German and other foreign patents. That is work that has not been provided for in current appropriation for printing and binding.

The CHAIRMAN. That is, not in the estimates?

Mr. CARTER. The Patent Office has estimated for it in this deficiency, but it is not work that they previously submitted to the Government Printing Office.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the necessity for asking for the binding of these patents just now as an emergency matter?

Mr. CARTER. We could handle it with greater expedition at this time than we could have done at any time in the past, because work in our bindery is slack now.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that the only reason for asking the money, or because work is slack in the bindery?

Mr. CARTER. The Patent Office wants the appropriation because it is essential to their work to have foreign patents bound up from time to time. Of course, that is a matter that I am not qualified to

pass upon.

The CHAIRMAN. You think it it is not a deficiency?

Mr. CARTER. It is not a deficiency.

The CHAIRMAN. You are not able to say whether it is essential or not?

Mr. CARTER. I am not prepared to say as to that.

PRINTING AND BINDING FOR SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION.

The CHAIRMAN. For printing and binding for the Smithsonian Institution there is an estimate of $5,200.

Mr. CARTER. This printing and binding for the Smithsonian Institution is for completing certain reports of the American Historical

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Association, which have been in the office for some time. The particular jobs they want finished were in the office before I became Public Printer.

The CHAIRMAN. How long have you been Public Printer?

Mr. CARTER. Since the 5th of last April.

The CHAIRMAN. It is not an emergency, then?

Mr. CARTER. It is not an emergency, as I understand it.
The CHAIRMAN. How long has the work been there?

Mr. CARTER. Some of the jobs have been in the office for a year or two. They contend that by this appropriation, because, as you will notice, it is made available until expended, they can clean up the work which has been pending in the office for some time and thus begin the next fiscal year clear. They claim, I understand, that they can then keep within their appropriation.

The CHAIRMAN. They can keep within their appropriation anyway. Mr. CARTER. The item is not a deficiency so far as this year is concerned, because we will not be able to use all of it for work done before July 1.

Mr. WooD. Are they supposed to have an appropriation under which to do this work?

The CHAIRMAN. It may be included in the appropriation for 1923. Mr. WOOD. I was wondering if it was included in the appropriation made in the independent offices bill.

Mr. CARTER. I am informed that it was not included and that, if it is not carried here, this $5,200 will have to be charged against the regular appropriation for next year. They will thus be that far behind again.

Mr. WOOD. Would not the work be held up?

Mr. CARTER. The work can be done in the next fiscal year.

Mr. WOOD. It can not be done without an appropriation. How will they do this work?

Mr. CARTER. Out of their regular appropriation.

Mr. WOOD. And then present this item again next year?

Mr. CARTER. The trouble is, they will have other work also that will be much needed next year.

The CHAIRMAN. They will have money enough in the appropriation for 1923 to do this work?

Mr. CARTER. They will have money enough to do this work, but not money enough to do this work and their ordinary work so as to keep current.

The CHAIRMAN. We are not sure about that. You are not sure about that, are you?

Mr. CARTER. I am sure that they can not use the $5,200 between now and the 1st of July.

TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 14, 1922.

EFFICIENCY BUREAU.

STATEMENT OF MR. HERBERT D. BROWN, CHIEF.

The CHAIRMAN. It seems that you have an item asking for $10,000 in addition to what we gave you for 1922. What is the trouble?

Mr. BROWN. There is no trouble, Mr. Chairman. We need $10,000 additional to pay our current operating expenses.

The CHAIRMAN. Please tell us why?

Mr. BROWN. In the legislative bill for the current year you gave us $125,000. For several years our operating expenses have run between $140,000 and $145,000, and we do not see how we can reduce our expenses down to the amount given us in the legislative bill and do the work that we are required by law to do.

The CHAIRMAN. There is no special amount of work required, is there? You regulate that, do you not?

Mr. BROWN. We can regulate that somewhat, but it is difficult for us to refuse to do work that means a saving of money to the Government of from 10 to 100 times as much as it costs.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, first, did you ever read the deficiency act? Mr. BROWN. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you any recollection of what it says?

Mr. BROWN. Yes; I have.

The CHAIRMAN. Please tell us about it.

Mr. BROWN. The deficiency act forbids a person in charge of an administrative branch of the Government from incurring obligations in excess of the amount of money that is given him for the work. I have never violated that law.

Mr. WOOD. But you have done this.

Mr. BROWN. This request for $10,000 is in anticipation of the time when our current appropriation will be exhausted. If you do not give us the money, we will have to suspend our work.

The CHAIRMAN. This law requires you to make an apportionment of the amount of the appropriation when it becomes available in monthly or quarterly allotments and not to exceed the allotment during the period?

Mr. BROWN. No.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; it does. Instead of spending at the rate of $10,000 in excess of the appropriation you should continue the expenditures within the appropriation?

Mr. BROWN. No. If I may argue that point-

The CHAIRMAN (interposing). I do not want to argue. Just please state the facts.

Mr. BROWN. Last year we had $145.000. We have been reducing our force as rapidly as we could and at the same time do the work required of us, and we shall continue to reduce our force until it is down to $125,000 if we do not get this money.

The CHAIRMAN. When there is a certain amount of money appropriated, that is what Congress wants you to expend.

Mr. BROWN. We have never spent any more money than Congress has given us since I have been in charge of the Bureau of Efficiency; we have never created a deficiency.

The CHAIRMAN. What is this?

Mr. BROWN. This is not a deficiency.

The CHAIRMAN. You have no place here.

Mr. BROWN. This is the amount that I should like to have to enable us to continue our present force. We have reduced our force under what it was last year, and if we are not to get this money we will reduce it still further.

The CHAIRMAN. You say it is not a deficiency?
Mr. BROWN. No, sir.