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The CHAIRMAN. Do they calculate the value of the construction work and tell you the cost of reconstruction, and all that?

Mr. CALDWELL. Yes, sir; the cost of reconstruction and building.

The CHAIRMAN. Is this award to be made on the basis of the present cost of construction?

Mr. CALDWELL. The Market Co. put in its case on that theorythat it was entitled to the present production value.

The CHAIRMAX. Less deterioration ?

Mr. CALDWELL. Yes; less depreciation. The Market Co. sought to have the depreciation deducted-and that amounted to very littleon each item of machinery, brickwork, lumber, etc. The Government introduced their income-tax returns

The CHAIRMAN (interposing). How long have these buildings been up?

Mr. CALDWELL. The earliest building was completed in 1872.

The Chairman. The life of buildings of the character of these market buildings ought not to be over 50 years, and on the basis of a 4 per cent depreciation annually there would not be any value to the buildings at this time.

Mr. CALDWELI.. Of course, that is true and that was discussed, but the buildings are there, are functioning, and are actually in use.

The CHAIRMAN. They are there, but certainly they are not worth anything like new buildings.

Mr. CALDWELL. Absolutely not.
The CHAIRMAN. What is your contention about the depreciation ?

Mr. CALDWELL. We, through our witnesses, allowed for a life of 150 years for the brickwork, which is very liberal.

The CHAIRMAN. You should never have allowed over 50 years.

Mr. CALDWELL. They introduced evidence to show that brick buildings are standing which were built 150 or 200 years or more ago and, of.course, that is true.

The CHAIRMAN. That is true, but there is a process of decay.

Mr. CALDWELL. We are able to attach a greater percentage of depreciation to the cold-storage plant.

The CHAIRMAN. Which will depreciate more rapidly?

Mr. CALDWELL. Yes, sir; the cold-storage plant will depreciate more rapidly, the machinery, the boilers, and so on.

The CHAIRMAN. I should think that 10 years would be a good life for stuff of that kind.

Mr. CALDWELL. Ten years and perhaps longer.

The CHAIRMAN. What you want is to have us give you authority to use $8,500 out of the $35,000?

Mr. CALDWELL. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Will there be enough in this $35,000 to pay all the expenses of this award?

Mr. CALDWELL. I made this estimate, with the approval of the commission, providing an item so as to allow us not in excess of the amount we ask, so if we do not use the full amount it will be available to the commission. It does not increase the appropriation.

The CHAIRMAN. There will not be anybody coming back here for more than $35,000 ?

Mr. CALDWELL. No. sir; absolutely not. The commission are to be paid out of this and the chairman of the commission and the other members are agreeable to it.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the compensation paid?

Mr. CALDWELL. That is determined by the President. The Department of Justice has nothing to do with that.

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 16, 192.2.

DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE.

STATEMENTS OF MR. WILLIAM W. HOPPIN, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, CUSTOMS DIVISION; MR. CHARLES E. STEWART, CHIEF CLERK; MR. JOHN D. HARRIS, CHIEF DIVISION OF ACCOUNTS; MR. E. M. KENNARD, ADMINISTRATIVE ACCOUNTANT; AND MR. C. R. SHERWOOD, IN CHARGE OF SUPPLIES.

SUPREME COURT, DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA.

FEES OF WITNESSES.

The CHAIRMAN. For fees of witnesses, Supreme Court, District of Columbia, you are asking $3,500. In 1921 you expended $18,568.86: you estimated $18,500 for 1922, and received $15,000, and for 1923 you estimated $18,500.

Mr. KENNARD. The fees of witnesses are fixed by statute. The congested condition of the docket in the District of Columbia is such that the activity of the court is proceeding at a rather increased rate. We have no means of reducing these expenditures; they arise automatically.

The CHAIRMAN. You disbursed during the September quarter $2,116.81, during the December quarter $5,334.07, and you estimate disbursements during the March quarter of $5,500 and during the June quarter $5,500, which would bring you up to $18.450.88. Do you think you will need all of that amount !

Mr. KENNARD. It will all be needed, undoubtedly, unless for some unforeseen reason the courts should adjourn early in June or several of the judges should be taken ill. Barring such exceptional conditions, it will all be needed. We expended during the first six months of this year more money for witness fees than we paid during the first six months of the previous year.

Mr. HARRIS. The March and June quarters are the heaviest quarters.

The CHAIRMAN. These witnesses are paid statutory fees?
Mr. KENNARD. Yes, sir
The CHAIRMAN. And mileage?

Mr. KENNARD. Mileage if they travel to attend, but a great many of them receive only per diems. Those coming from out of town receive mileage also. If witnesses are Government employees, they get their actual expenses only.

The CHAIRMAN. You can not control this situation?

Mr. KENNARD. No, sir. Our balance in this fund at present is $4,731.41, and we have about five months to run at $1,800 a month, making $9,000 needed.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the average expenditure per month

Mr. KENNARD. During the last half of the year it will average at least $1,800 per month. The courts are very active now, and I am informed there are 20 homicide cases to be tried this year.

The CHAIRMAN. So it looks as though you have a case from which we can not very well escape.

Mr. KENNARD. Yes, sir; in fact, the marshal's office reports a larger deficiency, but, desiring to be conservative, we reduced the estimate to $3,500.

FEES OF JURORS.

The ('HAIRMAX. For fees of jurors you are asking $10,000. Are these fees paid out of the District revenues and the Treasury, 60 per cent and 40 per cent!

Mr. KENNARD. Yes, sir. The pressure of business has been sa great that a little change has been made in the arrangement of the courts here in the District. There is now an extra jury court, making an additional jury, which will cost, for 26 jurors, $78 per day. This has been in effect since about the 1st of November, so that there will be eight months of extra cost for an additional jury, or about $10,000, which is the amount of this deficiency.

The (HAIRMAX. You expended in 1921 $53,751.
Mr. KENNARD. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You estimated $70,000 for 1922 and were granted $60,000, and I notice you are only estimating $55,000 for 1923.

Mr. KEN XARD. Yes, sir. That is because the additional jury court had not developed at the time the estimate was made. “At the time we made the estimate for 1923 there were two criminal, two civil, and two equity courts; now we have two criminal courts, three civil courts, and one equity court; so that there is only one nonjury court, and we have five jury courts instead of four. When the estimate for 1923 was submitted there were only four jury courts. We will have to request additional funds for 1923, unless the judges should change back to the old system in the meantime.

Mr. Byrns. You really might get along with $5,000 more this year.

Mr. KENNARD. I think not, sir.

Mr. Byrxs. You have estimated $55,000 for next year: I understand this new court involves an expenditure of $10,000, which would make $65,000 for next year.

Mr. KENNARD. If the courts run continuously without any break we will undoubtedly need the entire $10,000, because we only have a balance of $25,000 on hand.

The ('HAIRMAN. You have only four months to run?

Mr. KENNARD. Four months to run at $9,000 per month, approximately, which will be $36,000, so that we will undoubtedly need this entire amount, unless, as I stated in connection with the witness fees, the courts adjourn at an earlier date than usual, which is not anticipated, or adjourn for some such reason as the illness of judges. Of course, as with the witness fees, these are fixed statutory fees, and over this particular fund the department has absolutely no control.

PAY OF BAILIFFS.

The CHAIRMAX. The next item is pay of bailiffs, for which you ask $1,000. Are those bailiffs employed in the District courts?

Mr. KENNARD). In the District of Columbia courts. The entire expense under this appropriation is very easily stated. There is a fixed statutory pay roll of $27,600 for 17 bailiffs and 6 criers. at $1,200 each; Congress has provided for jury commissioners, who will receive $750; and the remainder we are requesting for feeding held juries. We have a great many cases approaching in which it will evidently be necessary to hold the juries together and feel them. We have already paid $118 this year for that purpose. Even with this deficiency, you will notice that the appropriation will be less than it was for the previous year.

The ('HAIRMAX. You want $1,000 additional?

Mr. KENNARD. Yes, sir. Congress changed the law relative to jury commissioners. The expense of jury commissioners in 1921 was $1,030, whereas it can not be over $750 hereafter.

The CHAIRMAN. According to your own statement, you would not need more than $750 of this $1,000.

Mr. KENNARD. We need $28,350, without allowing any money whatever for feeding the juries.

The CHAIRMAN. You have $150 for that purpose.

Mr. KEXXARD. We have already expended this year for feeding jurors $118. During the previous year we used $700 for this purpose, so it is pretty clear we will need the $29,000.

MISCELLANEOUS EXPENSES.

The CHAIRMAX. For miscellaneous expenses you ask a deficiency appropriation of $1,000, the item reading :

For such miscellaneous expenses as may be authorized by the Attorney Gent eral for the Supreme ('ourt of the District of ('olumbia and its officers, including the furnishing and collecting of evidence where the l'nited Stats is or may be a party in interest, including also such expenses other than for pursonal srvices as may be authorized by the Attorney General for the ('ourt of Appeals, District of (olumbia, fiscal year 1921, $1,000.

SETTLEMENT OF THE ESTATE OF F. W. PLI'GGE.

What does that consist of?

Mr. KENNARD. The money is needed to settle with the estate of Mr. F. W. Plugge. He was appointed by the court as a commissioner to hear testimony and determine the value of certain lands needed for the improvement of the Water Reed Hospital grounds Condemnation proceedings were instituted.

The CHAIRMAX. Is he dead?

Mr. KENNARD). Yes, sir; and that is the reason this item must be paid from the appropriation for the fiscal year 1921. There were three commissioners, each ordered to be paid $1,000, but this commissioner died before the close of the fiscal year 1921, and hence. under the ruling of the General Accounting Office, he must be paid from the appropriation for the fiscal year 1921; he can not be paid as the other two will be paie, from the current appropriation.

The CHAIRMAN. It is not a deficiency, then? You would have enough money in the appropriation to make this payment if it were not for the ruling of the accounting office ?

Mr. KENNARD. We would pay the bill from the appropriation for the current year if the commissioner had not died. I can not truthfully say it is not a deficiency, because the appropriation for the current year did not contemplate and is not sufficient for the payment of this $3,000. We may have to request the committee later to give us some help with regard to the other $2,000. Such commissioners are paid from the appropriation for the year in which the work is concluded, but in this case it could not be done because of the death of the commissioner prior to the issuance by the court of the order for payment.

The CHAIRMAN. Did he complete the work for which he was ap. pointed?

Mr. KENNARD. He did practically the same work as the other commissioners.

Mr. Harris. He completed the work and a report was filed, but the fee was not fixed prior to his death-that is, prior to the beginning of this fiscal year.

SUPPORT OF CONVICTS.

The CHAIRMAN. The next item is for the support of convicts. * For the support, maintenance, and transportation of convicts transferred from the District of Columbia ; expenses of shipping remains of deceased convicts to their homes in the United States, etc., you are asking a deficiency appropriation of $50,000. Why do you want this additional money?

Mr. KENNARD. I have computed the probable expense under this appropriation very carefully. The ascertained liabilities for the first half of the year are $78,600, leaving out the odd dollars; allowing the same amount for the second half of the year would make a total of $157,200. We have asked for $175,000 because 38 additional prisoners were carried to Leavenworth in December whose subsistence, at 85 cents a day, will amount to $5,800.

The CHAIRMAN. You say you computed this item at $157,000?
Mr. KENNARD). Yes; $157,000.
The CHAIRMAN. Why do you ask $175,000?

Mr. KENNARI). We have just carried 38 additional prisoners to Fort Leavenworth whose subsistence for the rest of the year, at 85 cents a day, will amount to $5,800, and on account of the increasing activities of the courts here we have added $10,000 for prospective additional prisoners during the latter half of the year.

The CHAIRMAX. But you have passed the latter half of the year, have you not?

Mr. Kennard. We have over five months to anticipate. The estimate of $10,000 is added to care for additional prisoners. The difficulty in making a close estimate on this fund is complicated by the fact that we do not know just how many prisoners will be paroled or when they will be paroled. If a prisoner is paroled, the expense to the Government for that man ceases.

The Chairman. You think it will not be less than $163,000 anyway?

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