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The CHAIRMAN. We come to the harbor tugs; that is where you were going to dispense with a lot?

Admiral Coontz. We are going to endeavor to dispense with 10 of those, Mr. Chairman. They will go out of commission by March 31.

The CHAIRMAN. Are they all coal burners?
Admiral Coontz. They are mostly coal burners.

The CHAIRMAN. I should judge they were all because $213.294.84-one-sixth-of those come off. Then the eagle boats, 25, what do they do?

EAGLE BOATS.

Admiral Coontz. We possess 54 eagle boats built under the emergency of the late war. Of those, 13 are in ordinary at Portsmouth, N. H., 4 are out of commission in different districts, 1 is serving with the marines at Quantico, 5 are with the various submarine detachments at San Pedro, Pearl Harbor, Coco Solo, and New London, and the remaining 29 are scattered over the various naval districts and used solely for the training of naval reservists.

The CHAIRMAN. I understood that you were going to dispense with the services of the Naval Reserve?

Admiral Coontz. I do not think you could. We are just waiting to bring in a bill to stabilize the Naval Reserve. They discharged : large number of them and stopped their pay, but they called for volunteers and a number at once reenlisted in class 6 without pay. My judgment is that it is a very necessary thing to train the Naval Reserve. I understand that the whole subject will be thrashed out shortly with a board.

Mr. KELLEY. Will the Naval Reserve be trained from week to week during the next six months?

Admiral Coontz. Yes, sir.
Mr. KELLEY. How many are there?

Admiral Coontz. I will have to give you the definite figure. There were 17,628 officers and men in class 6 on January 1, 1922.

Mr. KELLEY. Can not you close down that activity until you get your plans or legislation worked out?

Admiral COONTZ. They are working for nothing, and it would be a very serious thing.

Mr. KELLEY. If they are working for nothing, they are probably not doing very much.

Secretary Deney. You remember the old Naval Militia—they are doing very much the same work.

SUBMARINE CHASERS.

The CHAIRMAN. As to the submarine chasers, how many of those have you in the service! There are 45 marked here.

Admiral Coontz. There are still in the possession of the United States 78 subchasers out of 337 which we had at the end of the war, 31 in commission, 17 training reserves, 19 out of commission, 10 on sale, 10 that have been loaned to be kept in condition. It is the expectation of the department that by the 30th of June most of the 31 now in commission will be placed out of commission and placed on sale. We have some a long way from home, such as Constantinople, where there are two, and at various other places, but there is going to be a distinct gain in the next year's bill, because we get them home and sell them as fast as we can replace them.

The CHAIRMAN. We have 15 here?

Admiral Coontz. Yes, sir. We now have in commission 31 and lu training reserves 17. We expect to continue training the reserves with the 17 unless Congress directs otherwise, and the other 31 will be reduced by the end of the year.

Mr. KELLEY. If we had not built those boats, we could get along just as well and would not have that expense?

Admiral Coontz. They have done a good deal of service.

Mr. KELLEY. I know they have been useful in the war, but if we had not built them we would not build them now-there is no naval constructor who would.

Admiral COONTZ. The eagle boats and the subchasers have had their use.

Mr. KELLEY. That is true.

Admiral CoonTZ. The Secretary has told you the situation; we have gotten rid of about 600 out of 1,400. We are going to sell more. Since Mr. Denby came into office we have sold 240 ships.

Mr. KELLEY. These subchasers use up a tremendous amount of gasoline?

Admiral Coontz. If we did not have use for them, we would sell them.

Mr. KELLEY. What if you did not have them?
Admiral Coontz. I expect that you would pay money for tug hire.
Mr. KELLEY. You would not have to hire any tugs?
Admiral COONTZ. Not where they are.
Mr. KELLEY. It seems that you have a lot of them there?

Admiral Coontz. Yes, sir; but a tug at Constantinople—if you had to hire a tug there. We have been reducing them from 337 dowu to the 31 for ourselves now, and those 31 are going by the board as fas as possible.

MISCELLANEOUS BOATS.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask you what about this miscellaneous lot of 30 ships, the cost of which was $379,746.90, which seem to be all coal burners?

Admiral COONTZ. They are at the various navy yards.
The CHAIRMAN. These are all miscellaneous boats?

Admiral COONTZ. No, sir; they have various duties. I should like to have this entered fully in the record.

Helori, S. P. 181, motor boat, 92 feet long, ferry duty at nary yard, Puget Sound, six men.

Privateer, motor boat, 106 feet long, district tender at navy rard, New York, five men.

Samoset No. 2,000, freight and passenger steamer, 103 feet long, used with receiving ship, New York, no men regularly attached.

Traffic, freight steamer. 106 feet long, out of commission, nary yard, New York.

Transfer, freight steamer, 110 feet long, duty navy yard, New York, six men.

Zumbrota, motor boat, 69 feet long, used along Florida coast by commandant, Key West, five men.

Clio, freight and passenger steamer, 109 feet long, used at training station, Norfolk, in commission, nine men.

Commodore, old steamer, bedded in concrete at Chicago, used for training reservists, six men.

Cyane, ferryboat, 99 feet long, used at Newport as torpedo range tender, six men.

Faithful, ferry launch, 80 feet long, used at Newport as yard ferryboat, three

Ware, ferryboat, 105 feet long, used at Newport as yard ferryboat, civilian crew of nine men.

Narragansett, ferryboat, 117 feet long, used at Newport as yard ferryboat, civilian crew of nine men.

Porpoise, ferryboat, 185 feet long, used at Washington Navy Yard as passenger boat to Indianhead and Dahlgren, 24 men.

Grampus, freight and passenger steamer, 126 feet long, at Washington Nary Yard, in commission, not operating, eight men, alternates with Porpoise in operating

Geo. F. Pearce, freight and passenger boat, 121 feet long, at Philadelphia Navy Yard, out of commission (ordered).

Inca," ferryboat, 103 feet long, at Newport, R. I., out of commission, waiting transfer to fifth district.

Admiral Glass, ferryboat, 85 feet long, at Mare Island, in commission, six men, laid up for repairs, used for freight and passengers at San Francisco in naval transportation service.

Dart, ferry launch, 71 feet long, at Mare Island, in commission, five men navy-yard duty.

Leslie, ferry launch, 75 feet long, at Mare Island, in commission, 17 meni, used as fire launch.

men,

Castro, ferry launch, 75 feet long, at San Francisco, in commission, six men. used for freight and passengers in naval-transportation service at San Francisco.

1 Out of commission.

Vergana,' yacht, 125 feet long, at Mare Island, out of commission, to be sold.

Pinafore, ferry launch (small), at Mare Island, yard duty, in commission, five men.

Ambulance boat No. 1, formerly motor tug No. 97, hospital trips, naval-trans portation service between San Francisco and Mare Island, five men.

Ambulance boat No. 2, formerly motor tug No. 101, in commission, naval hospital, Norfolk, Va., four men.

Ambulance boat No. 3, formerly motor tug No. 101, out of commission, at Norfolk, Va.

Berceau,' ex-torpedo boat Talbot, 99 feet long, used as ferryboat at Indianhead, Md., now out of commission, minor repairs, no crew assigned.

Coast torpedo boat No. 6, ex-torpedo boat Morris, 138 feet long, at Newport, R. I., minor repairs, to be used as tender on torpedo testing barge, 11 men.

Marija, motor boat, 45 feet long, used at Charleston Navy Yard, three men.

Herreshoff No. 323. yacht, 112 feet long, used at Alexandria, Va., on torpedo testing range at Piney Point, Md., 12 men.

Shadyside, ferry launch, 85 feet long, civilian crew, ferry between Naval Academy and experimental station.

Mr. KELLEY. In making up this list now will it not be possible for you and the Secretary to make a further examination of these boats that seem to be of very little military service and see if the whole matter can not be eliminated ?

Secretary Denby. I think when you get through with the destroyers you will have pretty nearly combed down the matter to economy. However, I shall be glad to take that up.

Admiral Coontz. We can have it prepared, I take it, in 48 hours. The reason the figures differ from mine, we got this word Saturday night, and it was necessary to go into it. While Capt. Leutze worked from 2 p. m. Sunday until 9 a. m. this morning he was working on different figures. I think within 48 hours we can get it.

NAVAL TRANSPORT SERVICE.

The CHAIRMAN. The naval transport service, 33, they are coal burners and oil burners?

Capt. LEUTZE. The N. T. S. run special trips from New York to the west coast and save considerable money carrying navy freight, passengers, and fuel.

Mr. KELLEY. Is this what you call the naval overseas service?
Capt. LEUTZE. It used to be called that.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there any possibility of reducing the number of these?

Admiral COONTZ What number?
The CHAIRMAN. Thirty-three, Admiral.

Admiral Coontz. Yes, sir; there is a possibility of reducing those. I will be glad to put that in. The oilers to be handled are 13, the colliers come down to 4, and the transport cargo vessels to 10.

The CHAIRMAN. Twenty-seven against 33?

Admiral Coontz. Yes, sir; we will put them in the list. Oilers (13):

Arethusa, Atlantic coast.
Alameda, Norfolk; ordered out of commission.
Kaweah, fitting out at Philadelphia.
Laramie, fitting out at Norfolk.

1 Out of commission.

Oilers (13)–Continued.

Mattole, not yet taken over from Shipping Board.
Patoka, transpacific oil service.
Ramapo, transpacific oil service.
Rapidan, fitting out at Norfolk.
Salinas, fitting out at Norfolk.
Sapelo, oil service for vessels in Europe.
Sepulga, fitting out at Mare Island.
Tippecanoe, not yet taken over from Shipping Board.

Trinity, temporarily assigned to Atlantic Fleet.
Colliers (4):

Neptune, assigned to Atlantic Fleet.
Nereus, assigned to Atlantic Fleet.
Proteus, assigned to Atlantic Fleet.

Jason, assigned to Pacific Fleet.
Transports and cargo vessels (10):

Henderson, West Indies transport service.
Argonne, Atlantic-Pacific transport service.
Chaumont, Atlantic-Pacific transport service.
Kittery, West Indi freight service.
Beaufort, West Indies freight service.
Newport News, transpacific freight service.
l'ega, Atlantic-Pacific freight service.
Capella, Atlantic-Pacific freight service.
Sirius, Atlantic-Pacific freight service.
Cæsar, Hampton Roads.
Tutiula, to be placed out of commission about June 30.

Total, 27.

RESERVE SHIPS.

The CHAIRMAN. Here is a reserve battleship—I do not know the name—3,476 tons of coal at a cost of $22,734, a reserve cruiser?

Admiral COONTz, The cruiser known as the Charleston; she is at San Diego. She takes the place of the Birmingham, which takes the place of the Viagara, which we will place out of commission.

Mr. KELLEY. Please give some of the details when you make up the revised list.

Admiral COONTZ. Yes, sir.

Mr. KELLEY. Seventeen reserve submarines; you have already called our attention to them?

Admiral COONTz. Yes, sir.
Mr. KELLEY. Will you keep the 17 reserve submarines?
Admiral COONTZ. No; sell them.
Mr. KELLEY. They cost how much?
Admiral Coontz. $6,725.
Mr. KELLEY. Reserve mine sweepers, 12; you will cut those out?
Admiral Coontz. Yes, sir; as soon as out of commission.
Mr. KELLEY. You cut out $97,971. We have 213 reserve destroyers!
Admiral COONTZ. Yes.
Mr. KELLEY. The cost there is $2,187,203.58 ?

Admiral Coontz. The Secretary's proposition is to keep 76 in full commission and put 100 more out of commission, and the expense will be practically nil.

Mr. KELLEY. That will be shown in your revised list?
Admiral COONTz. Yes, sir.

Mr, KELLEY. Which one of the items include the armored cruisers and the other cruisers ?

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