Commander NOYES. By the order of the Secretary, no one is allowed to use this long-distance service except chiefs and assistant chiefs of bureaus and offices, or by their specific authority.

Mr. KELLEY. They might be perfectly justified in using the leased wire more freely, because it would not cost them any more.

Commander NOYES. We are operating on the same basis as if tolls were being charged, on a daily record.

Mr. SISSON. In other words, just as if you were paying tolls?

The CHAIRMAN. What he is trying to impress us with is this, that if they charged up the number of calls, and made a charge for each individual message, it would be more expensive than it would be to use a leased wire.

Mr. SISSON. Then, it does not matter how many times you use the wire.

Commander NOYES. It would cost no more.

Mr. BYRNS. Under those circumstances, is it any more likely that they would use the wires less for telegraph and telephone messages than they would if they were actually paying for them out of the direct appropriation?

Commander NOYES. There is no danger about the telegraph service, because none but the communication officers of the Navy Department have anything to do with it.

Mr. BYRNS. Do you not think that in the case of a good many of the calls they would use the mails instead of telephone and telegraph service if they were not using a leased wire?

Commander NOYES. I know that the Secretary, the Chief of Operations, and all of the bureau chiefs have made every effort to prevent that sort of thing.

Mr. KELLEY. What is the amount of the rental of the leased wires? Commander NOYES. Forty-eight thousand dollars a year.

Mr. SISSON. Where are they?

Commander NOYES. There is a telegraph wire from Norfolk to Washington, and one from Washington to Boston, with drops at Philadelphia, New York, Newport, and Portsmouth.

The CHAIRMAN. Can you telephone over those wires?
Commander NOYES. No, sir; those are telegraph wires.

Mr. SISSON. Are there any others?

Commander NOYES. There is a telephone wire from Norfolk to Washington, and a telephone wire from Washington to New York. There were originally four, including one to Philadelphia and two to New York, and we cut out two of them. We had four at the beginning of this year, and we cut out two, leaving two.

The CHAIRMAN. Why not cut out the other two?

Commander NOYES. Because in both cases the traffic would cost more if tolls were paid for the use of commercial lines than it does to rent the wires.

Mr. SISSON. That may be true, but they may be using the wires more than is necessary.

Commander NOYES. The Secretary has made every effort to prevent that. No one can say what would happen if they were cut

out.

Mr. SISSON. We might help the Secretary a good deal here. Commander NOYES. If the traffic can not be any further red it would cost that much more money than at present.

Mr. KELLEY. What bureau handles that?

Commander NOYES. The director of naval communications, but that office has nothing to do with the amount of the traffic.

The CHAIRMAN. You think you are justified in asking an increase of $72,000 to be paid out of this appropriation for telephone and telegraph service?

Commander NOYES. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You can not get along without it?
Commander NOYES. As far as we can tell; no, sir.

Mr. KELLEY. This is under "Pay, miscellaneous"?
Commander NOYES. Yes, sir.

Mr. KELLEY. How much will be left in the appropriation “Pay, miscellaneous" at the end of the year?

Commander NOYES. We have nothing to do with anything except this one subhead.

Mr. KELLEY. You are anticipating that there will be enough in "Pay, miscellaneous" to allow $72.000 more for this purpose, and I am wondering whether or not that fund is in excess of what you will need.

Admiral POTTER. We will have to make savings somewhere else in order to do that, and that will depend upon activities of the establishment diminishing.

Mr. KELLEY. What office does this work?

Commander NOYES. The office of the Director of Naval Communi

cations.

Mr. KELLEY. This request comes from that office?

Commander NoYES. The request for this amount of money was made to the Secretary, who decided to request that the limitation be raised, in which case he would find the necessary funds from other subheads.

Mr. KELLEY. The Office of Naval Communications made this request of the Secretary?

Admiral POTTER. This subhead is directly under the Chief of Operations.

The CHAIRMAN. I think the Secretary stated that he wanted this done.

Mr. SISSON. It is absolutely sure that the Secretary is consenting and agreeing to it, or it would not be done. We have found that the Secretary of War has put the brakes on pretty tight in such matters. and I would be much more gratified if the practices adopted by Secretary Weeks were more generally observed in all the departments. He has been appearing before another subcommittee on the Army bill, and I congratulated him upon being the one high executive officer who, in all the 16 years of my service here, has had absolute respect for the limitations imposed by law. With him the enforcement and observance of the law as prescribed by Congress is an absolute sine qua non in his department.

Mr. KELLEY. I think it is only fair to say that this limitation wamade last year because of what seemed to be an excessive use of funds for this purpose, and it may be that we made it too low. Mr. SISSON. I see they have exceeded the limit.

Commander NOYES. We have not yet exceeded the limit.

Mr. SISSON. We certainly ought not to grant this appropriation. if that is the case. If that is so we should not increase the limitation.

Commander NOYES. The total limitation has not yet been exceeded. Mr. SISSON. But at your present rate of expenditure, it will be exceeded before the end of the fiscal year, and I suppose this request was made upon the theory that you will use more money than you have allotted for this purpose.

CARE OF LEPERS, ISLAND OF GUAM.

The CHAIRMAN. For the care of lepers on the island of Guam, you have an estimate of $557.36.

Admiral POTTER. That is not under the Bureau of Supplies and Accounts, but as there seems to be nobody else here to speak for it I'll venture to try to do so. As to this amount of $557.36, the governor's report did not go into any detail. He has been asked for the details. I suppose the over obligation may have occurred because of an unexpected number of sick people. Evidently they have had more than they anticipated, and there is the cost of the transportation of these lepers from Guam to the island of Culion, in the Philippines, where there is a leper colony, to be considered.

The CHAIRMAN. You are not able to give the details of this? Admiral POTTER. No, sir. I understand the governor has not yet reported them.

PAYMENT TO BRADY AND GICE.

The CHAIRMAN. For payment to Brady and Gice for stevedoring and other charges, etc., you have an estimate of $1,749.55.

Admiral POTTER. During 1919, as an aftermath of the war, this matter arose. We entered into an arrangement with the Shipping Board during the war to deliver us certain vessels, and in turn we agreed to carry certain commercial cargoes for them. In pursuance of that agreement the steamer Sterling operated by us was loaded with sugar. The sugar was discharged at Long Island City. The stevedoring charges, through an error, were not paid. The stevedoring charges were actually incurred, but the department was not notified of them until after the amount for the freight received for carrying the sugar was turned into the Treasury as miscellaneous receipts. Otherwise, the stevedoring charges would have been deducted from the freight.

The CHAIRMAN. So that this is really not a new charge
Admiral POTTER. No, sir; it is simply to get it corrected.

Mr. KELLY. There would not have been quite as much freight money turned in if this bill had been presented in time? Admiral POTTER. No, sir.

PAYMENT TO DONA CONCEPCION CRUZ.

The CHAIRMAN. For payment to Dona Concepcion Cruz, you ask $350.

Admiral POTTER. During the Philippine insurrection, in 1899, there was a casco, which is a lighter without other power than man power, commandeered, and it has never been settled for. The claim has been presented for seven or eight years. The Manila court has decided that it is a just charge, and it has been presented to Congress once or twice before.

The CHAIRMAN. It is a claim?

Admiral POTTER. Yes, sir; it is a claim not yet paid.

The CHAIRMAN. Has it been adjudicated and a judgment obtained for it?

Admiral POTTER. Yes, sir; a judgment was rendered by the court of first instance at Manila. There is a law authorizing them to do so, but that does not give them the money.

Mr. BYRNS. What is a casco?

Admiral POTTER. It is a great big thing like a coal lighter.
The CHAIRMAN. It is like a scow.

Admiral POTTER. Yes, sir, like a scow. The people live in them
as the Chinese do, and spend their lives on them.
Mr. SISSON. Is this matter pending in court yet?
Admiral POTTER. No, sir; it has been decided.

The CHAIRMAN. What jurisdiction has that court at Manila to render judgment in such a matter?

Mr. SISSON. That is what I want to find out. Has final judgment been rendered against the Government, or has the Government any appeal to any other court?

Admiral PoTTER. No, sir.

Mr. SISSON. It is a final judgment against the Government?
Admiral POTTER. Yes, sir.

Mr. SISSON. Has the amount been passed by the auditor here or the comptroller?

Admiral POTTER. It has not been to the comptroller.

Mr. SISSON. Then, it is not an audited claim?

Admiral POTTER. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. This is a judgment rendered by a Philippine court?

Admiral POTTER. Yes, sir. There is a note in regard to it, which I will read:

* *

Section 9 of the act of Congress approved July 1, 1902 (32 Stat. L., 695), provides that the courts of first instance of the Philippine Islands shall possess and exercise jurisdiction as heretofore provided and such additional jurisdiction as shall hereafter be prescribed by the government of said islands," etc.; and by act No. 535 of the Philippine Commission, approved November 25, 1902, jurisdiction was conferred upon the court of first instance of the city of Manila to hear and determine this class of cases. A judgment rendered by the court, therefore, would appear to be a legal obliagtion against the United States Government.

The CHAIRMAN. Should not this money be taxed against the Philippine revenues instead of against the Federal Government?

Admiral POTTER. This casco was taken possession of by the Federal Government in 1899 when we had a campaign in the Philippines. Mr. SISSON. That does not answer the question. In other words, you have no right to sue the Federal Government unless the court is authorized to take jurisdiction by act of Congress or unless the claimants are authorized to bring suit in the Court of Claims. Here is a judgment rendered against the United States Government by a court in the Philippine Islands, when our own courts can not render judgment against the United States unless the party is authorized by Congress to bring suit.

Admiral POTTER. Reference is made in this note to an act of Congress approved July 1, 1902.

The CHAIRMAN. That was three years after it happened, and the question is whether it could be made retroactive.

Mr. SISSON. Without more facts in the case, I doubt extremely whether this should be allowed.

BUREAU OF SUPPLIES AND ACCOUNTS.

FREIGHT DEFICIENCY FOR 1921.

The CHAIRMAN. You have some deficiency estimates here for freight?

Admiral POTTER. You will find from the record that the amount asked for in 1921 for freight totaled $9,200,000. The amount allowed, including the deficiency allowed, was $8,500,000. I am informed that at the time the estimate was made they thought it would take at least $9,200,000. That proved to be nearly $200,000 too much, so that the actual deficiency that has been incurred, above the amount allowed by Congress, was $518,500.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you consider that for the class of items enumerated here you have a right to create a deficiency?

Admiral POTTER. That is allowed by law. Do you mean the legal right?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. REED. Yes, sir; section 3732, Revised Statutes, allows the making of contracts by the War and Navy Departments for clothing, subsistence, forage, fuel, quarters, and transportation.

Admiral POTTER. The law covers that.

Mr. SISSON. You have practically the same statute as that which applies to the Army?

Admiral PoTTER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. This has been gone into carefully?

Admiral POTTER. Yes, sir; there are no wages represented in that. It is for railroad bills.

The CHAIRMAN. It is for transportation.

Admiral POTTER. Yes, sir. It includes the transportation of miscellaneous materials, but it is not for services, except the services of the railroad. It is not for the transportation of men, and it does not involve any wages or labor.

Mr. SISSON. It does not involve the transportation of ordnance supplies or guns?

Admiral POTTER. There are doubtless some ordnance transportation items in there.

The CHAIRMAN. It would not be within the jurisdiction of the department to create a deficiency for that, would it?

Admiral POTTER. That might be a part of the freight under a f. o. b. works contract. There might be some transportation of shell included in it. That, of course, would be a charge against freight. All of the freight of the Naval Establishment is paid for under one appropriation.

Mr. SISSON. Including freight for subsistence and clothing?
Admiral POTTER. Yes, sir.

Mr. SISSON. Do you construe the statute to give you the right to create a deficiency for transportation on things not enumerated in the statute?