THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 16, 1922.

CHARITIES AND CORRECTIONS.

STATEMENT OF MR. GEORGE S. WILSON, SECRETARY.

WASHINGTON ASYLUM AND JAIL,

PROVISIONS, ETC., FOR HOSPITAL.

The CHAIRMAN. For the Washington Asylum Hospital and Jail, I notice that you have a deficiency for 1920 of $1,307.35, and for 1921, $1.244.61.

Mr. WILSON. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How does that occur?

Mr. WILSON. Mr. Chairman, I do not know all of the details about that. I am very happy to say that we have not had habitual deficiencies. I may say this, that while we have a few here now, during the preceding few years, when we were in good times, the charitable institutions turned back very considerable balances into the Treasury for a period of three years in succession, not a particular institution, but many of them.

The CHAIRMAN. Has that anything to do with this appropriation? Mr. WILSON. I understand that the controlling reason in this case was a change in the price of the fuel as given to us at the time the requisitions were made. I know the superintendent told me in both instances, because there were two men-one who died, and another, his successor-that they did not have deficiencies. I do know of the Home for the Aged and Infirm, where a deficiency arose, that a price was given to us when we ordered a large quantity of coal and an increased price appeared when the bills were rendered-as much as $1.50 a ton increase.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you any names of the people to whom payment was made?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes, sir; we owe the entire amount to the Government Fuel Yards. As Mr. Wilson has said, the deficiency in this appropriation is due entirely to the very significant difference between the estimated price of the fuel in advance of the order of the fuel and the price charged on the rendition of the accounts.

The CHAIRMAN. To what are these two bills due?

Mr. DONOVAN. These two bills are due primarily to the very significant difference in prices, as between the estimated cost furnished us by the Bureau of Mines at the time the requisitions were made for delivery of the fuel and the cost that appeared on the account when rendered.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you make any contract with them covering the price you are to pay?

Mr. DONOVAN. They charge whatever price they see fit, and we have no discretion in the premises whatever. We assume that it is the general price charged the departments, but we do not assume to question the accounts of the fuel yard.

The CHAIRMAN. Why not?

Mr. DONOVAN. We do not have the right to. The District government is not as big as Uncle Sam.

The CHAIRMAN. But if one branch of the Government is selling goods to another branch, the branch that is buying the goods should have the right to make a contract covering the price.

Mr. WILSON. I thought we had to accept it at their price.

The CHAIRMAN. I think under the law you have to accept it, but you should be advised as to the price.

Mr. WILSON. I only know this, that because of conditions which they probably could not avoid, the bills were not submitted to us until long beyond the close of the fiscal year. In one instance it was five months after the close of the fiscal year.

The CHAIRMAN. Have these bills been audited?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes, sir; the accounts have been approved as due and payable.

SUPPORT OF PRISONERS.

The CHAIRMAN. For the support of prisoners you are asking a deficiency appropriation of $277.97 for 1921.

Mr. WILSON. Mr. Chairman, I can only say that we are still dealing with the same institution, the Washington Asylum and jail. That is a part of the same set of circumstances. They apportion the charge.

Mr. DONOVAN. It is one heating plant for two institutions.
The CHAIRMAN. This money is due to whom?
Mr. DONOVAN. To the Government fuel yard.

The CHAIRMAN. The account has been audited?
Mr. DONOVAN. Yes, sir.

NATIONAL TRAINING SCHOOL FOR BOYS.

CARE AND MAINTENANCE OF BOYS.

The CHAIRMAN. For the National Training School for Boys you ask a deficiency of $1,610.42 for the fiscal year 1921.

Mr. DONOVAN. That is the balance due this Federal institution, under our contract for the fiscal year 1921.

The CHAIRMAN. What caused this deficiency?

Mr. DONOVAN. The number of children sent there at the price agreed upon in the contract, and I believe the law fixes the annual rate.

Mr. WILSON. It authorizes the board of trustees to fix it at actual cost.

The CHAIRMAN. How many children are there?

Mr. WILSON. The number varies between 150 and 200 District boys. The CHAIRMAN. Are all of them from the District of Columbia? Mr. WILSON. No, sir; about three-fourths of the total; in addition to that there are some boys that are not reckoned with here, but who are Federal charges coming in from outside the District.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the annual per capita cost?
Mr. WILSON. For the fiscal year 1921 it was $353.35.

The CHAIRMAN. What are these boys committed to the National Training School for?

Mr. WILSON. For offenses recognizable by the law, but not such offenses as they would ordinarily send an adult to prison for. The

law provides that children under 17, boys, or girls, shall be sent to these training schools, except for a few stated major crimes like murder, burglary, etc.

The CHAIRMAN. Is this deficiency of $1,610.42 for 1922 due to the fact that you had a larger number of boys in the institution than the appropriation would pay for?

Mr. WILSON. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And the account has been audited?

Mr. DONOVAN. Yes, sir. Unless we pay it, it will stand as a charge against the Federal appropriation, and later on some Member of Congress will come along and want us to pay it back.

The CHAIRMAN. This is paid out of District revenues solely?
Mr. DONOVAN. No. sir; it is on the 60-40 basis.

Mr. WILSON. The number of boys sent there is something beyond the control of the administrative authorities.

The CHAIRMAN. That is done by the action of the courts?
Mr. WILSON. Yes, sir.

MEDICAL CHARITIES.

CARE AND TREATMENT OF INDIGENT PATIENTS.

The CHAIRMAN. For the care and treatment of indigent patients under contract to be paid by the Board of Charities, etc., you have an estimate of $1,170.45 for the fiscal year 1921, and one of $9,500 for the fiscal year 1922. Those deficiencies appear to arise under the contract with the Central Dispensary and Emergency Hospital.

CENTRAL DISPENSARY AND EMERGENCY HOSPITAL.

Mr. WILSON. As you propably know, this is the General Emergency Hospital, up in the center of the city, beyond the White House, that cares for accident cases.

The CHAIRMAN. It is back of the theater?

Mr. WILSON. It was back of the theater, but the new building is at Seventeenth Street and New York Avenue, beyond the State, War and Navy Building.

The CHAIRMAN. What classes of patients go there?

Mr. WILSON. Only those known as casualty cases, originating in accidents or calamities, or something of that kind.

The CHAIRMAN. How many people are there as a general rule? Mr. WILSON. It has been running along at about this rate: In 1916 the daily average was 48, and it fell down in the following years to 41, 30, 39, 24, and then went up to 28. We are running this year at about 40 again. You will notice that the appropriation was very considerably reduced in those years when we had smaller numbers. It would seem that we have gone back to the old basis. We have had to raise the rates somewhat. It was formerly $1.50, then $1.75, and we now allow $2 per day for patients kept in the hospital.

The CHAIRMAN. The hospital pays its own expenses?
Mr. WILSON. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Is this a private institution?

Mr. WILSON. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. It is supported by the District of Columbia to the extent that emergency cases are sent there?

Mr. WILSON. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Do they take other cases?

Mr. WILSON. Yes, sir. The major part of their work now is in the care of private pay cases. For instance, last year, as indicating the extent of that, while we paid them something less than $20,000, their receipts from pay patients were over $146,000.

The CHAIRMAN. We pay at the rate of $2 per day?

Mr. WILSON. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. The deficiency for the fiscal year 1921 is $1,170.45. Why was not that submitted sooner?

Mr. DONOVAN. I think you had one set of deficiency estimates in November, last, but at that time we construed the instructions we received from the Budget Bureau as confining us to immedate emergency items. For that reason we did not submit any estimates for

general deficiencies.

The CHAIRMAN. What about the item of $9,500 for 1922, or what is the occasion for that?

Mr. WILSON. On the same basis as to rates, running for the current year, we spent in six months $14,785.95.

The CHAIRMAN. The rate is the same.

Mr. WILSON. Yes, sir; $2 per day. There are a number of rates at both of these hospitals, because, in addition to the ward patients, we allow them 75 cents for accident cases picked up in the streets. Such a case is taken in, the injury is dressed and the patient goes home. Then we allow them 30 cents for redressing the wound if the patient comes back. There is a schedule of rates published here.

The CHAIRMAN. These rates do not seem to be exorbitant. Mr. WILSON. They are in every instance, to the best of our information and knowledge, less than the actual cost, because we regard this institution as one doing charitable work. The Government has in some measure recognized that by aiding them at times.

The CHAIRMAN. I notice that you ask an appropriation of $24,000 for 1923 under this head, while your appropriation for 1922 is $20,000. If you add that to this item of $9,500 it will make an appropriation of $29,521 for 1922.

Mr. WILSON. Yes, sir; and unless conditions are greatly improved our estimate will prove quite inadequate.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you mean the $29,521 or the $24,000 for 1923? Mr. WILSON. The $24,000 for next year. We are finding in our hospitals that our increased estimate has not been sufficiently increased to meet the bills that are going to accrue.

The CHAIRMAN. You judge that you will need $9,500 from your experience during the first six months?

Mr. WILSON. Yes, sir. It is quite fair to remind you that during the time when the number of patients was less, for reasons that we all appreciate, I think, we turned back considerable balances under our estimates.

The CHAIRMAN. The patients who are sent to the Emergency Hospital and paid for out of this fund are people who are unable to pay for their own care?

Mr. WILSON. So far are we know. We have one inspector who visits the hospital three times a week and interviews the patients. The CHAIRMAN. You never pay bills for those who are able to pay themselves?

Mr. WILSON. Not knowingly. Of course, we make mistakes sometimes, and in a few instances we have been able to recover amounts paid. For instance, under the recent employees' compensation law we have found upon investigation in some cases that the employer was liable, and we were able to get our money back.

The CHAIRMAN. You always try to do that?

Mr. WILSON. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you ever sue them?

Mr. WILSON. We never have had to sue. We have had a little coming to us through the courts in the case of deceased persons.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you think there would be any serious embarrassment to you if you did not get this $9,500?

Mr. WILSON. I think that the hospital would probably continue to receive the cases, but I think it would be a great hardship upon them, and it would not be strictly in good faith, because the Government by its action has recognized them as a Government agency in caring for emergency cases, and has made these appropriations in the past to the extent of even $25,000 a year. They would feel that it was a great hardship. We do know that they have approached us and have stated very frankly that if the conditions were such now that the Government could do the work, they would prefer not to take it. They will not say that they will not do it, because in past years the Government has recognized them and has helped them toward their buildings, etc. I think it would mean a great hardship to them, but I believe that the people back of that institution would go to work to meet the situation. They are now raising money each year to help meet the expense, and they would raise more. However, the city would be absolutely helpless if they did not do the service, because you have never established any emergency service of a public character.

The CHAIRMAN. This institution is justified, or our participation in it is justified, is it not?

Mr. WILSON. That raises a question of policy. You may recall that many years ago the policy recommended by the commissioners and suggested by the Board of Charities was that, instead of the Government putting its money into buildings for private hospitals, it should establish its own service. That was not done at the time, and under the present conditions I think that the Government is quite obligated to continue to do this until it provides something better.

The CHAIRMAN. I think that it was the thought then, and perhaps that has been the thought ever since, that it was more economical to operate hospitals under private control, and that at the same time. it would give the community more abundant opportunity to diffuse the activities of this kind.

Mr. WILSON. I am frank to admit that the Government will get this service done at less cost to itself through private agencies than if it should perform the service directly, but, on the other hand, as a matter of public policy, I think there is a great deal of weight in the argument that if the Government does not aid all charities.