Sir WILLIAM LYNE.-I say that the expenditure to which the honorable member refers was incurred in despatching contingents to South Africa. Mr. JOSEPH COOK.-The Government of which the honorable member was the head appropriated millions of pounds worth of trust funds after that. Sir WILLIAM LYNE.-I asked the New South Wales Parliament to idemnify me for doing so. I told the House that I intended to spend money in eradicating the bubonic plague-I did not expend it behind the backs of Parliament and the country. I claim that it is a disgrace to the Federation that an honorable member who has been guilty of such financial manipulation and blundering in New South Wales, and whose administration has been censured by such a board of experts, should hold the position of Prime Minister of the Commonwealth. Mr. JOSEPH COOK. Is the honorable member going to speak of the other board? Sir WILLIAM LYNE.-I do not know much about that board. Its members were appointed privately by the present Prime Minister. One of its members wrote to me asking me to appoint him in conjunction with Mr. T. A. Dibbs and Mr. Russell French. As a result, I concluded that he might just as well be omitted from consideration. know, however, that he visited the right honorable gentleman at his private house, and there discussed the question of the finances. I Mr. JOSEPH COOK.-I do not believe it. Sir WILLIAM LYNE.-It is absolutely true. The second Board was merely ap pointed for the purpose of white-washing the right honorable gentleman. Mr. JOSEPH COOK.-It consisted of the three best accountants in Australia. Sir WILLIAM LYNE.-No; I had the services of the three best accountants. There is one other charge which I wish to make against the Prime Minister, and one other objection which I desire to urge against his occupancy of his present position. He was deposed from office in New South Wales practically as the result of bribing a member to support his Government. These are hard words to say, but I have all the particulars at my command. Upon a critical division one member of the New South Wales Parliament who came into contact with the Prime Minister, who was then Premier of that State, changed his attitude towards the Government and abstained from voting against it. I dis covered some months afterwards that he had been paid the sum of £350, and I have not the slightest doubt that that payment was responsible for his altered political attitude. Mr. JOSEPH COOK.-For what was that amount paid? Will the honorable member be good enough to tell the House? Sir WILLIAM LYNE.-Yes. When a certain Member of the Legislative Assembly of New South Wales was about to visit England, the Premier was asked by the Chairman of a Select Committee, which had been inquiring into some matter-I think it lishing a system of old-age pensionswas the desirableness or otherwise of estabGovernment. In reply, the present Prime whether that member would be paid by the Minister stated I do not know if I can be interrogated by the honorable member as Chairman of a Select Committee of the House. I will answer his question as that of an ordinary member of the House. I do not exactly know what the honorable member means by a commission. I think we intrusted one of that kind to him. Mr. O'SULLIVAN.-We are doing our duty, zealously and persistently. Mr. REID.-I am glad to hear it, or rather, I am surprised at it. With reference to the subject of the question, I desire to say that the honorable member for Paddington, who is about to visit England, has been empowered by the Government to make such inquiry, but he has consented to do that without the slightest remuneration, either in the way of allowance for expenses or otherwise. He will do so without the slightest expense to the Government. Had he not given that reply a motion of no-confidence in the Government would undoubtedly have been submitted. The memher to whom I have referred visited England, and upon his return railed against the Government, and announced his intention As the reof voting with the Opposition. sult of an interview with the Premier, however, he did not vote at all. I suspected consulted the Auditor-General, who showed what had taken place, and accordingly I able member in question. me that £350 had been paid to the honor Mr. FISHER. Was that expenditure not shown upon the Estimates? Sir WILLIAM LYNE.-I discovered it in the Auditor-General's report. It was not stated as a gift to the honorable member in question, and I could not ascertain where it was shown, but the Auditor-General enlightened me upon the point. He showed me where it was included, and that is how I discovered that the payment had been made. An HONORABLE MEMBER.-Was not that money returned to the Treasury? Sir WILLIAM LYNE.-I believe that those responsible for its payment became alarmed when the motion of censure was projected, and repaid it into the Treasury. Mr. FISHER. That is the worst feature of it. Sir WILLIAM LYNE.-Yes. I am not going to be mealy - mouthed on the question, and I would point out that the person who did that was the right honorable gentleman who is Prime Minister of the Commonwealth to-day. Nothing on earth would ever induce me to support a man who has been guilty of what that right honorable gentleman has been guilty of. Mr. JOSEPH COOK. The honorable gentleman is saying now what he dare not say outside. It is very plucky of him. Sir WILLIAM LYNE.-I dare not say it outside? I have said it many times. I have said that he paid money as a political bribe. Mr. JOSEPH COOK. The honorable gentleman dare not say that outside. Sir WILLIAM LÝNE.-And the New South Wales Legislative Assembly, believing that to have been done, defeated the right honorable gentleman by thirty-three votes. Mr. JOSEPH COOK.-Let the honorable gentleman say it outside, where he can be answered. Sir WILLIAM_LYNE.-The Assembly | defeated the right honorable gentleman, I say, by thirty-three votes, and it was not because of the £350, but because of the way in which it had been paid, and the purpose for which it was paid. Mr. JOSEPH COOK.-It is a plucky thing for the honorable gentleman to talk of a man who is not here to answer him. Mr. SPEAKER.-Order. The honorable member for Parramatta must not continue his interruptions. Sir WILLIAM LYNE.-I have felt bound to refer to the matter, as it has been brought up. I do not think it was wise for the right honorable gentleman to bring up the matter. I should probably not have referred to it at all if he had not done so, but as he has done so I am bound to make a reply. Mr. JOSEPH COOK.-And the honorable gentleman has given a complete misrepresentation of the matter now. Sir WILLIAM LYNE.--I desire simply to add that, so far as the members of the Labour Party are concerned, they know as well as I do that the alliance on this side is open and above-board. There is nothing of a socialistic character of which I disapprove in that alliance. They are aware that I go a very great way in support of State Socialism, in the prevention of monopolies, and in support of all that is humane, and in the interests of the flesh and blood of the community. I do not approve of trading in the flesh and blood of the country. I believe that we are bound to stand by the weaker portion of the community, whilst the strong can stand by themselves. There is, to my mind, a very great deal underlying the statement recently made by the Bishop of Hobart. If others of the church would pay more attention to work for the benefit of humanity, it would be better. It is the absence of effort in that direction which has really created the Salvation Army. In my opinion that organization does a great deal more of good than we can entirely estimate at the present time, and that is so because some of those in the various churches do not give attention to certain classes to whom they should give attention. Mr. JOSEPH COOK.--Why does not the honorable gentleman go into church and help them? Sir WILLIAM LYNE.-I depute that to the honorable member for Parramatta, who is in the pulpit very often. Mr. JOSEPH COOK.-That is what the man outside the church always says. SO Sir WILLIAM LYNE.-I know that an attempt is being made to frighten the . people of Australia by raising this cry against Socialism. I do not think there is the slightest danger that we shall be troubled with extreme Socialism. I agree with what the Bishop of Hobart has graphically said on the subject, and I should hesitate before allying myself with the extreme phase of Socialism. I believe that the Labour members of the House have received but scant courtesy, and, indeed, unfair play. I think that the people of Australia like to see fair play. Also, they do not like to see a political party cut in two, and severed in such a way by graspers for office that it may never be joined together again. The free-trade engineers on the other side have been successful in cutting the Protectionist Party in two. They are using every endeavour, and will lose no opportunity to still further divide the party and advance their own cause. I should like to know what position a party can hope to be in if it does not stand solidly to its guns all the time in opposition to the solid battery on the other side. Members of the Protectionist Party who are now to be found on the other side are not standing to their guns. If they are not careful they will find, when they go before the electors, that the party has been so cut in two that it will have little chance against the strong phalanx of those opposed to it. I do not know whether my hope will be realized, but I do hope that better counsels will in future prevail, and that a time will come, and that before long, when a truly Liberal Party, which should embrace twothirds of the members of this House, will be found voting in the interests of the people of Australia for protection, which is the only policy by which we can insure that a proper labour wage shall be paid. Mr. EWING (Richmond).-It has been stated that in a debate of this description every honorable member is entitled to speak his mind. I take it that every honorable member is entitled to speak his mind on all occasions in Parliament, and to speak it in that euphonious, gentle, and courteous English which we have heard from the honorable member for Hume. I understand that in this debate I am permitted to go this far, and no further I am permitted to charge those opposed to me with corruption and with bribing their friends to vote in a certain way. I hope that the honorable member for Hume will not leave the chamber for a moment, as I have a word or two to say to him. Sir WILLIAM LYNE.-I do not pay the slightest attention to what the honorable member says. Mr. EWING.-I believe that the honorable gentleman will find it advisable to pay some attention to what I shall say before I have done with him. It is well understood that what we say in public life, or within the walls of this Chamber, has no bearing upon any man's private character, and that anything we say here is said purely in a political sense. Though we might know something which would not redound to the private character of our political antagonists, we should not be entitled to make use of incidents connected with their private life for any political purposes. The appeal which the honorable member for Hume makes to the House, and to the country, is primarily an appeal in defence of protection. The honorable member is the great protectionist -the man who stands before the people of New South Wales as the incarnation and great exemplar of protection. Let me tell the honorable gentleman, or let his friends tell him for me, as he did not see fit to remain, that the man who has ruined protection in New South Wales is the honorable member for Hume. I am sorry to have to say this kind of thing in the absence of the honorable gentleman; but it is not my fault that he is not present. Protection in New South Wales had a case which it did not possess in any of the other States. The potentialities of all the States were great, and undoubtedly the capacity of the people to make good use of them was considerable; but the position in New South Wales differed materially from that in the other States, inasmuch she possessed the motive power for industry-she had the coal. On that account there was in no other State anything like the opportunity for establishing a protectionist policy that there was in the mother State. We had got together a very considerable, a fairly representative, and a tolerably intelligent Protectionist Party, when the honorable member for Hume joined us. It was like making ensilage. The Protectionist Party in New South Wales had got together a splendid heap of men, capable of stating their case intelligently and reasonably, and with a good case to state, when the honorable member for Hume crawled on to the top of the heap. As honorable members are aware, in making ensilage, as soon as you have a sufficiently large heap, you parbuckle, by means of bullocks, a heavy log on to the top of the stack. There was no need to parbuckle the honorable member for Hume on to the protectionist stack in New South Wales; he climbed there. He got on top of the heap, and, to the destruction of protection in that State, he has sat there ever since until the party has sunk so low that at the present time there are only four representatives of protection in the mother State in the Federal Parliament. The others have been destroyed by the honorable member for Hume. The honorable members for Eden-Monaro, Riverina, and myself, are amongst the four, and every one of us knows that every time the honorable member for Hume touches the question of protection he does so to its destruction. Mr. CHANTER.-I do not subscribe to for him to say that his guns were not good enough, or that his soldiers were not fit to fight-the general must accept the responsibility of failure. thing to which I might reply, but I find that there was absolutely nothing. I took notes of the honorable gentleman's speech, but he said only three things to which a Mr. MCDONALD. He should not go reply may be made. over to join the opposing forces. Mr. EWING. Where is the Protectionist Party of New South Wales to-day? Where are the men who have been identified with the honorable member for Hume for the last few years, and who have really carried the honorable gentleman, put up with him, and tolerated him until now, when he has made a blind bolt for Socialism, and when they have to tell him that they must leave him? Where are those men now Where are the men like Beale, Sandford, and others--the bulwarks of the Protectionist Party in New South Wales, who did all they possibly could for protection? Their position has been destroyed by has been destroyed by I have the honorable member for Hume. I have no desire to be unfair or unjust to the honorable gentleman, and I therefore speak of him temperately and reasonably, when I might make an indictment against him which would be very serious. Mr. MAHON.-One which the honorable member would regret. Mr. EWING.-I understand that certain things may be said, and that certain other things should not be said. I shall say no more about the honorable member for Hume at this stage, because I understand the honorable gentleman is shortly leaving the country. It will probably be news for honorable members to hear that they may not see the honorable gentleman in this House for very much longer. I have heard that the Japanese are experiencing a very great deal Their of trouble in taking Port Arthur. guns have made but very little impression upon it, and it is hoped that if the honorable member for Hume can be induced to sit on the top of Port Arthur, he will smash it as effectually as he has smashed everything he has so far had to deal with. In his absence, I must be fair to the honorable gentleman's political failings. Mr. MAHON.-That is something new for the honorable gentleman. Mr. EWING.-It is something new for me? Honorable gentlemen opposite do not understand me, because I have capacity for forgiving them. I do not propose to deal with the alleged corruption by the present Prime Minister, the statement about his having given a bribe to secure a vote. I thought that I should get from the speech of the honorable member for Hume some It appears that the honorable gentleman is much in favour of Mr. WEBSTER.-The honorable member knows that the State Government had not the legal power to resume those estates at the time he asked them to do so. Mr. EWING.-We have not the legal power to do anything if we do not desire to do it. I desire to address a few words to honorable members with regard to the The charge position position of protectionists. against many honorable members on this side to-day is that, being protectionists, we have It is not for me to no right to be here. make clear the attitude of the free-trader. It is not necessary for me to make any special reference to the attitude of the Socialistic Party opposite. It is necessary for me at this stage only to point out why, being a protectionist, I find myself here to-day. First of all, the protectionists did not sink the fiscal issue-it was the people who sank it. When this Parliament was elected, as I stated once before, Federal politicians were, like Gaul, "divided into three parts," equal in numbers. although not equal in intelligence. The course, Protectionist Party was, of the most intelligent party. I am sure that protectionist members opposite will still permit me to make that statement. The protectionists numbered twenty-five, and who but a madman would, with such a following, have made a fight in a House of seventy-five. The Prime Minister, with a similar following, recognised that it was impossible to continue the free-trade fight, and the honorable and learned member for Ballarat saw that the protectionist fight could not be successful. Mr. WEBSTER. It was not impossible to continue the fight. Mr. EWING.-It was impossible to win. What is the use of fighting when nothing but blows are gained? What we desire is to secure a fiscal policy which will be of advantage to the interests of Australia; but under the circumstances it was useless to go on fighting. Still, we remain in possession of that policy, and, that being so, what possible abandonment of protection has there been? It was not office that we were seeking; it was the establishment of protection, and we have maintained that policy. Only one-eighth of the representation of New South Wales in this Parliament is protectionist. The six senators from that State are free-traders, and only four out of the twenty-six representatives which it sends to this House are protectionists. But we still retain our protectionist policy, and, under the circumstances, what more could any one who had as much sense as an opossum ask for? Going a step further, I ask, who is in charge of the Customs Department at the present moment? Honorable members heard him speak last night—an adroit, young, romantic, able, and intelligent protectionist. And who is in charge of the Treasury? A protectionist, the right honorable member for Balaclava, whose figures the present Prime Minister, even when opposed to him, never questioned; a man who when he says that a thing is true is believed all over Australia. The protectionists were elected to support those men, under the leadership of the honorable and learned member for Ballarat, a gentleman of whom I do not like to say in his presence what I think. He has endeared himself to us all by his private character, while his oratory is something to be emulated by the growing generation, and his self-denial absolutely paralyzes politicians of the type of the honorable member for Hume. We are now asked to abandon these men, who are the only hope of protectionists throughout Australia, and to follow men who caused the Labour or the Socialistic Party to hold their political nostrils while dealing with them in negotiation. The reason that the honorable member for Hume gives for being in the camp of the Opposition is that it is a protectionist camp. Let us examine that statement. There is no excuse for the small selvage of the Protectionist Party being in Opposition unless they are with protectionists. But has any one of its members ever said that the Labour or Socialistic Party, as its members glory to call themselves, is a Protectionist Party? No. What, then, is the excuse of the honorable member for Hume, and the honorable and learned members for Indi and Darling Downs? with regard to the fiscal views of the Socialwhich they place above free-trade or proistic or Labour Party? They have an ideal tection. What are the facts identified with the good of the human famThey believe that Socialism is ily, and they scorn the idea of being swayed by the doctrines of free-trade or protection. They say that the socialistic policy is as high above the fiscal policy as the sky is above the earth. Therefore, the honorable member for Hume and others are endeavouring to lead the protectionists, not into a protectionist alliance, but into a socialistic alliance. The honorable members for Perth and Canobolas, and the honorable and learned member for West Sydney, who are members of the Socialistic Party, are free-traders who have made some of the ablest speeches in defence of free-trade which have been heard in this Chamber. The adroitness and more than wisdom of their party is shown in this, that its policy allows its members to talk free-trade on the wharves of Sydney, and protection in the streets of Melbourne. It eliminates fiscalism, and welds together those of different fiscal the Labour Party promised their free-trade constituents that they would not have any faiths. At the last elections the members of thing to do with protection. They said that they were not a protectionist party. Mr. WEBSTER.-That is not correct. Mr. EWING.-The honorable member knows that hundreds of free-traders voted for him, while the honorable and learned member for West Sydney delivered to his constituents on the wharves at Sydney speeches which were even more free-trade, if possible, than those of the Prime MinisThe Labour Party promised their free-trade supporters that they would not ter. |