ports of the group, without transhipment, direct from Sydney, instead of viâ Lord Howe and Norfolk Islands. The existing service to Lord Howe and Norfolk Islands will be maintained without alteration, except that it will be carried on by a different vessel. Then as to the Gilbert and Ellice Groups, the service will be the same as at present. To the Marshall Islands quarterly trips will be made. Monthly trips will be made between the Commonwealth and New Guinea. Mr. WATSON. As compared with what? Mr. REID.-At present the trips are made every two months, so that instead of six trips a year there will be twelve. The introduction of two additional ocean-going steamers into the service will give increased facilities for intercourse between the Commonwealth and the Pacific Islands, and we think and both our immediate predecessors in office agree that we are making a good arrangement. Both the Deakin and the Watson Governments went very carefully into the matter, and they agree that we shall be getting the worth of our money. Mr. FISHER. What company will perform the service? Co. Mr. REID.—Messrs. Burns, Philp, and HONORABLE MEMBERS.-Oh, oh! Mr. REID.-Well, the service cannot be carried on in war canoes; some one has to do the work. Messrs. Burns, Philp, and Co. offer special inducement by providing free passages to intending settlers. Mr. TUDOR. Is that because they own land in the islands, and want to get rid of it? All Mr. REID.—I believe that they are giving the land to settlers free of cost. that surely is strengthening the grip of the Commonwealth upon the island trade. An opposite policy would not do much good. Considering that three sets of Ministers have considered this matter-the leader of the Opposition has had this matter under his most careful consideration-I think that honorable members may rest satisfied that we are getting the worth of our money. Mr. PAGE (Maranoa).-Having listened to the explanation of the Prime Minister, I confess that I do not thoroughly grasp it, and I do not intend to support a vote of £6,000 upon a bald statement such as he has made. I wish to know what this money is to be voted for? What are the products of these islands? Mr. ROBINSON.-Cocoanuts. Mr. PAGE-I do not intend to support a proposal to pay £6,000 per annum for Cocoanuts. Mr. REID. There is no competition in the banana line. Mr. PAGE. There happens to be a little competition, and I shall content myself by moving— That the item " Improved New Hebrides, Solomon, and Norfolk Islands services, new services to Solomon, Gilbert, and Ellice, and New Guinea, £6,000," be left out. Mr. WATSON (Bland).—I trust that the honorable member will not persist in his objection. Mr. PAGE. I must be supplied with more information, otherwise I shall. Mr. WATSON.-There is a good deal more than cocoanuts or copra involved in this vote. To my mind it is essential that we should keep up communication with these islands. They are important to us from a strategical stand-point, and from a trade stand-point also there is much to be said in favour of the proposed vote. Take the case of our own Dependency of New Guinea. For years past we have emphasized the importance of that Territory, and Queensiand in particular has been most insistent in her action. This service will be of advantage to our relations with New Guinea quite as much as it will be to our relations with the islands of the Pacific. I trust, therefore, that the proposed vote will be agreed to. Mr. MAHON (Coolgardie).--I would ask the Prime Minister to postpone the consideration of this item. Mr. REID. There cannot always be postponements. I will reduce the item by £3,000 if the honorable member is agreeable, because we have only to cover a period of six months. Mr. MAHON.--I would prefer not to enter into a bargain of that character. The proposed vote stands upon an entirely dif ferent footing from that of the control of New Guinea. The New Hebrides do not belong to Australia. Mr. MCCAY.-We wish to prevent them from belonging to some other nation. Mr. MAHON. - I do not propose to now discuss that aspect of the matter. A verv important investigation will shortly be conducted in reference to the tenure of land in these islands. That investigation will determine the nationality which is to populate them. I think that we might with advantage defer any additional expenditure until that inquiry is either under way or has been completed. Mr. DUGALD THOMSON.-And allow the settlement of another nationality to proceed in the meantime without any competition? Mr. MAHON.-Does the Minister of Home Affairs mean to say that this vote will alter the character of the settlement in these islands? It will do nothing of the kind. It may induce a few additional Australians to go there. Mr. PAGE. And we want them here. Mr. MAHON. Exactly. There is plenty of room for them here. I think that the Prime Minister would be well advised if he consented to a postponement of this item until a little more information is forthcoming. For example, we have not yet been told what sort of mail service this company will provide. Mr. REID. I have just given the Committee details of all the different trips which its steamers will make. Mr. MAHON.-I am not sure that they will give a full mail service every trip. Mr. REID. I can assure the honorable member that they will. Mr. MAHON. I wish also to know whether this proposed vote includes the whole of our payments on account of mail services to those islands? Before asking Before asking the House to sanction the payment of a large subsidy to this shipping, company, would urge the Prime Minister to await the result of the inquiry to which I have already alluded. What guarantee have we that this company will run the trips proposed, or that its vessels will not, at a later stage, make deviations to suit themselves? We ought to have the agreement before us before we are called upon to vote this money. Is Parliament to authorize the payment of this large sum in complete ignorance of what we are to secure in return? I repeat, that we do not know whether these vessels will not. at particular seasons, make deviations to suit themselves. Mr. RFID. We are getting rid of these deviations to some extent. Mr. MAHON.-But it is desirable to know how far that is being done in the interests of the shipping company, rather than in the interests of the Commonwealth. Mr. REID. Their interest is to promote trade, which is also our interest. Mr. MAHON.-Their interest is to promote their own welfare; I do not think they are out for the good of their health.” With great respect I suggest that this item at this hour of the night should be postponed. Mr. DEAKIN (Ballarat).—The proposal now before the Committee has been considered by three Governments; it was discussed, while on a smaller scale, when Sir Edmund Barton was at the head of the Government. Mr. PAGE. The honorable and learned member told us at that time that the vote then proposed would be sufficient, and now another £6,000 is wanted. Mr. DEAKIN.-The vote then was sufficient for the purpose to be fulfilled, but we found that the purpose was not sufficient. This proposal, although it will have an important bearing on the settlement of the New Hebrides, has a much larger scope. It provides for the Marshall, Gilbert, and Ellice groups, where British and Australian traders are exposed to the serious competition of a German line of steamers. It will restore communication with Australia, and tend to bring to us the trade with the islands which we are losing, since it is now passing through German lines northward, by their route of communication to Europe. For that reason, after going into the whole question very carefully with the representatives of the persons in terested in the islands, and also with the Postal Department, with regard to the mail communication Mr. MAHON." Persons interested in the islands"-yes. Mr. DEAKIN. The settlers and the merchants, and others in Sydney, who derive the benefit of the trade. Mr. MAHON.-Settlers of our own nationality? Mr. DEAKIN.-Quite so. I do not pretend that this service is undertaken or proposed in the interests of any other country. Mr. MAHON.-But ex parte information should not be accepted as gospel. Mr. DEAKIN.-It was not accepted as gospel. I can assure the honorable membe that the information was sifted. We had the advice of Captain Rason, Mr. Woodford, the Resident on the Solomon Islands, and other British officials, who, quite apart from commercial considerations, could give us an independent judgment, and place their large knowledge at our disposal. I can tell the honorable member that the amount asked for is not, by a very great deal, what the tenderers first proposed-their first proposal was much larger and more expensive. That amount was cut down to what was absolutely necessary, and no more, and to what we were assured, on independent testimony, was a fair price. I believe the contract remains as it was drafted by me. It was next investigated by the honorable and learned member for West Sydney, when Minister of External Affairs, and also by the honorable member for Bland, who was the leader of the Government. Mr. MCCAY.-Perhaps the then Postmaster-General was not consulted. MI. REID. It was because the honorable first to see the necessity for obtaining control of them. Queensland annexed New Guinea when the home authorities had not the foresight to recognise the advantage of its possession. Mr. WATSON. The balance of convenience is shown to be at Sydney, seeing that the shipping make their headquarters there. Mr. FISHER.-That is because Sydney happens to be the great shipping centre. I do not object to Sydney getting the benefit, but it is just as well to point out that the representatives of New South Wales are just as ready to benefit Sydney as they are to deny any benefit to other parts of the Commonwealth. Mr. TUDOR (Yarra).-I trust that, in the absence of sufficient information to member for Coolgardie was in that Go-enable honorable members to come to a vernment that I included this item in the Estimates. Mr. DEAKIN.-The item has since been criticised, and is now introduced by a third Government. I admit that it is late to enter upon a discussion, and I merely offer the independent testimony of cne whose duty it was to study the matter, and who did study it to the best of his ability with all the knowledge at his command, when I assert that this is a reasonable and economical proposal likely to be more valuable to us than I attempt to explain. Even if it fails, it is an experiment worth trying, before the control and trade of these islands is transferred to other hands and other countries. Mr. FISHER (Wide Bay).-There are two schools of thought on this question. There are those who are entirely against Australia having anything to do with any lands except Australia; there are also others who think it to be the duty of Australia to secure all the adjacent islands. So far as I am concerned, I think the true policy is to get as many as possible of those islands under the command of Australia. I strongly express that opinion, because I think it is the only safe course, in view of the fact that the predominant partner must have control sooner or later. We could import a great many side issues into this discussion. might be told to let the fresh air of individualism work out the salvation of those islands, without any pampering by subsidies or other means. I believe, however, that a subsidy would be well spent, and my only regret is that Sydney should be so constantly clung to as the natural port. Brisbane is the natural port for those islands, for very obvious reasons; and as has been pointed out, Queensland was the conclusion, the Prime Minister will posttion contained in the document referred to pone this item. I suggest that the informaby the Prime Minister should be printed and circulated, because I do not intend to vote for the increase of this amount until I am convinced of the absolute necessity for the increase. Mr. JOHNSON.-A return giving the particulars was laid on the table this after noon. Mr. TUDOK.-And we are asked to vote on it to-night. Progress reported. ADJOURNMENT. PREFERENTIAL TRADE. Motion (by Mr. REID) proposed- Mr. DEAKIN (Ballarat).—I had the misfortune to be absent from the House this evening, when, I understand, the Prime Minister made a statement as to the business to be disposed of during the remainder of the session. In that statement, I am informed, the right honorable gentleman made some reWe ference to the probability that the all-important question of preferential trade could not be dealt with until next session. should be extremely loth myself to adopt any such opinion. It may be, of course, that there are such divisions in the House that it would be difficult to arrive at anvthing like a unanimous conclusion without the expenditure of a considerable amount of time; but, in view of the situation, it appears to me that we should fail in our I duty if we did not at least make an effort to launch the question, and deal with it now if it be possible to arrive at anything like an agreement. I should have taken action much earlier but for the fact that the situation has been very unstable, because we have been discussing matters which necessarily have precedence, and also because while another motion on this subject is on the notice-paper I have been unable to frame such a motion as I would desire. I had hoped that to-day that motion would he brought forward-if it is intended to be brought forward-and disposed of, leaving a fair field for action on my part. Mr. WATSON.-It was intended to bring the motion forward, but the honorable member in whose name it stands is fill. It Mr. DEAKIN.-So I understand. was because I had hoped that it would be disposed of that I have taken no action recently. I was loth to draft another proposal dealing with that part of the subject which has not been appropriated, so to speak, by the motion of which notice has been given, because such an action might have had the appearance of rivalry-and that is a policy which I particularly desire to avoid. The motion in question does not appear to me to be at all adequate, to the necessities of the situation, and I hope to have an opportunity during this session to submit what appears to me to be a sufficiently comprehensive and clear proposal in regard to this great national question. Its immense importance to us as a Commonwealth cannot be overestimated, and it is also of great importance to the mother country, and to the rest of the Empire. In spite of the fact that so much of the session has expired, in spite of the heavy burden which Ministers will have to bear in discharging the work they already have in hand, I feel that this question involves issues of such magnitude, that I shall venture to prefer a request to the Prime Minister a request that he will not find it in his heart to refuse-that a proper opportunity be afforded the House to discuss it. Whatever the Prime Minister's personal views on the question may be, I think he will agree that the whole matter ought to be ventilated, and that at least some expression of opinion should be obtained from this Parliament during the present session. Mr. JOHNSON (Lang).-My attention has been called to a report which appears in to-day's issue of the Argus, of a debate which took place yesterday on a motion for the adjournment of the House, and which may give rise to some misapprehension. In the course of his remarks, the honorable and learned member for Indi said The long continued attacks upon himself had now so long passed the bounds of decency that he felt compelled, not only for his own sake, but for the sake of his constituents, and of the race to which he belonged, to resent them. Mr. O'MALLEY (T.).—A great race. Mr. MALONEY (V.).-A jolly good race. Mr. JOHNSON (N.S.W.).-The race for the spoils. It will readily be seen that the remark attributed to me is capable of an offensive construction. I do not sav that I have been intentionally misreported; but I think that the interjection which I made was perhaps misunderstood. I do not remember the exact words that I used; but what I had in my mind was the jocular suggestion that it was a race for the Treasury benches on the part of certain honorable members. I had no intention whatever to say anything offensive in regard to any race of people, and I think it is well that I should take this opportunity to explain the matter. External Affairs).-I think I stated some Mr. REID (East Sydney-Minister of time ago that there would be no objection on the part of the Government to give the honorable and learned member for Ballarat an opportunity to bring the question larat an opportunity to bring the question ing this session, and I certainly have no of preferential trade before the House durobjection to that course being taken. I feel quite certain, however, that it would be impossible for us to adequately discuss and, therefore, I do not see any prospect the question under, at all events, a month, of dealing with it in a satisfactory way during the present session. I wish also to mention that, as honorable members know. the British Parliament has been in recess since August, and will not meet until the middle of February next. Mr. WATSON.-When we get into recess, we do not know when we shall meet again. Mr. REID. It is singularly refreshing to learn from a statement made by my predecessor in office, that there is any idea that this is a matter of great urgency. So far as I am concerned, I have a particular personal wish that the honorable and learned member for Ballarat should have an opportunity to make a statement of his views on this question in the House before the session ends, for my views on the subject will be published in a very prominent way in the mother country within the next |