Lieutenant CARPER. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Lieutenant, can you not see that your utter inability to tell the committee where or how you obtained the substantial sums of money you deposited in 1948 is, to say the least, alarmingly suspicious?

Lieutenant CARPER. I do not recall those deposits.

The CHAIRMAN. Lieutenant, I ignore the injunction of secrecy and frankly tell you that this committee has, in executive sessions, heard sworn evidence of payment after payment of cash made to you by dope peddlers for protection during the period about which we are inquiring. If you can explain these cash deposits, you, in my opinion, owe it to yourself and your family to do so at once.

Lieutenant CARPER. May I say this to the committee: I have never been paid by any dope peddler.

The CHAIRMAN. Lieutenant, I believe that you will have to make a better explanation than you have so far offered in order to convince the committee that you are telling the truth.

Senator HUNT. Lieutenant, in the year 1948 did you own any income property?

Lieutenant CARPER. Sir?

Senator HUNT. Did you own any property that afforded you a steady income on approximately the same dates each month in 1948? Lieutenant CARPER. I could not recall; I could not tell you a thing. I have a one-seventh interest in a dairy farm.

Senator HUNT. Did you get a monthly return from that dairy farm?

Mr. BAUMAN. May I help the witness on that?
Senator HUNT. Yes.

Mr. BAUMAN. You received $200 by check in January, you received $55 by check in March, and you received $400 by check in December. Your total income from that farm that year was $655.

The CHAIRMAN. From what are you reading? The witness' questionnaire?

Mr. BAUMAN. No, sir. We have subpenaed the checks which were paid to this man from this farm.

Senator HUNT. Do you have any recollection of those checks, Lieutenant?

Lieutenant CARPER. I have recollection of getting checks from the farm; yes, sir.

Mr. BAUMAN. May I interrupt one moment to clear up this matter? The $200 check about which I have testified was deposited in addition to the $300 cash payment in March. That would have nothing to do with that cash payment.

Senator HUNT. Mr. Carper, does your wife have any other regular monthly income that she could have turned to you and you in turn deposited in cash?

Lieutenant CARPER. She has only her salary, sir.

Senator HUNT. You have no other business except the dairy business you mentioned?

Lieutenant CARPER. No, sir.

Senator HUNT. Did you have any considerable amount of money loaned to other people who might have made regular monthly repayments to you at that time and, if so, who were they?

Senator HUNT. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. Proceed, Mr. Bauman.

Mr. BAUMAN. During the year 1949, Lieutenant, are you aware of the fact that the records of account of the Arlington Trust Co. for that year showed that you deposited in your account the sum of $1,410 in cash?

Lieutenant CARPER. No, sir, I am not.

Mr. BAUMAN. And lest you think that came from loans, may I inform you that in 1949 you borrowed a total of $525 and you repaid a total of $1,319. Now I want to know where the $1,410 in cash came from that you put into your account in 1949.

Lieutenant CARPER. I do not know, sir.

Mr. BAUMAN. That is only 2 years ago, Lieutenant.
Lieutenant CARPER. I do not have the record, sir.

Mr. BAUMAN. You do not deny that money was deposited in there, do you?

Lieutenant CARPER. I am not denying it; no, sir.

Mr. BAUMAN. You are not denying that the money that I have referred to in 1948 was deposited in there, are you?

Lieutenant CARPER. No, sir; I am not denying it.

Mr. BAUMAN. Well, do I understand that you are telling the committee that in a matter of 2 years you have no recollection of where $1,410 that you deposited in cash to your account in 1949 came from? Lieutenant CARPER. No, sir; I do not.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Bauman, it appears that those deposits were made not at one time, but on eight different occasions. The first in 1949 was for $150 and was made on the 21st of January, exactly a month after the Lieutenant had deposited $200 in cash in the same bank. On February 21, exactly a month later, he deposited another $150; on March 19, he deposited $160; on April 22, $250; May 21, $200; June 20, $300; July 20, another $100; September 18, $200 more. Lieutenant Carper, can you explain the chronological regularity with which these deposits were made? For example, your deposits in January, February, and May were made on the 21st day of the month; in June and July on the 20th of the Month; in March, April, and September on the 19th, the 22d, and the 18th of the month, respectively. Could you have obtained the various sums of money thus deposited on or about the same day of the month from January through the following September without there having been some identity of the person or persons by whom the money was supplied you, or without your knowing some reason why it was supplied at these particular times?

Lieutenant CARPER. I have no record of it, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You do not know how you happened to receive these numerous substantial sums of money on or about the same day of the month, or the name of the person or persons who supplied them?

Lieutenant CARPER. I have no recollection of those deposits.

The CHAIRMAN. Regardless of your recollection, do you think that anyone could, in the absence of a definite understanding between you and him, have given you all these different deposits at about the same time each month until they aggregated thousands of dollars?

The CHAIRMAN. Do you not think that it is very remarkable that you do not remember it?

Lieutenant CARPER. No, sir; I do not.

Senator HUNT. Lieutenant, do you buy and sell many stocks?

Lieutenant CARPER. Sir?

Senator HUNT. Do you buy or sell stocks?
Lieutenant CARPER. No, sir.

Senator HUNT. Do you play the races?

Lieutenant CARPER. No, sir.

Senator HUNT. Do you recall, did you happen to have at this time in 1948 and 1949 an insurance policy mature that would pay you so much per month?

Lieutenant CARPER. No, sir.

Senator HUNT. I assume that you do not gamble?
Lieutenant CARPER. I play golf and play cards.
Senator HUNT. You should not gamble on that.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you mean that you play golf and cards for money?

Lieutenant CARPER. Very small winnings on cards.

The CHAIRMAN. None of these deposits were made with money won by you in gambling, were they?

Lieutenant CARPER. No, sir. I did not understand those deposits. Senator HUNT. My purpose was to assist you, if I could, to clear your memory as to this source of income. I have exhausted every avenue I have been able to think of to ascertain where this income might have come from. I thought perhaps I could help you.

The CHAIRMAN. If there is any explanation of all this, Lieutenant, consistent with your integrity, I am sure that every member of this committee wants to hear it.

Lieutenant CARPER. I do not know.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Bauman, if this witness' memory is no better about the other transactions than about this one, I do not know why we should continue this examination. We might as well put on the testimony that was taken in executive session and let him come back afterward if he wants to, and answer to what they say.

Mr. BAUMAN. There are one or two other areas I would like to explore.

The CHAIRMAN. Proceed.

Mr. BAUMAN. Now, Lieutenant Carper, during the entire period about which we are talking-namely, from 1947 through October 1, 1951-your actual take-home pay together with that of your wife as well as your income from the farm or from any source varied between $6,400 and $7,300, is not that right?

Lieutenant CARPER. I imagine it is; yes, sir.

Mr. BAUMAN. In no one year did you and your wife have a combined take-home pay of more than $7,300; is that right?

Lieutenant CARPER. I do not know, sir.

Mr. BAUMAN. No one would know but you and your wife, and I am asking you, did you ever have a take-home pay of more than $7,300? Lieutenant CARPER. I would have to look it up. I would have to check on it. I would say that was about right.

Mr. BAUMAN. If I tell you that the answer appearing in your ques

Lieutenant CARPER. Yes, sir.

Mr. BAUMAN. What do you estimate is the amount of money you spend out of pocket every week, Lieutenant?

Lieutenant CARPER. I do not spend a whole lot of money.

Mr. BAUMAN. Well, what you estimate it to be?

Lieutenant CARPER. Only for lunches. Maybe $7 or $8.

Mr. BAUMAN. $7 or $8 a week? Would you say that $15 would be a reasonable figure for out-of-pocket expense for you and your wife for a week?

Lieutenant CARPER. Both of us?

Mr. BAUMAN. Yes.

Lieutenant CARPER. Probably $15; yes, sir.

Mr. BAUMAN. What would be your best estimate aside from the amount of money-the amount of money which you spent for entertainment during the last year, 1951, outside of the country club? Lieutenant CARPER. Very little.

Mr. BAUMAN. What is your best figure?
Lieutenant CARPER. For the whole year?
Mr. BAUMAN. Yes.

Lieutenant CARPER. Probably $200.

Mr. BAUMAN. Do you buy any clothes, other than those which are charged to your charge accounts?

Lieutenant CARPER. I have bought clothes years ago at Raleigh Haberdashers.

Mr. BAUMAN. In recent years?

Lieutenant CARPER. In recent years, the last clothes I bought were at Garfinckel's, paid for by check.

Mr. BAUMAN. When was that? That was on your charge account; was it not?

Lieutenant CARPER. It was on Mrs. Carper's charge account.

Mr. BAUMAN. Now in 1947 you and your wife had a total income of about $6,400, take-home pay. Now in 1947, Lieutenant, you managed to repay $2,000 more than you borrowed. In that year also you made payments on your home of $1,365. Also your department store charge accounts and those of your wife totaled $760.

Lieutenant CARPER. Made how much payment on the home?

Mr. BAUMAN. $1,365.

Lieutenant CARPER. I paid $38.75 a month.

Mr. BAUMAN. The other $75 was the $75 a month you paid to your brother on a loan that you made on the house; is that right? Lieutenant CARPER. Yes.

Mr. BAUMAN. You paid department store charge accounts totaling over $760. Your country club bill was over $470.

Lieutenant CARPER. That was not all mine.

Mr. BAUMAN. Whose was it?

Lieutenant CARPER. Different parties that friends would have there, like a party for the office a couple of times, and promotions. My brother had a party there.

Mr. BAUMAN. In 1947?

Lieutenant CARPER. I do not know what year it was.

Mr. BAUMAN. They must have been pretty small parties because in the year 1947 the biggest bill you had in any one month was $35.64. Lieutenant CARPER. It is not in that year then.

Mr. BAUMAN. So that in that year, at least, we are not concerned about any parties, right?

Now, in addition to that you have automobile expenses of about $300; you have medical bills of about $270; and you paid Federal, State, and county taxes of about $275.

Now all those figures I have read total about $5,400. Is it your contention that the remaining nine-hundred-odd dollars that you had left was sufficient to pay for your food, which you yourself estimated in your questionnaire was $1,040?

Lieutenant CARPER. There could be a whole lot of mistakes in those questions, Mr. Bauman.

Mr. BAUMAN. I want to say to you, Lieutenant Carper-and I think the committee should know-that every one of these figures which I have read comes from either your own statements in your questionnaire, which you have said on the stand are true to the best of your knowledge, or from the actual vouchers, invoices, and bills which this committee has subpenaed from department stores, country clubs, and every other source. I want to say to you that not one figure which I have read to you or shall read to you is fabricated. Each one of these comes from an actual bill, or from your own statement in the questionnaire.

Is that clear, Lieutenant?

Lieutenant CARPER. That is clear.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will now take a recess until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning.

(Whereupon, at 12:01 p. m. the committee recessed to reconvene at 10 a. m., Tuesday, March 18, 1952.)