HEARINGS RELATING TO H.R. 15678, H.R. 15689, H.R. 15744, H.R. 15754, AND H.R. 16099, BILLS TO CURB TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS FRIDAY, JULY 22, 1966 UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES, Washington, D.C. PUBLIC HEARINGS A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to recess, at 10:10 a.m. in Room 429, Cannon House Office Building, Washington, D.C., Hon. Edwin E. Willis (chairman) presiding. (Subcommittee members: Representatives Edwin E. Willis, of Louisiana, chairman; Joe R. Pool, of Texas; and Del Clawson, of California.) Subcommittee members present: Representatives Willis and Claw son. Staff members present: Francis J. McNamara, director; William Hitz, general counsel; Alfred M. Nittle, counsel; Donald T. Appell, chief investigator; and Philip R. Manuel, investigator. The CHAIRMAN. The subcommittee will come to order. For the purpose of these hearings, the Chair wishes the record to reflect that I have appointed and do now appoint a new subcommittee to conduct the hearings. The subcommittee is composed of myself, as chairman, and Mr. Joe Pool of Texas and Mr. Del Clawson of California. I also want to state for the record that a quorum of that subcommittee is present; namely, myself and Mr. Clawson. STATEMENT OF HON. DON EDWARDS, U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM CALIFORNIA The CHAIRMAN. Before calling the first witness, I would like to submit to the reporter for inclusion at this point in the record a statement by our colleague, Congressman Don Edwards of California. (Congressman Edwards' statement follows:) STATEMENT BY CONGRESSMAN DON EDWARDS REGARDING H.R. 15678 Mr. Chairman and distinguished Members of the Committee: I should first like to make clear my support for the basic purpose of this bill, to rid this country of the evil of organizations like the Ku Klux Klan. But I believe there are serious constitutional infirmities in your proposed legislation, 1481 and that linking criminal acts with organizational membership is unnecessary and unwise. Title V of the civil rights bill of 1966 effectively reaches the racial crimes about which you are so rightfully concerned and it reaches those crimes whether or not the perpetrator is a member of the Ku Klux Klan. I believe that under H.R. 15678 prosecution will not only be more difficult because of the necessity of proving a clandestine organization or criminal conspiracy, but more important, the bill will not even reach the nonorganization criminal. Furthermore, H.R. 15678 is dependent on the interstate commerce clause. I believe the Supreme Court made it quite clear in United States vs. Guest that Congress, under sec. 5 of the 14th amendment, has the power to punish private conduct interfering with rights guaranteed by the Constitution. Therefore, proof of use facilities of commerce or the mails, is unnecessary and adds another burden to effective prosecution of the crimes we seek to make Federal violations. It is my conclusion that H.R. 15678 is substantially weaker than Title V of the civil rights bill and at the same time gravely jeopardizes legitimate rights guaranteed under the first amendment. The real problem is not solved and serious new problems are created. In attempting to reach the criminal activities of the Klan, you have used definitions that are so broad and vague that you sweep into the category of "clandestine organization" college fraternities, for example. While I am not in favor of hazing, which is surely intimidation if not violence, I am opposed to making it a Federal crime. The CIA appears to fit the definition of a clandestine organization, as well as the Masons, the NAACP in certain States, and many other bona fide groups. The reach is so broad and so inhibitive of the right to free association and privacy that I cannot see how it can be squared to fit the constitutional requirement of a rational basis for discrimination between classes or groups. The bill you are considering also infringes on freedom of speech with no distinction between "inciting language" and advocacy of abstract doctrine. I suppose that the debate now going on among certain civil rights advocates about whether nonviolence as a technique of political change is no longer effective, would be a violation of this bill, if the debate was carried out by a civil rights organization that kept its membership secret. Sec. 407 includes "any person who *** advocates the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety, by the use of violence, force, intimidation, or any unlawful means, of (1) furthering or accomplishing any purpose, objective, or plan of any clandestine organization doing business or operating in interstate or foreign commerce * * *." It seems to me that this section proscribes advocacy in the abstract, and may even reach advocacy of such actions as economic boycott. My own view is that the most obnoxious doctrines must be allowed expression and that proscription of the speech we deplore endangers the liberties of all of us. In Sec. 408 I fail to see any rational connection between membership in a clandestine organization and use of the telephone. If a person is to be prosecuted for using the telephone in connection with a crime, what does his membership have to do with it? Especially since the criminal act involved may or may not have anything to do with the organization. Here again I believe there is arbitrary discrimination violative of due process. Sec. 409 outlaws oaths or pledges to conceal knowledge of offenses. It apparently outlasts membership itself and no proof of any overt act of actual concealment of an offense is necessary. Under this section, as I read it, if you pledge to conceal offenses by members of the organization, you are in violation, but if you pledge generally to conceal crimes you are not. In any case, it seems to me that we have had enough of such roundabout legislation, such as requiring registration of subversives, that simply doesn't work, and we ought to concentrate not on membership in organizations, and the doctrines advocated, but on the criminal acts of people. Sec. 410 makes it a crime for an officer or member to embezzle the funds of a clandestine organization. Embezzlement is already a crime in every State, and why the Federal Government should, in effect, give additional protection to members of the Ku Klux Klan against their own internal embezzlers is more than I can figure out. For myself, I would not be upset if all of their assets are embezzled tomorrow and the embezzlers flee the country. Sec. 412 authorizes injunctions against anticipated future crimes which the Attorney General believes may be committed by a criminal conspiracy, which is defined so broadly that again I believe that it is void for vagueness. It is essentially a dragnet injunction reminiscent of the days of the Palmer Raids and the suppression of labor unions. The injunctive power is an awesome weapon and I do not believe it should be used without the most careful delineation of its scope. My analysis of particular difficulties with the bill is not meant to be comprehensive, and I am not suggesting that the bill should be amended. I believe that the underlying basis of the bill is wrong and cannot be corrected by amendment. I would hope that every member of this committee would direct his support to the civil rights bill which will be before the House next week. Title V of that bill will be far more responsive in stopping racial crimes in our country and does not have the serious disabilities of H.R. 15678 in limiting first amendment freedoms. RESOLUTION ADOPTED BY THE AMERICAN LEGION, DEPARTMENT OF OHIO The CHAIRMAN. I would also like to read for the record a telegram just received from Charles William Heacock, immediate past commander of the Ohio Department of The American Legion. It is addressed to me as chairman of this committee and reads: The American Legion of Ohio in department convention unanimously adopted on 16 July 1966 Ohio Resolution R77 urging appropriate legislation to control the activties of the Ku Klux Klan and related organizations in accordance with determination of the Committee on Un-American Activities. I respectfully request that a copy of Ohio Resolution 77 be made a part of the record of the committee's legislative hearings in that regard. The resolution referred to is now offered for the record at this point. (The resolution follows:) Whereas: The Committee on Un-American Activities has conducted extensive investigations and hearings concerning the Ku Klux Klan and related organizations, and, Whereas: It is the determination of the Committee on Un-American Activities that there exists within the United States certain Ku Klux Klan organizations which in varying degree and manner engage in activities which adversely affect the General Welfare of the United States and tend to subvert constitutional processes, and, Whereas: These organizations, though often unrelated to one another, and having different objectives or purposes, share, nonetheless, the common traits of secrecy for the purpose of intimidating, threatening, or otherwise coercing citizens of the United States to compel such citizens to do or not to do those acts which will conform with the purposes and objectives of such organizations, and, Whereas: The Committee on Un-American Activities will, in the near future, hold public legislative hearings in regard to such organizations to obtain the recommendations of interested individuals and organizational representatives, NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT Resolved: That The American Legion, Department of Ohio, in duly convened convention at Columbia, Ohio, this 16th day of July, 1966, urges the Congress of the United States to enact into law such appropriate legislation as may be deemed necessary to control the practices of the Ku Klux Klan and related organizations. The CHAIRMAN. Our first witness this morning is Mr. Harry Zerbe of Lawrenceburg, Indiana, prosecutor for the Seventh Judicial Circuit of Indiana. Mr. Zerbe, we are pleased to have you with us, sir. Mr. ZERBE. Thank you, sir. STATEMENT OF HARRY ZERBE, PROSECUTOR FOR THE SEVENTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT OF INDIANA Mr. ZERBE. I am Harry Zerbe, prosecutor for the Seventh Judicial Circuit of Indiana. My testimony will be brief. I will read you the statute under which we were able to act against the Ku Klux Klan in Indiana last November. I will give you a brief history of what happened there. I will then indicate some additions that I would like to suggest to H.R. 15678. Then if there are any questions I would be glad to try to answer them, if I can. First of all, I will give you the history. Last November I was informed by a newspaperman in Indianapolis by phone call that the Klan had issued a news release to his paper, to the Associated Press, to the Louisville newspapers, I believe, and to the Cincinnati newspapers-we are very close to Cincinnati, about 25 miles. The CHAIRMAN. Do you remember what the tenor of the news relase was? Mr. ZERBE. Yes, sir; I can read it to you. I have it in my application for restraining order. The CHAIRMAN. All right. Mr. ZERBE. The top of it read, "Rally Time, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. Time, November 6, 1965, Saturday, 10 a.m. to 10 p.m.; November 7, 1965, Sunday, 10 a.m. to 3 p.m.": Take Highway 50 to Highway 262. Go south on 262 to rally grounds. 40 miles west of Cincinnati, Ohio; 70 miles south of Indianapolis, Indiana; 40 miles south of Richmond, Indiana; 50 miles north of Louisville, Kentucky. Every white Christian American is urged to attend last of your rally. It is important to have a large crowd for we will have speakers from Ohio and Georgia. The cross burning will follow speaking Saturday night. Let's have a group of men to help build the cross Saturday afternoon. There will be souvenirs, coffee and pop for sale. No alcoholic beverage, Communists, Niggers or Beatniks are allowed on the rally grounds. That was the end of the press release. The CHAIRMAN. Who signed it or who put it out? Mr. ZERBE. Parkie Scott, rally organizer. The CHAIRMAN. Where is he from? Mr. ZERBE. Oregonia, Ohio. He is a farmer up there, I believe. The CHAIRMAN. Do you know, did he identify himself as a Klansman? Mr. ZERBE. No. The CHAIRMAN. He is the one who issued the press release? The CHAIRMAN. Did he name the unit that he was purporting to speak for? I will tell you why, sir. With all the protestations of pro-Americanism and anticommunism of these Klansmen, they operate under fronts-just like the Communists do-that are just as phony as a 2-foot yardstick and just as false as a $3 bill. Now he didn't have the guts to say what Klan or Klavern he belonged to, if he did, in that ad? Mr. ZERBE. In that ad he did not, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And he would not, I suppose, say it today, and that is the way they operate. They are a hit-and-run bunch of people, just hit and run. |