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I do know that in dealing with the people all the while, and in NACA on a permanent individual basis, I don't experience any diffi- ; culties on these matters.

Senator Johnson. What standards should govern the determination of who controls the space program in your opinion?

Dr. YORK. Well, I don't think that any single agency should control the space program. Space is big enough for both civil programs and military programs, and there is no more reason to say it is all civilian or all military than it is to say that all seagoing vessels are military or

Senator Johnson. Do you mean to say you should have some standard, and if so, what should those standards be?

Dr. YORK. The way I would put it—I don't know how you put it in legal language. Senator JOHNSON. I am not a lawyer either. Dr. YORK. The way I would put it when I discuss it with other eople and the way it seems to work is to say if it is primarily for the purpose of fulfilling a military requirement, that is a military program; and if it is primarily for the purpose of fulfilling requirements in basic science or primarily for the purpose of exploring the moon or the planets, that is a civil program.

Now I don't have any trouble with those words when I discuss it with people from NACĂ. I don't know how you would write it so that somebody else won't have trouble.

Senator JOHNSON. Well, I think if you have the same NACA you have had all the time we may get along all right but we can't legislate this situation in perpetuity. We have got to write this thing for whoever may come. We have got to assume they may not all have the same relationship as you have.

One other question.

CIVILIAN CONTROL COULD IMPEDE MILITARY DEVELOPMENT

Does the control of the program by civilian agencies necessarily impede special military development and use of particular devices?

Ďr. YORK. I am sorry. I didn't follow you.

Senator Johnson. Does control of the program by a civilian agency necessarily impede military special development?

Dr. York. İf a civilian agency controlled the program and there were only one, then I think it would impede military development but that is not the way I understand it is going. If the space program became a single

program under a single authority, then I think it might very well impede the military,

Senator Johnson. Ďr. York, I think your testimony has been quite helpful to the committee.

As counsel suggested, I hope you will spend some time with Mr. Johnson and the technicians in the drafting field in order that we can have submitted to us for our consideration the most constructive suggestions which you may be able to produce.

We very much want to have your suggestions before we finalize the bill that this committee acts upon.

The committee thanks you for your testimony and your cooperatior. We anticipate the pleasure of receiving the detailed suggestions and recommendations of Mr. Johnson and anybody that he may lean upon in this endeavor.

We will adjourn until 10:30 tomorrow morning when we will hear from the Under Secretary of the Air Force, Mr. Malcolm MacIntyre.

Tomorrow afternoon we will receive testimony from the Under Secretary; the Secretary of the Army, Mr. Brucker; and the Assistant Secretary of the Navy and Air, Mr. Norton.

We thank you for your understanding and the committee stands adjourned.

(Whereupon, at 4:35 p. m., the committee adjourned to reconvene at 10:30 p. m., May 8, 1958.)

NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ACT OF 1958

THURSDAY, MAY 8, 1958

UNITED STATES SENATE,
SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON SPACE AND ASTRONAUTICS,

Washington, D.C. The special committee reconvened, pursuant to recess, at 10:35 a. m., in room 457 Senate Office Building, Senator Lyndon B. Johnson (chairman) presiding.

Present: Senators Lyndon B. Johnson, Green, Anderson, Symington, and Hickenlooper.

Also present: Edwin L. Weisl, consulting counsel; Eilene Galloway, special consultant; Dr. Glen P. Wilson, technical coordinator; Gerald W. Siegel, Stuart French, and Solis Horwitz, professional staff members.

Senator JOHNSON. The committee will come to order.

Our first witness this morning is Mr. Malcolm A. MacIntyre, Under Secretary of the Air Force.

Mr. MacIntyre, as you know, this is the regular meeting day of the Senate Armed Services Committee. Therefore some of our members are necessarily at that meeting-Senator Russell, Senator Symington, Senator Bridges, and others. They will be very interested in your testimony. We are having prompt reports made. Members will be furnished with those reports, and I know that Senator Russell and Senator Bridges particularly expect to read them over the weekend. So I would like you to know that the fact that they are not here is because they cannot be in two places at once.

I am placing into the record a biography and background along with Mr. MacIntyre's testimony. I ask unanimous consent for it to be inserted at this point. Without objection it is so ordered. (Biography and background referred to are as follows:)

MALCOLM A. MACINTYRE, UNDER SECRETARY OF THE AIR FORCE Mr. MacIntyre was born in Boston, Mass., on January 28, 1908. He was graduated from Yale University in 1928 with a B. A. degree; from Oxford Uni. versity with a B. A. and B. C. L.-Rhodes Scholar; from Yale Law School, J. 8. D. in 1933, and was made a Sterling Fellow.

Admitted to the New York Bar in 1934 and the District of Columbia and Virginia Bars in 1946, Mr. MacIntyre was associated with Sullivan & Cromwell, New York, from 1933 to 1940, and with Pruitt, Hale & Coursen, New York, from 1940 to 1942.

Commissioned a first lieutenant in the Air Force in May 1942, he left the service with rank of colonel in January 1946, having served with the Air Transport Command in Washington, D. C. and various overseas theaters. He was awarded the Legion of Merit and Certificate of Commendation.

After war service, in 1946 Secretary MacIntyre became a partner in the law firm of Douglas, Proctor, MacIntyre & Gates, Washington, D. C., remaining there until 1948 when he joined the firm of Debevoise, Plimpton & McLean. He was appointed Under Secretary of the Air Force in 1957.

Mr. MacIntyre is a member of the American Bar, New York State Bar, and Virginia Bar Associations, and Association of the Bar of the City of New York. He has also been active in civil affairs as president of the Town Club of Scarsdale, N. Y., and a director of its community fund.

Senator JOHNSON. The committee is ready now, Mr. Secretary, for any statement you may wish to make in your own way. I understand you have a prepared statement?

Mr. MACİNTYRE. I have, Mr. Chairman.

Senator JOHNSON. In regard to some of the scheduled witness, we are very hopeful that they can submit to us as far in advance as possible a prepared statement, in accordance with Senator Anderson's request yesterday. We will ask the staff to review those statements. If there is anything that they need to bring to the attention of the committee, they will prepare a brief digest for the committee members. We have a very limited staff, and we cannot be too rigid in that requirement, but we will follow it as far as we can.

If you will proceed in your own way, Mr. MacIntyre, we will be happy to hear from you. STATEMENT OF MALCOLM A. MacINTYRE, UNDER SECRETARY

OF THE AIR FORCE, ACCOMPANIED BY JOHN A. JOHNSON, GENERAL COUNSEL, DEPARTMENT OF THE AIR FORCE

Mr. MACINTYRE. Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the fact that the members of your committee are busy. I think quite a few of us are busy these days. I do have a prepared statement which I would like to read.

It is a pleasure to appear before you today on behalf of the Air Force. As I understand the situation, the immediate purpose of this committee is to consider legislation now before both the Senate and the House which proposes to create a National Aeronautics and Space Agency. Therefore, I will confine my remarks in a rather general vein to that subject.

On that basis, I should like to discuss briefly two areas of immediate concern. They are (1) some aspects of the military implications of space technology, and (2) comments on the proposed legislation to create the National Space Agency in question.

My first area, military implications of space technology, is a broad one and deliberately so-because since October, when the Soviets launched the first sputnik, the subject of space as a potential avenue of attack against us has ushered in a whole new spectrum of problems and possibilities.

DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS OF BILL

Senator JOHNSON. Pardon me for interrupting, but could I ask you this question?

Mr. MACINTYRE. Yes, sir.
Senator JOHNSON. First, have you read the bill under consideration?
Mr. MACINTYRE. Yes, sir,
Senator JOHNSON. Have you carefully analyzed it?
Mr. MACINTYRE. I have tried to analyze it in such time as I had.
Senator JOHNSON. Have you given it deliberate consideration?
Mr. MACINTYRE. Yes, sir.

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