readings. Does he mean a first reading, with a second reading imme-diately following?

Mr. HALL (Great Britain). Mr. President, what I mean is, that if there is a first reading, it is always proper upon the second reading to point out any objection, if any one has overlooked something. It is not irrevocable upon the first reading; for if it is cumbersome it can be amended. I propose that the proposition be printed so that we can each have a copy of it before us, and then we can determine to vote upon it to-morrow, or at any time it is desirable. All that I desire to point out is that it would be undesirable to vote upon such a proposition until we have it already before us and are able to consider it amongst ourselves. Mr. GOODRICH (United States). Mr. President, I am very glad that this method of discussion has arisen. These are questions as to what is the better course for us to pursue, after due deliberation and care. I really do not see any necessity for first and second readings in pursuance of the Parliamentary practice. Even in the United States we have a first and second, and even a third reading. But in practice the first is simply the reading of the bill by its title, and the second is the same, while the third involves the discussion of the bill. All of that is perhaps a necessity in great legislative bodies, but I doubt whether it is necessary here. I do not even suppose that the passage of a resolution adopting the first article, for instance, would be finally binding upon all the members, because all of that could be reviewed when we came to read over the entire articles for adoption as a whole. So it seems to me that unless the learned delegate from Great Britain has some desire to have a first and second reading that there will be no necessity for it. But it may be well to have a sort of an understanding-an unwritten law here that we do not pass upon any article upon the day of its reading, or until the amendment has been printed and submitted, even for fortyeight hours, but certainly for one day. Without any formal resolution I presume that we might consider that as one of the unwritten laws of the Conference.

The PRESIDENT. What action do you propose to take upon the resolution at the present time?

Mr. GOODRICH (United States). Mr. President, I suggest that this amendment be printed and furnished to the delegates to-morrow morning. The PRESIDENT. It will have to be laid on the table to-morrow morning.

Mr. HALL (Great Britain). Mr. President, then we could deal with it on the following day. That would be forty-eight hours from the proposal. We should receive it in print on the following morning so that it would give us a fair day after we received it in print to consider it. The PRESIDENT. If there be no objection that course will be pursued. The resolution will be laid on the table and given to the delegates to-morrow to be considered on the following day.

The PRESIDENT. Shall the second article be now read? The Secretary will please read the second article.

The Secretary read the second article, as follows:

LIGHTS.

"ARTICLE 2. The lights mentioned in the following articles numbered three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, and no others, shall be carried in all weathers, from sunset to sunrise."

Mr. PRESIDENT. Article 2 is before the Conference.

Captain SALVESEN (Norway). Mr. President, the meaning of the word "carry” in this article is not clear. It refers not only to fixed lights, but to lights (such as those mentioned in Article 11) which have only to be shown and are not allowed to be carried.

Mr. GOODRICH (United States). Mr. President, will the gentleman from Norway allow me to say that perhaps his suggestion is met in Article 3, where it expressly says that "a sea-going steam-ship, when under way, shall carry on or in front of the foremast, at a height above the hull of not less than twenty feet, and if the breadth of the ship exceeds twenty feet, then at a height above the hull not less than such breadth, a bright white light," and so on? And so in regard to colored lights on the starboard side: "a green light, so constructed as to show a uniform and unbroken light over an arc of the horizon," etc. If your attention is called to that it may meet your suggestion. Captain RICHARD (France) thereupon addressed the Conference in French, which was not reported.

The PRESIDENT. The delegate from France proposes to discuss Article 2 at some future time. This is a very important subject, and I think it would be well to pass it over now and take up each article separately. Do I understand correctly that the general discussion of that article is to be passed over for the present?

Mr. HALL (Great Britain). Mr. President, I quite agree with the gallant delegate from France that it is undesirable to pass this rule, stating the numbers of the rules to which it is to apply, because we may deal with the rules which come after this, and it might render it unnecessary to pass all that portion of Article 2. I apprehend that it will be necessary for us, before we consider especially the articles to which it refers, to consider generally what the lights are which are to be carried by vessels at sea, and then to discuss afterwards the rules seriatim. I apprehend that it will be a waste of time to discuss the rules which follow this seriatim until the Conference has determined generally upon what the lights are which are to be carried by vessels at sea. I think that that is what my friend, the gallant delegate from France, meant in the observations which he addressed to the Conference. It was not that we should not discuss what the lights to be carried ordinarily by vessels at sea should be, but that it was useless to say that Articles 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, etc., should be controlled by this article until we considered those articles in their order to see whether or not a

general rule should apply to vessels and whether there should be excep tions.

The PRESIDENT. I so understood the delegate.

Mr. HALL (Great Britain). Mr. President, then I think it will be the better course to pursue to leave the numbers in blank, and decide, first of all, generally upon what lights are to be carried by vessels at sea, and then we can insert the numbers of the rules afterwards.

Mr. VERNEY (Siam). Mr. President, I don't know that I shall be in order in proposing that we go on with the discussion of Article 3, in accordance with what my friend, Mr. Hall, and what the gallant delegate from France have just proposed.

Mr. HALL (Great Britain). Mr. President. before we proceed to do that I would say, with regard to the observation which has been made in regard to the word "carry," if a word is to be suggested instead of the word "carry" we should have notice of it, so that we can consider whether or not it is a desirable substitution for the word "carry." I think we had better have notice what is proposed in that respect before we go to the discussion of Article 3.

Captain SALVESEN (Norway). Mr. President, I think the word "carry," translated into many languages, has different meanings. If it means that these lights have to be exhibited from sunset to sunrise and used, I think a word like "used" would be proper.

The PRESIDENT. Does the delegate from Norway propose another word?

Captain SALVESEN (Norway). No, sir.

The PRESIDENT. Are you ready to suggest a substitute for the word "carry?" That word has been objected to, but there is no proposition for a substitute. Will the delegate from Siam please state his motion?

Mr. VERNEY (Siam). Mr. President, my motion was that we go on and discuss Article 3. I was under the impression that that was proposed by the gallant delegate from France and the learned delegate from Geat Britain.

The PRESIDENT. I do not understand that there is a motion before the Conference as to what disposition shall be made of Article 2.

Mr. VERNEY (Siam). Mr. President, I am asked to withdraw my motion for a moment.

The PRESIDENT. The motion was made by the delegate from France to pass over for a moment Article 2. Those who are in favor of that motion will say "aye."

The motion was carried.

Mr. GOODRICH (United States). Mr. President, I think it would be wise to ask Captain Salvesen to formulate his proposition, so that we can have it in print to-morrow.

Captain SALVESEN (Norway). Mr. President, I proposed the words "carried or used."

Mr. GOODRICH (United States). Mr. President, another delegate suggests the words "displayed or carried."

ཝཾ

The PRESIDENT. The amendment of Captain Salvesen will now be read.

The Secretary read the amendment as follows:

"The lights mentioned in the following articles numbered

and no others, 'shall be carried or used' in all weathers, from sunset to sunrise, in the manner therein prescribed."

The PRESIDENT. Do I understand this to be a substitute for Article 27

Mr. SALVESEN (Norway). It is properly a substitute.

Mr. VERNEY (Siam). I venture to suggest, Mr. President, that before going into the discussion of these very intricate matters it would be advisable for the delegates to decide whether these matters are not better dealt with by committees which shall report to the Conference. I understand that that has been in the minds of some other members of the Conference, and I venture to make the formal motion in this matter to bring it before you for discussion at this early stage of the Conference, as to whether we should not transact the business in a more expeditious manner, and whether the business will not be more satisfactorily done when we come to discuss these matters in detail by means of committees. I would ask those gentlemen who are more competent than myself, and more instructed in these matters in this country, whether that is not the best manner of procedure.

Mr. GOODRICH (United States). Mr. President, that matter has been suggested and discussed among several members of the Conference, and I think the ultimate conclusion reached by this informal discussion was that we should get better information, even if it did take a little more time, by discussing in a body the various propositions. There may come a time when for the formulation of a rule or an article, after the subject has been fully discussed, a committee might be appointed to embody the sentiment of the Conference into apt English words. That possibly might be done better by a small committee; but I really think that the discussions, at least for some time to come, had better be in the whole committee or in the whole Conference. While I dislike to take so much time as we are likely to take here, yet, as I said before, we are embarked in a great work, and we may well spend a great deal of time even over the dotting of an "i" or the crossing of a “t.”

Señor ROMERO (Mexico). Mr. President, it is with very great diffi dence that I venture to speak on this occasion. I find that there is a provision in the parliamentary rules providing for the appointment of committees. I am not sufficiently familiar with these many questions to decide upon it; but it seems to me this matter, as well as any other, will be much better considered in committees and adjusted there, and when brought to the knowledge of the Conference a great deal of time will be saved. It has been the universal rule with parliamentary bodies to organize themselves into committees, and experience has shown that that is the best way to save time, and it is so regarding this Conference.

It seems to me that it is a very important point that these parliament ary rules provide that committees shall be appointed, and that it would be the proper thing to do-to appoint committees to consider these things. Of course they would consist of competent men who could digest these questions, and I have no doubt that time will be saved in that way.

Mr. HALL (Great Britain). Mr. President, I quite agree with the learned delegate from Siam and the distinguished delegate from Mexico that it may be desirable that, at some stages or stage in our proceedings, a committee or committees should be appointed. I think it highly possible that we may arrive at technical matters in which a committee, composed of experienced men in that particular branch, may assist the Conference very much with the result of their deliberations in committees; but I can not help thinking that, upon a question such as this, which I take to be a very important question of principle and not a technicality, we should have all the assistance we can get from all the members of the Conference. We should have all the assistance we can get upon the general question as to what the lights are which are to be carried by vessels at sea. I do not think that requires any particular knowledge or knowledge of technicality. I think that the broad principle as to what lights vessels of all nations shall carry at sea is one that this Conference ought to decide, and, if it is a proper thing to be decided, it ought to have the assistance of all the delegates who have come to assist in its deliberation.

Señor ROMERO (Mexico). Mr. President, I desire, in answer to some of the remarks made by the learned representative from Great Britain, to say a few words. I have, of course, very great regard for his experience. I can not say I have much experience myself. My experience is very limited as compared with his. It is with diffidence that I venture to make some suggestions in this case; but it seems to me that a great deal of time would be saved by the appointment of committees, and that they would not interfere with the discussion and the knowledge of all members of the assembly in regard to these matters or prevent them from going before the committees. In other words, the committee present their views to the Conference. Sometimes the members of the committee do not agree, and you have the two sides of the question. It is much easier, especially for such delegates as myself who are very little familiar with the questions discussed here to make up their minds in that way. Therefore, the appointment of committees would save a great deal of time.

Besides, as I said before, I find here in the rules which have been adopted a provision for committees, and as we have accepted these rules I think that we will have to comply with them.

Captain SAMPSON (United States). Mr. President, if the delegates had decided to consider all the questions contained in the programme which has been submitted to the Conference, I think then it would have been