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Mr. KENNEDY. While you were with the union, you received $75 a week?

Mr. GILBERT. That is right.
Mr. KENNEDY. Salary. And $25 expenses; is that right?
Mr. GILBERT. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. And you remained with the union until June of 1955?

Mr. GILBERT. That is right.
Mr. KENNEDY. When the local was merged with 433?
Mr. GILBERT. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. At that time you told Mr. Caggiano there wasn't enough money to pay your salary, and so you were out?

Mr. GILBERT. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. If any company became a member of the game association, it was necessary for the employees of that company to belong to local 465 ?

Mr. GILBERT. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. And AXMONY, the game association, provided the union with a list of the locations of the association members, is that right, lists of the locations?

Mr. GILBERT. Only when they had trouble.

Mr. KENNEDY. When they had trouble, what was the procedure that you would follow then?

Mr. GILBERT. They would send us a note that one of their locations was being breached, and that we should send a picket there.

Mr. KENNEDY. And would you then send the picket around?
Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir.
Mr. KENNEDY. Where would you get the picket?

Mr. GILBERT. We had one steady picket and from time to time we would hire somebody off the street.

Mr. KENNEDY. What kind of a picket was this man that you had steady!

Mr. GILBERT. A lovely man. Mr. KENNEDY. How did you happen to select him? Mr. GILBERT. He needed the job and we needed him. The CHAIRMAN. How much did you pay him? ? Mr. GILBERT. The minimum rate of $1 an hour. The CHAIRMAN. You didn't go over the minimum? Mr. GILBERT. Never. We needed the money ourselves. Mr. KENNEDY. They would call up from the association and tell you where the picket line should be?

Mr. GILBERT. They would furnish a list, and we would decide where to send the picket.

Mr. KENNEDY. Were they very formal when they would call ?
Mr. GILBERT. They had to be.
Mr. KENNEDY. They had to be?
Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir.
Mr. KENNEDY. Why was that?
Mr. GILBERT. Well, they were asking for something.
Mr. KENNEDY. What sort of thing would they say?

Mr. GILBERT. Well, they would tell us that one of their members' mechanics had just lost a part of his income because the location was beached and, worrying about our mechanics, we would send the picket over to the location.

Senator CHURCH. Did the mechanic ever call himself?
Mr. GILBERT. Oh, we insisted on that.

Senator Church. But the original contact was made by the operator.

Mr. GILBERT. Yes; that was to expedite and save time, you know.

Mr. KENNEDY. Then would you make up a little slip showing what needed to be done?

Mr. GILBERT. Exactly.

The CHAIRMAN. I hand you here three handwritten slips, one marked No. 1, and the other marked No. 2, in red, and in order for identification, and I will mark the third one No. 3 in red.

They say the red has some significance.
Mr. GILBERT. Just

make it easy for yourself, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. No. 3 in blue then, and I will hand them to you and I will ask you to examine them and state if you identify them.

(Documents handed to the witness.)
T'he CHAIRMAN. You have examined them!
Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. What are they?

Mr. GILBERT. These are complaint slips, and the numbers on them indicate the number of their importance.

The CHAIRMAN. Who made out those memorandums?
Mr. GILBERT. I did.
The CHAIRMAN. They are in your handwriting?
Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. They were made out by you in the course of your duties as an officer of that union?

Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. They may be made exhibits Nos. 16A, 16B, and 16C.

(Documents referred to marked "Exhibits 16A, 16B, and 16C” for reference and may be found in the files of the select committee.)

Mr. KENNEDY. Let us just go through one of those slips. I would like to ask you about the procedure followed. On some of those slips you have a figure of "1" in red.

Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir.
Mr. KENNEDY. What would that indicate!
Mr. GILBERT. To give it immediate attention, if possible.
Mr. KENNEDY. Some people that got priority; is that right?

Mr. GILBERT. Well, it was a question of giving service to a fellow that had a slip there the longest, because we didn't give service the very same day.

Mr. KENNEDY. So if the "l” was in red, he got some priority; is that correct?

Mr. GILBERT. That is right. All slips in No. 1 were given priority over all that were marked No. 2.

Mr. KENNEDY. You have a slip there that shows "Operator" and it has “Old Reliable Location”; is that right?

Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir.
Mr. KENNEDY. Then you give the address?
Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. Then it says the location is breached by "Tony or Gus”.

Mr. GILBERT. That is right.

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Mr. KENNEDY. And it has the date of August 5.
Mr. GILBERT. That is right.
Mr. KENNEDY. It says-
Letter sent September 9, 1953, pickets sent September 14, 1953,
and then
Owner called and is going to move Tony and Gus from his premises.

That was successful, then?
Mr. GILBERT. Sure.
Mr. KENNEDY (reading):

September 16, Joe Madden is going to location to see if he can get back service.
Then-
Spoke to Bill Bartender, who told boss to remove present machine and put back
Joe Madden.

So that was successful?
Mr. GILBERT. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. Let's take another one. This is another slip that concerns the Progressive Amusement Machine Co., Inc., operated by A. Middleburg. This slip contains figure No. 2 in red.

Mr. GILBERT. Yes.
Mr. KENNEDY. That indicates a lesser priority.
Mr. GILBERT. That is right.

May I explain something? No. 1 might take about a week or so to get to the text No. 1, but when we had very little work you could follow No. 2 and if that was successful, another No. 2 may go in 1 day. So there is actually no way of gaging the time between these.

Senator CHURCH. Let me ask this: What was the basis of your assessment of priority? Why were some given priority treatment and others given secondary treatment?

Mr. GILBERT. Because of the length of time that we had the complaint on file.

Mr. KENNEDY. This slip concerning Progressive Amusement Co. would seem to indicate that after the union picketed and the original operator became satisfied, then the operator would remove his complaint in the case and the union would be relieved of the obligation of picket; is that right?

Mr. GILBERT. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. Once you put the picket in, and the association member then became satisfied, he made some arrangement with the man who jumped his location; once that had been done, the picket was removed; is that right?

Mr. Gilbert. Well, if it proved that there was a union serviceman on the machine that was in there.

Mr. KENNEDY. It was just ordinarily a question of the association member being satisfied; was it not! You didn't send somebody out yourself. If the association member was satisfied, that was satisfactory?

Mr. GILBERT. That was satisfactory.

Mr. KENNEDY. You didn't follow up to find out who was going to be servicing those machines from then on?

Mr. GILBERT. We did.
Mr. KENNEDY. Always?

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Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir.
Mr. KENNEDY. Every time?

Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir. When we settled a claim, it had to be a union service machine in the location.

Mr. KENNEDY. We have here another slip of paper that I would like to ask you about.

I might say, Mr. Chairman, that on those slips we have a totaland I don't know if we have them all—a total of 231 of those slips.

You were quite busy providing the picket; were you not?
Mr. GILBERT. Our picket worked every day.

The CHAIRMAN. The Chair hands you three more slips. Just for purpose of identification, I will mark on those in blue, "4," "5," and "6."

Mr. GILBERT. All right. I am getting used to that color.

The CHAIRMAN. You may examine them and state if you identify them.

(The documents were handed to the witness.)
The CHAIRMAN. Do you recognize those slips?
Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir. I wrote them.
The CHAIRMAN. You wrote them?
Mr. GILBERT. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. What are they?

Mr. GILBERT. They are requests from the association as to the disposition of the cases mentioned here.

The CHAIRMAN. Those three may be made exhibits Nos. 16-D, 16-E, and 16-F.

(Documents referred to were marked "Exhibits 16-D, 16-E, and 16-F” for reference and may be found in the files of the select committee.)

Mr. KENNEDY. This last slip states at the top, “Association asked about these cases,” and then you list the various cases.

Mr. GILBERT. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. That was where the association called to find out if the picket had been placed and how successful you had been?

Mr. GILBERT. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. The union existed, did it not, with the help and assistance of the association ?

Mr. GILBERT. It did.
Mr. KENNEDY. It didn't exist for the employees?

Mr. GILBERT. Well, the employees didn't need a union. They made very good wages.

Mr. KENNEDY. So the group that needed the union was the association member, the operator?

Mr. GILBERT. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. Just going back to this picket once again, he was a rather elderly man, was he?

Mr. GILBERT. That is right.
Mr. KENNEDY. Why did you get an elderly man?

Mr. GILBERT. Well, I got an elderly man because I knew that there would be no violence, he wouldn't look like the type that would attack anybody, and most every time that I sent him to a location I would call the local precinct and tell them that I am placing a picket at such-and-such a bar, one man picketing peacefully.

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Mr. KENNEDY. You made a statement to us, I believe, earlier about

I an asociation, the relationship between an association and a picket, did

you not? Mr. GILBERT. Would you refresh me on it?

Mr. KENNEDY. Well, a statement to the effect of what good is an association without a picket.

Mr. GILBERT. I don't recall making that statement.

Mr. KENNEDY. Well, is that correct! Would you say that that generally follows this arrangement?

Mr. GILBERT. I don't see how an association can exist without having a picket, the force of a picket. Of course, that is only my opinion.

Mr. KENNEDY. But that summarizes your point of view in what good is an association without a picket?

Mr. GILBERT. That is right.
The CHAIRMAN. You would say you are experienced ?
Mr. GILBERT. I certainly am.
The CHAIRMAN. That fortifies your opinion somewhat?
Mr. GILBERT. Well, I wish I had the knowledge to understand that.

Senator CHURCH. That picket was quite a necessary instrument of the association, was he not?

Mr. GILBERT. Well, it was a byproduct. It turned out to be very useful to them.

Senator CHURCH. Very useful to the association ?
Mr. GILBERT. Sure.

Mr. KENNEDY. Did you ever find that the picket you sent out picketed the wrong place? Did that happen?

Mr. GILBERT. I don't think that ever happened. Mr. KENNEDY. Did you have any association member ever telephone you and tell you that the picket wasn't located exactly in the the right place?

Mr. GILBERT. Do you mean his position? Do you mean if he rested, if he wasn't in front of the place when he should be there?

Mr. KENNEDY. Yes.

Mr. GILBERT. Well, that has happened on numerous times. The operator would ride by a location of his that was being picketed and find that the picket was not on duty. He would immediately call the union. I would try to get in touch with the picket to find out why he wasn't working. But being an old man, I allowed him coffee breaks.

Mr. KENNEDY. At one time you placed a picket line at a particular location which later proved to be owned by Frank Breheney; is that right? Mr. GILBERT. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. B-r-e-h-e-n-e-y. We had some testimony on him yesterday. That was the La Salle Music Co. He is a man with some underworld connections?

Mr. GILBERT. I wouldn't know.

Mr. KENNEDY. Well, did you understand subsequently that he had some underworld connections?

Mr. GILBERT. I personally don't think so.

Mr. KENNEDY. When you put the picket line in front of the location, did he get angry?

Mr. GILBERT. He did.

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