Mr. KOLIBASH. None of them.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you found any of these labor organizations in this particular field, in this amusement and vending music field, that look out after the interest of the men who actually do the work? Mr. KOLIBASH. Well, to date they haven't helped me in 23 years. The CHAIRMAN. In your 23 years of experience, you would say they haven't helped you any up to now?

Mr. KOLIBASH. Up to now; no.

The CHAIRMAN. You have to pay dues, do you?

Mr. KOLIBASH. At one time I had dues, and as an officer they finally gave me a break and said I wouldn't have to pay them any more. The CHAIRMAN. For a long time you paid dues?

Mr. KOLIBASH. I paid dues.

The CHAIRMAN. How long since you have paid dues?

Mr. KOLIBASH. Well, I don't belong to the union right now.

The CHAIRMAN. You don't belong to it?

Mr. KOLIBASH. No.

The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Senator CHURCH. In other words, you not only have listed 16 different grievances, but you would be in disagreement with the last witness in that the employees involved in this industry are, in fact, in need of a union that would represent their interest, and the wages and working conditions are in need of real improvement?

Mr. KOLIBASH. They certainly are.

Senator CHURCH. But in 23 years of your experience, the unions with which you have had any dealings haven't furnished any real representation for these employees at all?

Mr. KOLIBASH. No, they haven't.

Senator CHURCH. Would it be too much to say that they are instrumentalities of the association members operating in the interest of the association and just masquerading as legitimate unions?

Mr. KOLIBASH. Well, I think here and there attempts have been made to try to improve it, but every time

Senator CHURCH. But these attempts have not been successful?
Mr. KOLIBASH. Every time the attempts are made, they drop.

Mr. KENNEDY. I think we differentiate between the employees of the operators. The contract would cover the employees of the operators, would it not?

Mr. KOLIBASH. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. And I believe maybe the previous witness had that in mind when he said they don't need a union.

Mr. KOLIBASH. They are well paid.

Mr. KENNEDY. They are well paid anyway?

They get

Mr. KOLIBASH. That is right. They are on a 5-day week. their vacations. If they are sick, I assume they still get paid. Mr. KENNEDY. So the contract would appear to help or assist them, but they get paid far more than the contract provides anyway? Mr. KOLIBASH. Yes. They are paid over the scale.

Mr. KENNEDY. I believe that is what they had in mind, that the only group that is not covered or the group that needs the union is the freelance mechanics and they are the only ones that are not covered. Mr. KOLIBASH. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. They are the ones that receive no benefit. Still, at this present time, you work some 60 hours a week at least, from 60 to 70 hours a week?

Mr. KOLIBASH. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. You were financial secretary of local 433?

Mr. KOLIBASH. Yes.

Mr. KENNEDY. No; recording secretary of local 433. You were recording secretary?

Mr. KOLIBASH. Recording secretary of 465.

Mr. KENNEDY. That was after 465 merged with 433; is that right? Mr. KOLIBASH. Yes.

Mr. KENNEDY. Then after that happened, you became financial secretary of 433?

Mr. KOLIBASH. I was appointed to the position.

Mr. KENNEDY. Did you ever examine the books?

Mr. KOLIBASH. No, I didn't.

Mr. KENNEDY. Who was in charge of all the books and records?

Mr. KOLIBASH. Well, the books were in the office, out in Flushing, and working in Manhattan and the Bronx, I very, very seldom get out there, so I never saw any books.

Mr. KENNEDY. Were you supposed to sign the checks?

Mr. KOLIBASH. Yes, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. Did you sign all the checks?

Mr. KOLIBASH. Yes.

Mr. KENNEDY. In blank?

Mr. KOLIBASH. In blank.

Mr. KENNEDY. Do you know what happened to the money? Mr. KOLIBASH. Well, my signature and James Caggiano's signature were required on each check.

Mr. KENNEDY. Do you know what happened after you signed the checks in blank?

Mr. KOLIBASH. I assumed all the checks were meant for union expenses, salaries.

Mr. KENNEDY. Do you know?

Mr. KOLIBASH. No, I don't.

Mr. KENNEDY. You never knew how the money was being used?

Mr. KOLIBASH. No.

Mr. KENNEDY. Who appointed you treasurer of the union?

Mr. KOLIBASH. James Caggiano.

Mr. KENNEDY. How much money did you receive as pay?

Mr. KOLIBASH. No pay.

Mr. KENNEDY. Nothing?

Mr. KOLIBASH. Nothing.

Mr. KENNEDY. You did not know that Mr. Cohen was receiving weekly payments after he severed his connection with local 433?

Mr. KOLIBASH. No; I didn't know that.

Mr. KENNEDY. You left the union. When did you leave the union? Mr. KOLIBASH. Well, I assumed our union had been knocked out of the box, but after listening to Jimmy, I understand the union is still in existence, but I am not an active member of it.

Mr. KENNEDY. Are you going back into it?

Mr. KOLIBASH. NO. I belong to an association now of self-employed

servicemen.

36751-59-pt. 46-18

Mr. KENNEDY. You are going to form your own association?
Mr. KOLIBASH. We already have it formed.

Mr. KENNEDY. An association to protect yourselves?
Mr. KOLIBASH. That is right; our own group.

Mr. KENNEDY. That is all, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. All right. Thank you very much.
Call the next witness.

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Vladeck.

The CHAIRMAN. You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. VLADECK. I do.

TESTIMONY OF STEPHEN C. VLADECK

The CHAIRMAN. State your name, your place of residence, and your business or occupation.

Mr. VLADECK. My name is Stephen C. Vladeck. I reside at 37 Riverside Drive, New York City. My office address is 280 Broadway, New York City. I am regional counsel to the Retail Clerks International Association.

The CHAIRMAN. You waive counsel, do you?

Mr. VLADECK. Yes, I do.

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Vladeck, how long have you been with the Retail Clerks?

Mr. VLADECK. I was brought into the Retail Clerks in March of 1957.

Mr. KENNEDY. What were you doing prior to that?

Mr. VLADECK. I have been an attorney in the practice of law in the city of New York, representing labor organizations and engaged in the general practice of law.

Mr. KENNEDY. In March or so of 1957, did the International Union go into New York and take over certain local unions of the Retail Clerks?

Mr. VLADECK. Yes, it did; and it was in connection with that that my firm was retained as counsel for the trustee and for the International.

Mr. KENNEDY. One of the primary situations with which you had to deal concerned a vice president of the Retail Clerks, a man by the name of Paul Lafayette; is that correct?

Mr. VLADECK. That is correct.

Mr. KENNEDY. He has already featured to some extent in the hearings that have been held by this committee over the period of the last couple of years.

You also went in and took over some locals that were operating in the field of coin-operating machines?

Mr. VLADECK. Yes. There were at least so far as the records were concerned-three local unions which had been chartered during the period of Mr. Lafayette's tenure as vice president, between September of 1952 and the imposition of International trusteeship in March of 1957. They were locals 1690, 433, and a local called Amusement and Concessionaires Local 413.

Mr. KENNEDY. Would you tell us what the situation was as far as local 433 and local 1690 was concerned, and then I would like you to move into the situation as far as Mr. DeGrandis is concerned.

Mr. VLADECK. With regard to local 433, our International representatives went to the office of local 433, located on Northern Boulevard, in Flushing, found no one of authority in the office, found no books or records in the office. All there was was a petty cash box. They left a notice of the trusteeship, signed by President Sufridge; changed the locks; and sent by registered mail to the last address which we had a copy of the notice of trusteeship imposed by the International president.

We heard nothing from any of the so-called representatives of 433 for a period of several weeks.

We later discovered that two of them were operating out of a store front in the West Forties, under the heading of local 531, and also under the title of local 465. They were Alexander Cohen and James Caggiano.

We felt at that time, and still feel, that their lack of responsiveness to the International's imposition of trust, the absence of books and records; the fact that it took us weeks to uncover who and where their membership was, and some additional facts that I would like to go into in a moment, warranted the International's action in suspending them from office and revoking the charter of local 433.

The situation with regard to 1690 was quite different. Local 1690's officers immediately came in. They had presented us with their books and records, which were turned over to the district attorney of New York County, who has checked them and found no violations of law. We found that they had membership lists. We found that they had a collective-bargaining agreement. And we found that they were willing to cooperate with us in the administration and correction of their affairs. We had many conversations with the officers of that local and with the officers of the Music Operators Association of New York, with whom they had an agreement.

After considerable soul searching, quite frankly, it was determined that that charter would not be revoked, that we would continue that local under International supervision, with the clear-cut understanding that the local was to function as a labor organization; was to negotiate with regard to wages, hours, and other conditions; that the local would not in any way act as enforcer by reason of loss of locations or obtaining locations for members of the association, and that if this was the kind of union which the industry was willing to accept, this was the only kind of union which we were willing to permit to continue under our charter.

With regard to Mr. DeGrandis, he at the time was an officer of local 413. The local, as I indicated, had jurisdiction over amusement and concessionary employees. In fact, it had less than 100 members, all of whom were employed in a hospital in Staten Island.

Our representatives found in his office no membership lists; no books; no records; no indication at all of the existence of a union. They found two items, a gun and a billy. Mr. DeGrandis was forthwith expelled from the Retail Clerks and his charter was lifted.

Mr. KENNEDY. That, of course, is of extreme importance because he became and is now the dominant figure in New York.

When you went in to find out how he was meeting his responsibilities as a union official, you found no books of records, no membership lists of any kind?

Mr. VLADECK. None.

Mr. KENNEDY. There were only two items in the office. One was a gun and the other was a billy?

Mr. VLADECK. That is correct.

Mr. KENNEDY. This was what date?

Mr. VLADECK. This was March of 1957.

Mr. KENNEDY. March of 1957.

The CHAIRMAN. Is this the man that was testified about here this morning, that is undertaking to organize and monopolize the whole area?

Mr. VLADECK. He is connected with local 266 which Mr. Kasper said was the local attempting to monopolize this industry.

The CHAIRMAN.. It is now undertaking or did start a program to take over the whole industry?

Mr. VLADECK. That is correct, Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. Organize the whole industry and have a monopoly? Mr. VLADECK. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. Where you had a proper Teamster Union, local 202, which had been active in the field. Then you have the situation where Mr. DeGrandis is thrown out of the Retail Clerks, and they found these two items in the office. He then gets a charter from the Teamsters and becomes active in that field. The Joint Council under John O'Rourke takes jurisdiction away from the good Teamsters Union and turns it over to this twice-convicted felon, and he takes over the union and is trying to gain control and domination over the whole of New York City.

Mr. VLADECK. I think there is some additional history that should be of interest to the committee. We have found, as I indicated to your investigators, I frequently must state in admiration of my own clients, the courage they have shown in fighting in this industry since March 1957 for the continuation of one clean local, immediately after the international placed these locals under trusteeship, local 1690, in conjunction with the Music Operators, brought an action in the New York courts to enjoin local 531, which was a local then in the control of Alex Cohen, Al Cohen, who had been secretary-treasurer of local 433 of the Retail Clerks, a charter which we suspended.

We were successful in obtaining from Judge Coleman in New York an order which, in effect, wiped 531 out.

Immediately another local came into existence, another letterhead union, local 19.

The Music Operators proceeded against them in a similar action which, unfortunately, we couldn't afford to join in, but for which we provided information and witnesses, and that local, too, was enjoined from its activity. Subsequently, local 202 showed an interest in this field, and we were frankly surprised because we felt that local 202's interest was a legitimate one, at least we hoped it was

Mr. KENNEDY. That is Teamsters?

Mr. VLADECK. That is Teamsters, but that is a local which was under the direction of Tom Hickey.