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Mr. DENVER. He told my manager, or let me put it this way, my manager saw there was something wrong, and so he tried to walk toward the door to get out, and so this particular individual said, “Now look, be a nice boy, stay there, and nothing will be said and nothing will be done.”

My man just stood there.

Mr. KENNEDY. So there were two people that were there evidently for the beating?

Mr. DENVER. Yes, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. One of them kept your office manager in line and the other one went in and did the beating.

Mr. DENVER. Yes, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. You didn't know anything about that, that this was going to transpire?

Mr. DENVER. Of course not. Mr. KENNEDY. That is all, Mr. Chairman. Senator CHURCH. Mr. Denver, if your present struggle with local 266, it doesn't come as any surprise to the members of this committee that underworld figures should have taken over, nor that they are affiliated with the Teamsters International, which seems to have become a kind of national refuge for scoundrels, but I do want to commend you for the determined resistance against this kind of intimidation that you are putting up. I think that that constitutes the surest defense against the spread of racketeering in any community and in any industry that we have.

I want to wish you every success in your efforts.

Yesterday we had the testimony of the counsel for the Retail Clerks, the regional counsel, who explained that that union has tried to make sure that local 1690 is a legitimate labor union interested in those legitimate objectives for which labor unions are formed.

I think if we are to have success in this field, it is going to take the joint efforts of those in the industry and those honest people who are involved in the union movement, and without that joint effort certainly the racketeers and the hoodlums are not going to be forced out.

So I want to commend you for coming here today, and for giving us the benefit of this testimony, and I want to wish you every success in your continued efforts in New York City.

Mr. DENVER. Thank you very much.
The CHAIRMAN. Is there anything further?
If not, call the next witness.

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Denver has testified as to the activities of these various unions who are competing to try to take over the operations in the coin-machine business. One of the most active was focal 531, headed by Mr. Al Cohen, about whom we have had testimony, and about whom we are going to have further testimony. That local 531 was a local in the United Industrial Union, an international union, and so we felt that it would be helpful to the committee to call the international president of that union and have him give us testimony as to what the situation as far as the granting of the charter. I would like to call Mr. Joseph La Rocco.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. La Rocco, come around.

You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. La Rocco. I do.

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH LaROCCO, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,

JULIUS HELFAND
The CHAIRMAN. What is your name?
Mr. LaRocco. Joseph La Rocco.
The CHAIRMAN. Where do you live, Mr. LaRocco?
Mr. LaRocco. 2142 76th Street, Brooklyn.
The CHAIRMAN. What is your business or occupation, please?

Mr. LaRocco. I refuse to answer on the ground that the answer may tend to incriminate me.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Counsel, what did you say his business is, or what his position is?

Mr. KENNEDY. International president of the United Industrial Union. It is an international union located at 1 Nevins Street, Brooklyn, N.Y. We understand he is also president of Production, Service & Warehouse Employees Union, Local 710, of the United Industrial Union.

The CHAIRMAN. You have heard the statement of counsel. Do you wish to deny that you hold these positions, or either of them?

Mr. LaRocco. I refuse to answer on the ground that the answer might tend to incriminate me.

The CHAIRMAN. Don't you think your refusal to answer incriminates the union itself, the international—the United Industrial Union? Don't you think it reflects upon it if you take the position you can't tell about being an officer in it without self-incrimination?

Wouldn't the implication be that there is something rotten in the thing?

Mr. LaRocco. I refuse to answer on the ground that the answer might tend to incriminate me.

The CHAIRMAN. I do not know what your members think of it, but I trust that a lot of them are decent people. But I would haté to be one of your members and have you as my president when you take a position that you cannot acknowledge that fact without selfincrimination.

All right, Mr. Counsel, proceed.
Wait a minute.
Counsel, will you identify yourself, please?
Mr. HELFAND. Julius Helfand, 1501 Broadway, New York City.
The CHAIRMAN. Proceed.

Mr. KENNEDY. The fact is, Mr. La Rocco, that your international union is virtually a paper international union, is it not ?

Mr. LaRocco. I refuse to answer on the ground that the answer might tend to incriminate me.

Mr. KENNEDY. We have had discussions about paper locals, Mr. Chairman, but this is the first time we have had what really amounts to a paper international.

Isn't that correct, Mr. LaRocco? Mr. LaRocco. I refuse to answer on the ground that the answer might tend to incriminate me.

The CHAIRMAN. Is this union, the United Industrial Union International, is it affiliated with the AFL-CIO?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. LaRocco. I refuse to answer on the ground that the answer might tend to incriminate me.

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The CHAIRMAN. What information do we have ?
Mr. KENNEDY. It is an independent union, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. I am glad to know it is not affiliated with the federation.

Proceed.

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, this is the first of several witnesses on some of these international unions which are formed and then grant charters out to locals. A number of these locals, as will be demonstrated, are locals which are controlled by gangsters, who then appear with placards and start to picket. It is a situation that we felt was important for the committee to understand.

The CHAIRMAN. What it amounts to, as I understand it, and you will be able to show from the proof, is that charters granted by unions of this character, like the one this witness represents, those charters simply become in effect a license to go out and exploit and to racketeer and commit these improper acts; is that correct?

Mr. KENNEDY. Another way to describe them, Mr. Chairman, is that they are really hunting licenses. They hunt not animals, but they hunt shops in order to either shake them down or to make some collusive arrangement with some employer. That is what they do amount to.

I would like to call Mr. Constandy, Mr. Chairman, to trace the development of this union as much as we can from the records that are available.

The CHAIRMAN. All right, Mr. Constandy.
Mr. KENNEDY. What information, Mr. Constandy-
The CHAIRMAN. You have been previously sworn?
Mr. CONSTANDY. Yes, I have.

Mr. KENNEDY. About this union and how long it has been in existence.

The CHAIRMAN. That is the United Industrial Union, International?

TESTIMONY OF JOHN P. CONSTANDY-Resumed

Mr. CONSTANDY. That is correct.

The international, according to Mr. LaRocco, has been in existence since 1937.

The CHAIRMAN. According to this witness?
Mr. CONSTANDY. That is correct.
The CHAIRMAN. You got your information about that from him?
Mr. CONSTANDY. That is correct.

The CHAIRMAN. All right. That was from the witness on the stand. Proceed.

Mr. CONSTANDY. I have before me the registration forms of the Department of Labor for 1950 through 1958. The forms for the years 1950, 1951, 1952, and 1953, on the reverse side, relative to the receipts and disbursements, each contain the notation "None" for each of those 4 years. The CHAIRMAN. No receipts and no disbursements ? Mr. CONSTANDY. That is correct.

The CHAIRMAN. That is the kind of reporting this union has been doing?

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Mr. CONSTANDY. For those 4 years; yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. All right; proceed.

Mr. CONSTANDY. Nor are there any assets or liabilities listed for the same period. In each of these, the address of the international is 76 Court Street, Brooklyn.

On the registration form for the year 1954, the address is moved to 1040 McLean Avenue, Yonkers, N.Y., and we find a different set of officers.

On the reverse side of this form we again find that there have been no receipts or disbursements, and the notation has been entered that no moneys of any kind have been received.

The CHAIRMAN. In other words, that is for 5 years that it has received no money and paid out no money, according to its report?

Mr. CONSTANDY. That is correct.
The CHAIRMAN. Who signed the report?

Mr. CONSTANDY. On the one for 1954, it was signed by the president, Mr. Gerard Perrault. Did you want it for the preceding years?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. CONSTANDY. In 1950 the form was signed by President George Levine. In 1951, likewise; in 1952, likewise; in 1953, likewise.

Continuing with the runthrough of these, the form for 1955, the international again moved, this time to 38 Park Road, New York. The president is Al Pollock, the secretary-treasurer Sidney Dubin, and the recording secretary Robert Dizinno.

For this year there again is listed no income and no assets.

The CHAIRMAN. That is 6 years now, beginning with 1950, that they have reported no income and no expenditures?

Mr. CONSTANDY. Yes, sir. On the form for 1956, which has been signed by Mr. LaRocco, we find that the receipts listed are $75, with no disbursements, and total assets are $75, and no liabilities for that year.

The CHAIRMAN. That is the present witness who signed that one?
Mr. CONSTANDY. That is correct.
The CHAIRMAN. That is for 1956 ?
Mr. CONSTANDY. For 1956; yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. All right. The international union took in $75?
Mr. CONSTANDY. That is correct.
The CHAIRMAN. And paid out nothing?
Mr. CONSTANDY. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. You have accounted for 7 years. In 6 years there was nothing taken in and nothing paid out, and in the 7th year they collected $75, according to the report.

Mr. CONSTANDY. On the 1955 form, there is a notation to the effect that the union is inactive in 1955.

The CHAIRMAN. Inactive?
Mr. CONSTANDY. That is correct.

Mr. KENNEDY. Now we get to the part that directly involves this investigation.

The CHAIRMAN. They couldn't be very active if they weren't taking in any money or paying out any.

Go ahead.

Mr. KENNEDY. What occurred in the following year that is significant?

36751—59—pt. 46--20

Mr. CONSTANDY. For one thing, the 1955 form contains the initiation fee and the regular dues of $1. At the time that Mr. La Rocco signed the form, the initiation fee was changed to $1 and the dues were dropped to 25 cents. That is one significant fact.

The fiscal period covered by the 1956 return runs from September 24, 1955, until August 31, 1956. The fiscal period of the preceding year ended July 31. Therefore, there was a gap in the fiscal period for the international of 3 months.

Mr. KENNEDY. Get into the chartering of local 531, Mr. Constandy, which is of significance to us. Local 531 then came into existence, is that right, in September of 1956 ?

Mr. CONSTANDY. That is correct.

Mr. KENNEDY. That is the local, Mr. Chairman, that we have had the testimony on, which was headed by Mr. Al Cohen.

Would it appear from the minutes that the union was reactivated in order to grant this charter to local 531 ?

Mr. CONSTANDY. Both from the minutes and the cash receipts and disbursements books which begin in August of that same year, 1956.

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Cohen began his operations in the coin machine business and tied up then with this so-called international union?

Mr. CONSTANDY. That is correct.

Mr. KENNEDY. Briefly tell us the inconsistencies about the chartering of this union.

Mr. CONSTANDY. I have before me a letter dated September 10, 1956, addressed to the UIU and signed by Al Cohen.

The CHAIRMAN. Addressed to whom?
Mr. CONSTANDY. Simply, UIU, 1 Nevins Street, Brooklyn, N.Y.
Shall I read the letter?
Mr. KENNEDY. Just summarize it.

Mr. CONSTANDY. Well, the letter requests a charter and states that there will be a meeting between Mr. Cohen and the UIU on September 20. That letter is dated September 10.

On September 12, there is a letter from Mr. LaRocco to Mr. Cohen, acknowledging receipt of his letter and agreeing to the meeting on September 20.

The CHAIRMAN. Those two letters may be made exhibits No. 19A and 19B, in the order they were referred to.

(Letters referred to were marked "Exhibits 19A and 19B" for reference and may be found in the files of the select committee.)

Mr. CONSTANDY. Now I have before me the charter, issued to Electrical Equipment and Fabrication Employees Union, Local 531, which bears the notation, "Charter issued September 20, 1958," which is the same date as the meeting, according to the letters. The CHAIRMAN. The charter may be made exhibit No. 19C.

(Charter referred to was marked “Exhibit No. 19C” for reference and may be found in the files of the select committee.)

Mr. KENNEDY. What do the minutes show?

Mr. CONSTANDY. The minutes show the chairman on September 5 met with Al Cohen and a committee who requested a charter of the IUE. The letter requests a meeting on September 20, but the minutes of the international show the chairman met on September 5. The minutes then go on to state that the charter will be issued effective

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