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Mr. PEARL. I don't know.

Mr. KENNEDY. He has been arrested four times, burglary, assault and robbery, assault and robbery with gun, and he was convicted only of simple assault in 1954, You were elected in October of 1956. When did

you

find out where the headquarters were?

Mr. PEARL. I would say in February of 1957.

Mr. KENNEDY. That was about the time that Mr. Cohen's brother returned and he wanted to release you as an employee of local 433 and put his brother in as organizer?

Mr. PEARL. That is correct. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. So he said that he would arrange to have you placed on the payroll of 531; is that right?

Mr. PEARL. That is correct.

Mr. KENNEDY. When you were president of 531 you weren't drawing any salary?

Mr. PEARL. No, I was not drawing any salary and I had no duties.

Mr. KENNEDY. So he put you in in 433 and in 531. In 531 you were president. When his brother came back about a month after this occurred, he put his brother in to replace you in 433 and started paying you a salary from 531; is that right?

Mr. PEARL. That is correct.

Mr. KENNEDY. What were your duties? What were you supposed to be doing for 531 or for 4337

Mr. PEARL. Organizational duties, primarily.
Mr. KENNEDY. Did you go around to the various taverns?
Mr. PEARL. Not for 433; only for local 531.
Mr. KENNEDY. What would you do?
Mr. PEARL. I would go with a picket.
Mr. KENNEDY. Who was the picket?

! Mr. PEARL. Well, it varied on occasions, but Sonny Parker was a picket.

Mr. KENNEDY. Sonny Parker?
Mr. PEARL. Yes.
Mr. KENNEDY. Was he the one that you traveled with the most?
Mr. PEARL. On most occasions I would say.

Mr. KENNEDY. So you and the picket would go around. What would you do then?

Mr. PEARL. We would take the yellow pages and frequent taverns and I would go into the tavern, introduce myself to the owner, and request that we enlisted his cooperation as respects the jukebox on the premises, asking him to please pull the plug.

Mr. KENNEDY. To pull the plug?

Mr. PEARL. Yes, and informing him that the jukebox was not-or the operator of the jukebox was not a member of local 531, and would he please have the operator contact the local offices, local 531 offices.

Mr. KENNEDY. Did you ever talk to an employee ?

Mr. PEARL. Perhaps on an occasion, if the owner was not present at the time I visited the bar.

Mr. KENNEDY. Did you ever talk to the man who serviced
Mr. PEARL. An employee, do you mean, of the
Mr. KENNEDY. The man who serviced the machines.
Mr. PEARL. I don't believe so.

Mr. KENNEDY. The fellow that you were trying to get into the union; did you ever actually talk to him?

Mr. PEARL. No, sir.
Mr. KENNEDY. This is the procedure you were told to follow!
Mr. PEARL. That is correct.

Mr. KENNEDY. Ask him to pull the plug from the machine and turn it to the wall and put another machine in!

Mr. PEARL. I don't believe I asked him to turn it to the wall. I had a prepared speech that was given to me by Mr. Cohen and it didn't include, I don't believe, telling him to turn the machine to the wall.

The CHAIRMAN. As I understood, what you did was you got him to pull the plug so that the machine wouldn't operate.

Mr. PEARL. That is what I requested of the owner.

The CHAIRMAN. You requested that and told him to have the operator, the one who had put the machine in there, get in touch with your local?

Mr. PEARL. Well, with the local, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Your local, the one that you were representing. Isn't that correct?

Mr. PEARL. In a sense; yes.
The CHAIRMAN. In a sense?
Mr. PEARL. Well, I considered myself-

The CHAIRMAN. That is what you were doing at the time, presumably, and what you thought you were doing, working for that local, to get members.

Mr. PEARL. I thought of myself as an employee; that is correct.

The CHAIRMAN. The way you were getting members was to get the location owner to pull the plug and have the operator get in touch with your local.

Mr. PEARL. That is correct.
The CHAIRMAN. Then the pressure was put on, of course, to join
Mr. PEARL. Not by me, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. I know not by you. You were performing your job to get him in contact.

Mr. PEARL. That is correct.
The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Mr. KENNEDY. If your request was refused, if they refused to pull the plug, what would you do then, generally?

Mr. PEARL. The picket was usually placed outside the location.
Mr. KENNEDY. And he started marching up and down?
Mr. PEARL. That is right.
The CHAIRMAN. Did he carry a sign already prepared!
Mr. PEARL. Yes, he did, sir.
Mr. KENNEDY. You made no effort to sign up any of the employees?
Mr. PEARL. I did not.

Mr. KENNEDY. Do you know if anyone ever joined the union through your efforts ?

Mr. PEARL. I don't know whether they joined through my efforts, but I do believe there were people that joined.

Mr. KENNEDY. Do you know that? Mr. PEARL. I presumed it. I would state that I know of two people, I believe. I mentioned previously how I know it, by virtue of being

your local.

given these cards, these membership cards which I presumed them to be.

Mr. KENNEDY. Was that a membership card, an application card, or what!

Mr. PEARL. It was either membership or application. I do not know at this time.

Mr. KENNEDY. So you don't know, really, if anyone joined the union

Mr. PEARL. It would just be a presumption on my part.

Mr. KENNEDY. As president of the union, did you ever meet any of the members of the union !

Mr. PEARL. Well, only. I would say, at the time of the inception of the union, which was in October.

Mr. KENNEDY. Which was at the meeting?
Mr. PEARL. At the meeting; yes.

Mr. KENNEDY. Beyond that, after you were made president, did you ever meet any of the members of the union?

Mr. PEARL. Not to my knowledge.
Mr. KENNEDY. Did you ever see a membership book?
Mr. PEARL. No; I did not, sir.
Mr. KENNEDY. Did you ever seo a collective bargaining agreement ?
Mr. PEARL. I did not, sir.
Mr. KENNEDY. Did you ever see a membership list!
Mr. PEARL. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. KENNEDY. Do you know if they had a bank account?
Mr. PEARL. I do not know.
Mr. KENNEDY. Who paid you? Where did the money come from?
Mr. PEARL. Mr. Cohen paid me from his private checking account.
Mr. KENNEDY. What was local 531! Who was 531
Mr. PEARL. Mr. Cohen.
Mr. KENNEDY. He was 531 ?
Mr. PEARL. Well, to me he was.

Mr. KENNEDY. If somebody came to you and wanted to join the union, what would you do?

Mr. PEARL. I would send them to Mr. Cohen.

Mr. KENNEDY. Did you know how to get them in the union yourself?

Mr. PEARL. No; I did not, sir.
Mr. KENNEDY. You resigned from local 531 in April of 1957?
Mr. PEARL. April 1, 1957.
Mr. KENNEDY. So you stayed only a few short months?
Mr. PEARL. A few short weeks.
Mr. KENNEDY. Well, from October

Mr. PEARL. I am sorry. Well, actively a few short weeks; inactively, a few short months.

Mr. KENNEDY. I think the whole thing sounds a little brief, doesn't it?

Mr. PEARL. On my part I hope so.
Mr. KENNEDY. Were you an applicant for the charter of 531?
Mr. PEARL. No; I was not.
Mr. KENNEDY. Your name appears on it. Did you know that?
Mr. PEARL. No.

Mr. KENNEDY. The first meeting you held, the organizational meeting, was there ever any meeting after that?

Mr. PEARL. None to my knowledge, and none which I attended.

Mr. KENNEDY. Do you know if any of the operators that you were trying to sign up were self-employed? Do you know that? Mr. PEARL. The operators, whether they were self-employed ? Mr. KENNEDY. Yes. Mr. PEARL. No; I am afraid I don't understand the question.

Mr. KENNEDY. When you went around to these locations, and when you were trying to sign the operators up, did you know if they actually had any employees or whether they were self-employed ?

Mr. PEARL. Well, truthfully, at the time that I was employed in local 531, I had no prior knowledge of the industry, and I did not know any of the operators personally. I didn't even know what the word “operator" really inferred at the time.

Mr. KENNEDY. You didn't know anything about the industry or anything about the union?

Mr. PEARL. No; I didn't know whether an operator was an employee or an employer.

Mr. KENNEDY. Did you enjoy being president of local 531 ?
Mr. PEARL. I wouldn't have turned in my resignation had I.
Mr. KENNEDY. Did you know what international it was a part of!
Mr. PEARL. Yes, I did, sir.
Mr. KENNEDY. Did you know at the time?

Mr. PEARL. Yes, I did. I didn't know where the international was located or have any meetings or affiliations with any international representatives, but I did know that it was United Industrial Workers.

The CHAIRMÁN. Did it have a headquarters?
Mr. PEARL. I couldn't say, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Did you ever find the headquarters of it?
Mr. PEARL. I never attempted to, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. That was the union that Mr. La Rocco, who appeared this morning, is international president of. He took the fifth amendment.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you have a headquarters for local 531 ?
Mr. PEARL. There was an office, yes; a store.
The CHAIRMAN. An office?
Mr. PEARL. Well, it was a store, actually. It was an office store.
The CHAIRMAN. Would you recognize a picture of it if you would
Mr. PEARL. Yes, I would, definitely.

The CHAIRMAN. I will ask you to examine this and state if this is a picture of your headquarters, local 531.

(The photograph was handed to the witness.)
Mr. PEARL. Yes, sir; that is a picture of it.
The CHAIRMAN. That picture may be made exhibit No. 21.

(Photograph referred to was marked “Exhibit No. 21" for reference and may be found in the files of the select committee.)

The CHAIRMAN. Did you have a desk in it?
Mr. PEARL. Yes, it did, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Was the inside appearance about the same as the outside ?

Mr. PEARL. I would say a little more presentable.
The CHAIRMAN. A little what?
Mr. PEARL. A little more presentable.

see it?

Mr. KENNEDY. This place is now Mr. Cagiano's place of operation, Mr. Chairman. At various times during the past few years it has served as the headquarters for 465 of the IUE, 465 Independent, 433 of the RCIA, 531 of UIU, 465 Independent, and 465 CUE.

The CHAIRMAN. It looks like it has been shopworn considerably. I can understand now.

Were you folks the last occupants of it!
Mr. PEARL. Pardon me, sir?
The CHAIRMAN. Was 531 the last occupant of it?

Mr. PEARL. I wouldn't know. I didn't arrange for the signing of the lease.

The CHAIRMAN. You don't know what happened after you left ?
Mr. PEARL. I don't know at all.

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, also, that is the place where Mr. Gilbert, the witness yesterday, was repairing the inside of the office, and when one of the employees resigned he was made recording secretary of the union.

That is all.
The CHAIRMAN. All right. Thank you very much.
Call the next witness.

Mr. KENNEDY. This witness has testified that he brought a picket around with him, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Sonny Parker. I would like to call Mr. Parker.

The CHAIRMAN. Come forward, Mr. Parker. Be sworn.

You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God!

Mr. PARKER. I do.

TESTIMONY OF SONNY PARKER, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,

SAMUEL P. SHAPIRO The CHAIRMAN. State your name, your place of residence, and your business or occupation ?

Mr. PARKER. Sonny Parker is my name. I live at 606 Marcy Avenue, Brooklyn.

The CHAIRMAN. In Brooklyn?
Mr. PARKER. Brooklyn, N.Y.
The CHAIRMAN. What is your business or occupation, Sonny!
Mr. PARKER. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of the
fifth amendment.

The CHAIRMAN. Sonny, you have a lawyer, do you?
Mr. PARKER. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Lawyer, identify yourself.

Mr. SHAPIRO. Samuel P. Shapiro, 188 Montague Street, Brooklyn, N.Y.

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, I must protest about this. This witness has been most cooperative. We do not have one piece of derogatory information on him. He has cooperated during all of our investigation. We have had a number of conferences with him. He has given us all the information that we have asked of him. This committee does not have one single piece of derogatory information about this man. I would like to find out what has happened in the last 24 hours that has brought about his taking the fifth amendment.

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