Mr. PEARL. None to my knowledge, and none which I attended. Mr. KENNEDY. Do you know if any of the operators that you were trying to sign up were self-employed? Do you know that? Mr. PEARL. The operators, whether they were self-employed? Mr. PEARL. NO; I am afraid I don't understand the question. Mr. KENNEDY. When you went around to these locations, and when you were trying to sign the operators up, did you know if they actually had any employees or whether they were self-employed? Mr. PEARL. Well, truthfully, at the time that I was employed in local 531, I had no prior knowledge of the industry, and I did not know any of the operators personally. I didn't even know what the word "operator" really inferred at the time. Mr. KENNEDY. You didn't know anything about the industry or anything about the union? Mr. PEARL. NO; I didn't know whether an operator was an employee or an employer. Mr. KENNEDY. Did you enjoy being president of local 531? Mr. PEARL. I wouldn't have turned in my resignation had I. Mr. KENNEDY. Did you know what international it was a part of? Mr. PEARL. Yes, I did, sir. Mr. KENNEDY. Did you know at the time? Mr. PEARL. Yes, I did. I didn't know where the international was located or have any meetings or affiliations with any international representatives, but I did know that it was United Industrial Workers. The CHAIRMAN. Did it have a headquarters? Mr. PEARL. I couldn't say, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Did you ever find the headquarters of it? Mr. PEARL. I never attempted to, sir. Mr. KENNEDY. That was the union that Mr. LaRocco, who appeared this morning, is international president of. He took the fifth amendment. The CHAIRMAN. Did you have a headquarters for local 531? Mr. PEARL. There was an office, yes; a store. The CHAIRMAN. An office? Mr. PEARL. Well, it was a store, actually. It was an office store. The CHAIRMAN. Would you recognize a picture of it if you would see it? Mr. PEARL. Yes, I would, definitely. The CHAIRMAN. I will ask you to examine this and state if this is a picture of your headquarters, local 531. (The photograph was handed to the witness.) Mr. PEARL. Yes, sir; that is a picture of it. The CHAIRMAN. That picture may be made exhibit No. 21. (Photograph referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 21" for refer ence and may be found in the files of the select committee.) The CHAIRMAN. Did you have a desk in it? Mr. PEARL. Yes, it did, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Was the inside appearance about the same as the outside? Mr. PEARL. I would say a little more presentable. The CHAIRMAN. A little what? Mr. PEARL. A little more presentable. Mr. KENNEDY. This place is now Mr. Cagiano's place of operation, Mr. Chairman. At various times during the past few years it has served as the headquarters for 465 of the IUE, 465 Independent, 433 of the RCIA, 531 of UIU, 465 Independent, and 465 CUE. The CHAIRMAN. It looks like it has been shopworn considerably. I can understand now. Were you folks the last occupants of it? Mr. PEARL. Pardon me, sir? The CHAIRMAN. Was 531 the last occupant of it? Mr. PEARL. I wouldn't know. I didn't arrange for the signing of the lease. The CHAIRMAN. You don't know what happened after you left? Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, also, that is the place where Mr. Gilbert, the witness yesterday, was repairing the inside of the office, and when one of the employees resigned he was made recording secretary of the union. That is all. The CHAIRMAN. All right. Thank you very much. Call the next witness. Mr. KENNEDY. This witness has testified that he brought a picket around with him, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Sonny Parker. I would like to call Mr. Parker. The CHAIRMAN. Come forward, Mr. Parker. Be sworn. You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. PARKER. I do. TESTIMONY OF SONNY PARKER, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, SAMUEL P. SHAPIRO The CHAIRMAN. State your name, your place of residence, and your business or occupation? Mr. PARKER. Sonny Parker is my name. I live at 606 Marcy Avenue, Brooklyn. The CHAIRMAN. In Brooklyn? Mr. PARKER. Brooklyn, N.Y. The CHAIRMAN. What is your business or occupation, Sonny? Mr. PARKER. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground of the fifth amendment. The CHAIRMAN. Sonny, you have a lawyer, do you? Mr. PARKER. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Lawyer, identify yourself. Mr. SHAPIRO. Samuel P. Shapiro, 188 Montague Street, Brooklyn, N.Y. Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, I must protest about this. This witness has been most cooperative. We do not have one piece of derogatory information on him. He has cooperated during all of our investigation. We have had a number of conferences with him. He has given us all the information that we have asked of him. This committee does not have one single piece of derogatory information about this man. I would like to find out what has happened in the last 24 hours that has brought about his taking the fifth amendment. The CHAIRMAN. Ask him. Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, this man has a fine reputation. There is nothing in his background or career that has anything of a derogatory nature. I think it is outrageous. The CHAIRMAN. How old are you, Sonny? Mr. PARKER. I am 28. The CHAIRMAN. Where were you born? Mr. PARKER. In New York. The CHAIRMAN. You were born in New York. Did you go to school there? Mr. PARKER. Yes, I did. The CHAIRMAN. What was your first job after you got out of school? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. PARKER. I respectfully decline to answer. Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, I would like to find out and ask if this lawyer, the attorney, is also the attorney for Mr. Cohen, who is a main witness and a witness about whom we have a good deal of derogatory information. Mr. SHAPIRO. If Mr. Cohen will be called, I will appear for him. Mr. SHAPIRO. I have given it to you. Samuel P. Shapiro. The CHAIRMAN. Sonny Parker, let me ask you: Have you heretofore been talking to members of the committee staff? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. PARKER. I respectfully decline. Mr. KENNEDY. I spent an hour with him myself, Mr. Chairman, and Mr. Walter May and Mr. Constandy have had several interviews with him. The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask the witness two or three questions. Did you retain this lawyer who sits there by you now? Did you, yourself, retain him to represent you? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) The CHAIRMAN. I am asking you. You don't have to ask him about that. I am asking you. Did you retain him? Mr. PARKER. Yes, I retained him. The CHAIRMAN. When? When? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) The CHAIRMAN. I mean business now. I am not taking any foolishTell me when you hired him? ness. Mr. PARKER. I hired him after I was subpenaed. The CHAIRMAN. After what? Mr. PARKER. After I had been subpenaed. The CHAIRMAN. When did you hire him? Mr. PARKER. I can't remember the date offhand. The CHAIRMAN. Was it yesterday? Mr. PARKER. No, it was not. The CHAIRMAN. Did you talk to members of the committee staff yesterday? Did you? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) The CHAIRMAN. Did you talk to members of the committee staff yesterday? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. PARKER. Not about the business here. The CHAIRMAN. You didn't discuss this matter with the committee staff yesterday. When did you hire this attorney? You ought to know something about it. Mr. PARKER. It was sometime in November I hired him. The CHAIRMAN. Sometime last November you hired this lawyer? Have you paid him anything? Mr. PARKER. No, but we have made arrangements. The CHAIRMAN. What are your arrangements? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) Mr. PARKER. I decline to answer on the ground of the fifth amendment. Mr. KENNEDY. I talked to you in November or December. You didn't have this attorney with you at that time, Mr. Parker. There wasn't anything that I asked you that could possibly incriminate you and the answers that you gave. The CHAIRMAN. Put on your witnesses that talked to him. Let's have the story. Mr. KENNEDY. The only thing we were going to ask him was if he was a picket and if he had the same kind of testimony as the previous witness. He went around from place to place; he was sent around there by Mr. Cohen. He gave us all of these cards. He said he had five or six cards. He worked for various locals at various times as a professional picket. The one particular local he was working for at the time, he would keep that card in his vest pocket to make sure he could remember what local he was working for, and the rest of the cards he kept in his back pocket. Is that right, Mr. Parker? That is the only reason. You were a professional picket and you went around and that was all you did. It was a job that you had. There wasn't one bit of derogatory information. You were given the job by Mr. Cohen, who sent you around and gave you all of these cards and told you how to pull them out. If there was somebody who did anything wrong, it was Mr. Cohen; it wasn't you. The CHAIRMAN. Do you want to testify and tell the truth, or do you want to join up with this gang of thugs? Is that what you want to do? You make the choice. You are making it here today. The staff tells me they haven't anything on you. There isn't any reason why you couldn't come up here and tell the truth. Do you want to join that gangster element in this country, that underworld, the scum of humanity, or do you want to be a man? Which do you want to do? Can you answer? Mr. PARKER. I respectfully decline to answer. The CHAIRMAN. You know what you are doing, I assume. Proceed, Mr. Kennedy. Do you want to ask any questions? Mr. KENNEDY. I will say, Mr. Chairman, the second point we have of interest on Mr. Parker was that he was also made international vice president of this union, the UIU, and we believe that he is now secretary-treasurer of local 531. There isn't anything beyond that that we were going to ask him about. We have no information of any misuse of union funds or misuse of his position, or his threatening anybody, nor does he have a police record or a criminal record. The CHAIRMAN. Look at that. What is it? (The document was handed to the witness.) The CHAIRMAN. What is it? What is that before you that I am presenting to you? Do you recognize it? Mr. PARKER. I respectfully decline to answer. The CHAIRMAN. I hand you another one. What is it? (The document was handed to the witness.) Do you recognize that? The CHAIRMAN. Isn't that your name and the card that was issued to you? Mr. PARKER. I respectfully decline to answer. The CHAIRMAN. I show you another one. Does it bear your name? (The document was handed to the witness.) The CHAIRMAN. Aren't these cards from unions, listing you as a picket, that sent you out to do picket work? Isn't that true? Mr. PARKER. I respectfully decline to answer. The CHAIRMAN. I show you another one. Wasn't that one issued to you as a picket to go out and do picket work? The document was handed to the witness.) Mr. PARKER. I respectfully decline to answer. The CHAIRMAN. And didn't you actually serve as a professional picket? Isn't that true? Mr. PARKER. I respectfully decline to answer, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Are you ashamed of them? Are you ashamed of your name and the cards that were issued to you? Mr. PARKER. I respectfully decline to answer, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Is that as loud as you can say it? Let these cards be made exhibit No. 22. (Cards referred to were marked "Exhibit No. 22" for reference and may be found in the files of the select committee.) Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Parker, the fact is that you have been intimidated, have you not, and that is why you are taking the fifth amendment now? Isn't that correct? Isn't that correct, Mr. Parker? Mr. PARKER. I decline to answer. Mr. KENNEDY. You have been told by Mr. Cohen and his associates that you have to take the fifth amendment; is that right? Isn't that right, that you have been threatened and that is why you are taking the fifth amendment? Mr. PARKER. I decline to answer on the ground of the fifth amendment. Mr. KENNEDY. You haven't done anything, Mr. Parker. There is no reason and you know as well as we do that there is no reason. We checked your background. We checked your activities. You never threatened anybody. You always behaved as a gentleman when you went into the taverns. The fact that there was any problem was from the people that came around with you. You never did anything. You behaved absolutely perfectly. You were hired for this job, and you told us all about the fact that you were hired. The only reason, the only explanation that can possibly be given for taking the fifth amendment now is that you have been threatened, |