페이지 이미지
PDF
ePub

game route!

But you didn't know anything about its operation ?
Mr. Saul. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you know you were becoming a member of a union when you bought this

Mr. Saul. I did, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. You knew when you bought it that you automatically became a member of the local union ?

Mr. SAUL. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. You don't remember its number?
Mr. Saul. I don't believe it was 1690.
Mr. KENNEDY. It might have been 433, then?
Mr. SAUL. Yes.
Mr. KENNEDY. 1690 was the jukeboxes and 433 was the game.
Mr. SAUL. Yes, that is right; 433.

The CHAIRMAN. You know you became a member of some union, but you don't know which it was!

Mr. SAUL. It was 433.
Mr. KENNEDY. That was the game union?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. When you joined the jukebox association, didn't you also belong to the jukebox local?

Mr. SAUL. I joined myself.
Mr. KENNEDY. Did you join it yourself?
Mr. SAUL. Yes.
Mr. KENNEDY. What local was that?
Mr. SAUL. 1690.
Mr. KENNEDY. Subsequently you joined that?
Mr. SAUL. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. Did that make you a member of both locals?
Mr. SAUL. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. In other words, to operate a game machine you had to belong to 433?

Mr. SAUL. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. And to operate jukeboxes you had to belong to 1690?

Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. And 1690 was the Clerks' union ?
Mr. SAUL. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. What was 433?
Mr. Saul. That was a Retail Clerks Union, too, I believe.
The CHAIRMAN. Both of them were Retail Clerks?
Mr. SAUL. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. I don't know why you would have to belong to two locals.

Mr. Saul. Well, one worked with the game machines and the other one consisted mainly of jukeboxes.

The CHAIRMAN. So you had to belong to two different locals; pay two different sets of dues ?

Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.

Senator CAPEHART. Did you say you had to belong? What do you mean by that?

Mr. ŠAUL. No; I don't believe I had to belong.
Senator CAPEHART. Did you join of your own volition?

Mr. Saul. Yes, I did.
Senator CAPEHART. No one forced you to join!
Mr. SAUL. No.
Senator CAPEHART. They did not?
Mr. Saul. No, sir.
Senator CAPEHART. Were you the owner of the business?
Mr. SAUL. Yes, I was.

Senator CAPEHART. What do you mean, then you did join? What do you mean, as owner of the business? Did you join the union as an owner of the business or do you mean your employees joined the union? Mr. Saul. As owner and operator. I operated my own business. Senator CAPEHART. You did all the work? Mr. SAUL. Yes, sir.

Senator CAPEHART. Therefore, you were the owner and the workman?

Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.

Senator CAPEHART. And as the owner and workman, you became a member of this union?

Mr. SAUL. Yes, sir.

Senator CAPEHART. But they did not force you to become a member?

Mr. Saul. Well, if I remember correctly—it is a little hazy in my mind—I think 433 automatically sent me a bill, a statement, for union dues. The other union I joined on my own free will.

Senator CAPEHART. Could you have operated these machines if you hadn't joined the union?

Mr. SAUL. I don't believe I could have.

Mr. KENNEDY. In May of 1957 you received a service call from one of your locations?

Mr. SAUL. Yes, sir.
Mr. KENNEDY. A restaurant called the Wagon Wheel?
Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. At 6610 14th Avenue, Brooklyn, N.Y.; is that right? Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. You referred the call to your freelance serviceman at that time?

Mr. Saul. I did.

Mr. KENNEDY. Later that day you called at the Wagon Wheel; is that right? You called there, yourself?

Mr. SAUL. I called on the phone.

Mr. KENNEDY. You called on the phone and you spoke to the serviceman!

Mr. Saul. The serviceman was there at the time. Mr. KENNEDY. That is the one you had sent over? Mr. SAUL. Yes. Mr. KENNEDY. Would you relate to the committee what happened after that?

Mr. Saul. Well, the serviceman said it wasn't an actual service call, that somebody had deliberately broken the glass of the jukebox, thinking that I would be there to service the machine. They wanted to see me. So he said the party that did it or said he had done it was in the store at the time.

He put him on the telephone to speak to me. He said he wanted to see me. I asked who I was talking to, and he wouldn't give me his name. So I said, “Well, I don't know who you are. I certainly am not going to come down and see you."

At that time he gave the excuse that he was the brother of the owner of the luncheonette, and that if I didn't come down, he would smash the machine and see that it was thrown out into the street. So I made an appointment to see him that evening. I came at the appointed time and when I got to the location there was somebody waiting in a car in front of the location for me, and beckoned to me to come to the car. I went to the car and he asked me to sit down. He asked me if I was Sid, and whether I owned the machine in that location. I said I did.

The CHAIRMAN. Is this the same place where the machine was broken that morning!

Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And the same place where you had sent your serviceman ?

Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. The same location from which you got the call from the man at the time you made the appointment!

Mr. Saul. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Mr. SAUL. He said he wanted to take me someplace and talk to somebody. I didn't want to leave my car at that location at that time and come back there, so I suggested that I follow him in my car. He said, “No, if you don't want to leave your car here, I will go in your car and tell you where to go.”

So he got into my car and started directing me where we were headed for. During the trip he asked me how I got the location. At that time, I believe the location-I may have been operating a machine at that location about 21/2 years.

The CHAIRMAN. You had had that location for 21/2 years at the time this incident occurred ?

Mr. SAUL. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. And this man was asking you how did you get the location!

Mr. SAUL. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Mr. Saul. I told him how I came to that location. He went on to
say that the location belonged to him.
The CHAIRMAN. It belonged to him?
Mr. SAUL. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. That is, you had had it 212 years and he had made no claim to it prior to that?

Mr. Saul. That is right. Then his conversation went off the regular path, and he kept threatening me all the way down to where we were going

The CHAIRMAN. Threatening you how?

Mr. Saul. That he woud kill me. And they would find my body lying off the Belt Parkway,

The CHAIRMAN. What did he want? What was he wanting?

Mr. SAUL. He didn't make sense in his conversation as to what he actually wanted. I was trying to read between the lines and pacify him.

Mr. KENNEDY. What is the Belt Parkway?

Mr. Saul. Well, that is a parkway used for the purpose of automobile transportation along the shore end of Brooklyn, and very seldom used for pedestrian walk at all.

Mr. KENNEDY. He told you at that time they would find your body there?

Mr. SAUL. Yes, he did. Mr. KENNEDY. Did he relate this a number of different times? Mr. Saul. Well, he repeated that about five or six times. Mr. KENNEDY. That he was going to kill you ? Mr. SAUL. Yes. Mr. KENNEDY. Do you know who he is! Mr. SAUL. Yes. Mr. KENNEDY. What is his name? Mr. Saul. I didn't know his name at the time, but I know now that his name is Ernest Filocomo.

The CHAIRMAN. Would you recognize a picture of him?

I hand you a picture and ask you to state if you identify the person in the picture.

(The photograph was handed to the witness.)
Mr. SAUL. Yes; that is the man.
The CHAIRMAN. That is the fellow you have been talking about?
Mr. SAUL. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. That you met there and had the appointment with and who drove you around and threatened to kill you?

Mr. SAUL. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. That picture may be made exhibit No. 29.

(Photograph referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 29" for reference and may be found in the files of the select committee.)

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Filocomo is known as Ernest Kippy.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know him by that name, by the name of Kippy!

Mr. Saul. Well, when I asked his name he said his name was Kip.

Mr. KENNEDY. He has seven arrests and five convictions. He has been convicted for unlawful entry, convicted for burglary.

The CHAIRMAN. Do we have a police record ?
Mr. KENNEDY. Yes. And disorderly conduct.

The CHAIRMAN. Who obtained it? Let it be sworn to and placed in the record.

Have you been previously sworn in this proceeding!
Mr. CORRIGAN. Yes, sir.

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH CORRIGAN-Resumed

The CHAIRMAN. Do you have the police record of this man?

Mr. CORRIGAN. Yes, sir. This is a New York City Police Department record of one Ernest Filocomo, alias Ernie Kippy. The record shows

The CHAIRMAN. You procured it from the police department !

Mr. CORRIGAN. I did, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. That may be made exhibit No. 29A.
Mr. KENNEDY. I would just like to get it summarized.

The CHAIRMAN. You can summarize it. It has been made an exhibit.

(Document referred to marked "Exhibit No. 29A" for reference and may be found in the files of the select committee.)

Mr. CORRIGAN. The record shows some seven arrests with five convictions. The convictions are for unlawful entry, for burglary, disorderly conduct, assault, and for policy.

Mr. KENNEDY. And he spent some time in Sing Sing for the assault, did he?

Mr. CORRIGAN. That is correct, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. Sentenced in 1944 for 4 to 5 years in Sing Sing. Is that correct?

Mr. CORRIGAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. KENNEDY. Where did Mr. Filocomo direct you to drive!

Mr. Saul. We finally ended up in a luncheonette n Church Avenue near McDonald Avenue in Brooklyn, called Jackie's.

Mr. KENNEDY. Jackie's ?
Mr. SAUL. Yes.
Mr. KENNEDY. Do you know who owned Jackie's restaurant!
Mr. Saul. No, I didn't know who owned it.
Mr. KENNEDY. Relate what happened.

Mr. SAUL. Well, we went into Jackie's restaurant and he introduced me to a man called Larry Gallo.

Mr. KENNEDY. G-a-1-1-o?
Mr. SAUL. Yes.
Mr. KENNEDY. Did you know who Larry Gallo was?
Mr. SAUL. No. I never met him before.

And Mr. Gallo invited me to sit down and have a cup of coffee with him. Filocomo sat down next to us. Mr. Gallo asked me how I got that location. I told him the same story. He said that the location had belonged to him. I told him that I didn't know anything about it and that I had come about the location in an honest manner, that we had purchased the location from the owner of the luncheonette. We had a contract with him and there weren't any problems at all.

Then Mr. Gallo asked me how many machines I had. I told him I had eight machines.

The CHAIRMAN. You only had eight at that time?
Mr. Saul. Yes. That is what I told Mr. Gallo.
The CHAIRMAN. That is what you told him?
Mr. SAUL. That is what I told him.

Mr. Gallo suggested that he had the same amount of machines that I had, that we become partners, and that I would operate the route. I told Mr. Gallo that I had a very bad taste about the business, I didn't care for it, and was anxious to get out of it. I had been in it more or less to pay off some debts because of a previous business loss, and that I was trying to straighten myself out and get out of that business.

Mr. Gallo said that if I were to become partners with him that he would have nothing to do with it, that I would operate the business myself, and that he would get me locations.

Mr. KENNEDY. Did he say how he was going to get locations?

« 이전계속 »