Mr. SHERRY. I did.

Mr. KENNEDY. As you say, looking back on it now, you feel it was an improper way to handle the labor-management relations?

Mr. SHERRY. Improper.

Mr. KENNEDY. The local actually stopped selling labels in about February of 1952 because the Los Angeles Central Labor Council brought pressure to bear and refused to recognize the picket line; is that right?

Mr. SHERRY. Right, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. There are situations I want to discuss with you. There were attempts, were there not, of hoodlums and gangsters to take over this union?

Mr. SHERRY. Yes, sir.

(At this point Senator Mundt left the hearing room.)

Mr. KENNEDY. I would like to discuss some of those.

You had some relationship with a man by the name of Sugar Joe Peskin?

Mr. SHERRY. Yes, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, we are going to be discussing some people now. Their names appear on this mimeographed sheet, which might be of help and assistance to the committee in following the hearing.

The CHAIRMAN. I believe these have already been distributed to the press.

Mr. KENNEDY. Can we have it made an exhibit?

The CHAIRMAN. It will be exhibit No. 64 for reference.

(List referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 64" for reference, and may be found in the files of the select committee.)

The CHAIRMAN. I understand that the fact that a person's name is on here does not mean that there is something derogatory to be testified to about him, but it is simply an aid in identifying him if his name is mentioned.

Mr. KENNEDY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Mr. KENNEDY. I would like to discuss with you the four incidents in connection with gangsters and hoodlums to take over this industry through your union. One of the first was an effort made by Sugar Joe Peskin; is that right?

Mr. SHERRY. Yes, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. Did you know who he was?

Mr. SHERRY. Not at the time; I did later.

Mr. KENNEDY. Tell us what contacts you had with him?

Mr. SHERRY. Well, shortly after the local union was granted the charter-when I say "shortly," Mr. Kennedy, I am not sure whether it was 2, 3, 5, or 6 months-but along about that period a man came to us and introduced himself as Joe Peskin, that he was from Chicago. He represented AMI or had AMI machines-that is a better way to put it. He wanted to join the union.

He stated he was going to operate in the Los Angeles metropolitan area to begin with, and then spread out. We were to take him into the union, and each one of our union members were to pledge to buy so many AMI's per month. We didn't take him in. At least, I told him

36751-59-pt. 48-5

The CHAIRMAN. What is AMI?

Mr. SHERRY. That is a music machine, a coin-operated jukebox. That is one of the manufacturers.

Mr. KENNEDY. Did he attempt to put pressure on you at that time? Mr. SHERRY. Yes, sir. Mr. Kennedy, there were two separate little meetings with Joe Peskin. He came in first of all to me and made his proposition, and we turned it down. At least I turned it down. So he insisted upon meeting with the executive board. A meeting was set up. He came in to the executive board. He stayed about 8

minutes.

Once again he gave them an ultimatum that they would buy these machines, and the ultimatum was that if they didn't, and if we didn't permit him to join the union, he would really create havoc in our territory, what we considered our territory.

Mr. KENNEDY. Did you find out then anything about Sugar Joe Peskin?

Mr. SHERRY. Yes. The executive board members then told me who he was, that he had been in Chicago.

Mr. KENNEDY. May I just give a little of his background, Mr. Chairman?

The CHAIRMAN. Who did they tell you he was, first?

Mr. SHERRY. They told me he was the man that furnished the sugar to Capone during the prohibition era.

Mr. KENNEDY. That is how he got the name Sugar Joe.
Mr. SHERRY. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. In 1923 he was arrested, convicted and sentenced to 20 days in jail for the possession and sale of liquors. In February 1931 he was charged with violation of the National Prohibition Act.

On February 16, 1933, he was indicted for possessing and manufacturing intoxicating liquors. Dispositions of both of these cases are unknown. During prohibition he was a wholesale grocer doing business as the J. P. Food Distributors, Inc., of Chicago. He sold over $1 million worth of corn sugar to the alcohol stills belonging to the Al Capone mob. It was from this activity that he gained the name of Sugar Joe.

He later owned the Universal Automatic Music Co., a jukebox operator, and became a power in the Illinois Phonograph Owners Association, which acted in collusion with Local 134 of the IBEW, which we developed during the course of the hearings that we have held earlier.

In 1941 he was arrested in connection with the beating of a former employee who attempted to start his own business. It was a jukebox business. This employee tried to start his own jukebox business. Peskin stated to the court at that time, "Judge, if I did, I'd tell you. This thing is bum publicity for me and no good for the industry. These men worked for me and did take some jukebox spots away from me. This is not allowed by the union, and with the union's help I have gotten all but 5 of the 50 spots they took," indicating the situation as far back as the early 1940's.

In the summer of 1948 accompanied by Greasy Thumb Guzik's son-in-law, Frank Barnett, Peskin went to Los Angeles. On August 1, 1948, he formed the J. Peskin Distributing Co. at 2663-67 West Pico Boulevard, franchised distributor for the AMI jukeboxes in California and Nevada.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you know about that?

Mr. SHERRY. I knew his address was up on Pico. I didn't know exactly where it was.

The CHAIRMAN. You knew he formed that company, did you? Mr. SHERRY. No, I didn't know any particular company, Senator. The CHAIRMAN. But you knew he was representing this distributing agency?

Mr. SHERRY. Yes, sir, I knew he was representing them, because he insisted we take AMI's, so he must have been representing them.

Mr. KENNEDY. Once again, Mr. Chairman, it shows the big companies using people with these criminal backgrounds in order to get their machines distributed.

What was the final disposition of that? When you wouldn't let him in there, he tied up with the Teamsters Union?

Mr. SHERRY. Yes, sir. You see, he appeared with a man by the name of Jaffe at the Board.

Mr. KENNEDY. What is Jaffe's first name?

Mr. SHERRY. I don't know.

Mr. KENNEDY. J-a-f-f-e, a former strongarm man for the Chicago Tavern Association, Mr. Chairman, who also came out of Chicago, and who has a police record.

Mr. SHERRY. At any rate, we turned him down. We didn't accept him. So he went over and joined the Teamsters. When he joined the Teamsters, they began to raid all of the IBEW locations, so we put pickets on the Teamsters building.

Mr. KENNEDY. What Teamster union was that?

Mr. SHERRY. 396 of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, run by Frank Matula, Jr. He was in the Teamster building with all the other Teamster locals, and we placed pickets on their building and kept them there for 9 months.

Mr. KENNEDY. How did that picketing go? Was that successful? Mr. SHERRY. No, sir. We ran out of money.

Mr. KENNEDY. How did it go at the beginning? What kind of pickets did you have?

Mr. SHERRY. We put 21 men on.

Mr. KENNEDY. This is when you were picketing the Teamsters headquarters?

Mr. SHERRY. The Teamsters headquarters. We put 21 men on the first day. The next day the Teamsters put an equal number in behind each one of our pickets with spikes in their shoes. They ripped our men's legs and sent most of them to the hospital. So we replaced those in a short time with girls. We put a lot of girls on. Then they dated the girls on and took them out to lunch until finally we ended up with ladies 55 to 60. We kept them on and they didn't bother them. They didn't take them to lunch.

Mr. KENNEDY. So that was successful?

Mr. SHERRY. No, it was not.

Mr. KENNEDY. At least you were able to keep your pickets on the picket line.

Mr. SHERRY. Yes, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. And that went on for some 9 months?

Mr. SHERRY. Nine months, yes, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. Then you ran out of money?

Mr. SHERRY. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. So local 396 then took over?

Mr. SHERRY. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, we have already had testimony regarding the activities of Mr. Frank Matula, Mr. Matula being the one who controlled the cartage industry in the Los Angeles area on behalf of certain selected cartage companies.

He was the one who had made this arrangement with Peskin back in 1948 in connection with the juke boxes.

Mr. SHERRY. That is right; yes, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY How long did Peskin stay out there, or remain in California?

Mr. SHERRY. I don't know, Mr. Kennedy, sincerely how long he did stay. We had plenty of troubles of our own in the union and we weren't watching Peskin.

Mr. KENNEDY. Was there any other attempt to take over your union?

Mr. SHERRY. Yes. There was an attempt one time when six men walked into the union office, and pulled a .45, and told me that Mickey Cohen had said that he was taking over, I was to step out of the union. Mr. KENNEDY. What did you say?

Mr. SHERRY. Well, I was sick, so it didn't matter much one way or another to me. So I told him to use the gun. But they didn't. I didn't hear any more about them.

Mr. KENNEDY. They just walked in and said that?

Mr. SHERRY. That is right, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. And you said you refused to give up your position, to go ahead and shoot you?

Mr. SHERRY. That is right, I did, Mr. Kennedy. But it is also equally true that many times when things are done in Los Angeles, if someone wants to impress you, they will say it is from Mickey Cohen, whether it is or not.

Mr. KENNEDY. You don't know personally?

Mr. SHERRY. No, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. You had no direct connection with Mr. Mickey Cohen yourself?

Mr. SHERRY. No, sir, I did not. I didn't meet him until yesterday in the corridor here.

Mr. KENNEDY. Was his name used at another time?

Mr. SHERRY. Yes, his name was used at another time. We had several cases in court against the Teamsters. Once again it was money troubles. We couldn't maintain an attorney. So a Jack Fox contacted me, and would arrange for us to get a good attorney, a fellow by the name of Glen Lane, attorney in Los Angeles.

Mr. KENNEDY. Jack Fox also came out of Chicago, did he not? Mr. SHERRY. Yes, he told me he came from Chicago.

Mr. KENNEDY. Had you understood, or did you learn later, that he was a member of the syndicate in Chicago?

Mr. SHERRY. I don't know about a syndicate part, but he told us that he was connected with the delicatessen people in Chicago.

Mr. KENNEDY. I am talking about the underworld figures in Chicago. Did he tell you or indicate to you that he had been connected with some of the people who were remnants of the Al Capone group? Mr. SHERRY. Not only to me, but he made the statement to the entire membership, to impress them.

Mr. KENNEDY. That he had these contacts and connections?
Mr. SHERRY. Yes.

Mr. KENNEDY. What did he tell you specifically about the delicatessen?

Mr. SHERRY. That he could show us how to organize it the way they did the delicatessen people there, a pipe wrapped in a newspaper. Mr. KENNEDY. That is the way they operated in Chicago!

Mr. SHERRY. Evidently. That statement was made publicly to the membership.

Mr. KENNEDY. And he said that he could employ the same methods for organizing for you in the Los Angeles area? Mr. SHERRY. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. What was your answer to that?

Mr. SHERRY. Well, we didn't go for the organizing, but he brought a man by the name of Larry DiCaro. It was a package deal to us. Larry DiCaro was to go out and organize for us, bring us in members, and at the same time he would get us Glen Lane to fight the Teamsters in court.

Mr. KENNEDY. He would get who?

Mr. SHERRY. Glen Lane.

Mr. KENNEDY. Who is Glen Lane?

Mr. SHERRY. Glen Lane is an attorney in Los Angeles. He was taking our cases into court. We had three or four of them there. It wound up with Jack Fox staying in the office there for 2 or 3 weeks, and it finally wound up in this way: That Mr. Lane, supposedly, had made the statement, and that had come supposedly from Mickey Cohen at a pool conference, a swimming pool conference.

Mr. KENNEDY. You are going to have to explain that a little bit.
When Fox came in, and offered this sort of package deal, he was
going to give you Larry DiCaro and put him on the payroll?
Mr. SHERRY. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. And Larry DiCaro was put on the payroll?
Mr. SHERRY. He was.

Mr. KENNEDY. He had a number of underworld connections, did he not?

Mr. SHERRY. Yes.

Mr. KENNEDY. In fact, he was an associate of Sica?

Mr. SHERRY. That we didn't know, sir, and I didn't know it until this minute.

Mr. KENNEDY. The package deal was Larry DiCaro going on the payroll. Then you had this lawyer who was going to be able to arrange for you to win these cases; is that right?

Mr. SHERRY. Yes.

Mr. KENNEDY. And in back of this whole arrangement was supposed to have been Mickey Cohen?

Mr. SHERRY. It was supposed to have been made by Mickey Cohen at a poolside conference.

Mr. KENNEDY. Who related to you that this decision had been made?

Mr. SHERRY. Jack Fox.

Mr. KENNEDY. He said that he had the backing of Mickey Cohen, that they had arranged this, Mickey Cohen and himself at this conference, and this was what was going to happen?