Mr. NORMAN. No, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. Then in November of 1954, the association members voted by secret ballot to relieve Randazzo of his $100 per week job that he had held for just a few months; is that right?

Mr. NORMAN. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. The next day a group of the association members pulled out of the association and formed a new association called the Automatic Music Guild; is that right?

Mr. NORMAN. That is correct.

Mr. KENNEDY. And they hired Randazzo as a public relations man? Mr. NORMAN. That is correct.

Mr. KENNEDY. Some of those that pulled out were Mangone and Blatt, Petrocine, X. Y. Zevely, Dave Friedman, Sam Marino; is that right?

Mr. NORMAN. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. In the beginning of 1955, Mr. Karpf appeared in the picture; is that right.

Mr. NORMAN. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. Mura went out of the picture and Mr. Karpf started to go around with Mr. Randazzo?

Mr. NORMAN. That is correct.

Mr. KENNEDY. And started to organize the employees; is that right? Mr. NORMAN. That is correct.

Mr. KENNEDY. And the pressure was started to be put on all the employers to join up and become a member of this association, and make this arrangement with Mr. Randazzo and make the arrangement with Mr. Karpf?

Mr. NORMAN. Well, I have no actual knowledge of that. I have heard it from various sources, but I actually don't know.

Mr. KENNEDY. Did Mr. Randazzo come to speak to you again? Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir; he did.

Mr. KENNEDY. Did he tell you what a mistake you were making by not joining up with the association?

Mr. NORMAN. He told me that conditions would improve if we were to join the association.

Mr. KENNEDY. Then in the latter part of March 1955, a meeting was called of both the old and the new associations, and they joined together, amalgamated; is that right?

Mr. NORMAN. That is correct.

Mr. KENNEDY. And it was further decided then that they would recognize Charlie Karpf's union, which was the Bedding Workers Local of the Upholsterers International Union?

Mr. NORMAN. Well, I heard that from various sources, but I didn't actually have knowledge of it.

Mr. KENNEDY. Do you know how they came to call it the Bedding Workers local of the Upholsterers Union? Do you know what the Bedding Local would have to do with the coin machine business? Mr. NORMAN. No. I thought it was amusing at the time.

Mr. KENNEDY. Randazzo came to see you accompanied by Charles Karpf and asked you to sign with the union?

Mr. NORMAN. That is correct.

Mr. KENNEDY. This was Randazzo that came to see you, and Karpf, and told you that you should join the union?

36751-59-pt. 48-10

Mr. Norman. Well, he asked me about if I had considered joining the association.

(At this point Senator Mundt left the hearing room.)

Mr. KENNEDY. You told them you would have nothing to do with them?

Mr. NORMAN. I told them again that I would have nothing to do with it, and again referred them to Mr. Rood, because I didn't have the authority.

Mr. KENNEDY. Did they also urge you, Mr. Karpf, and Mr. Randazzo, to join the union, or was it just the association?

Mr. NORMAN. Just the association.

Mr. KENNEDY. Do you know why Mr. Karpf, who was a union official, would be coming to you to urge you to join the association? Mr. NORMAN. No, sir; I have no idea.

Mr. KENNEDY. Several days later, on April 13, 1955, your place of business was stink-bombed?

Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. Would you tell the committee what happened? Mr. NORMAN. Well, I don't actually know what happened, except that Monday morning when I came to the office and opened the door, I had to close it and go right out again. We have 8,000 square feet of space. I called the police and they came in and investigated the matter and asked me if I had any idea who did it. I told them I had no idea. They asked me a number of questions. I told them that we had had some difficulty with the associations and so on, and perhaps

Mr. KENNEDY. Do you believe that your place was stink-bombed because of your opposition to the association and the union?

Mr. NORMAN. Sir, I have no way of telling if that was the cause. It just seemed peculiar to me.

Mr. KENNEDY. I am asking what you believe. I know that nobody was apprehended, nobody was arrested and convicted. Do you believe that that was the reason your place was stink-bombed?

Mr. NORMAN. I believe that. I can think of no other reason for it. Mr. KENNEDY. Do you remember writing a letter to Mr. John Haddock, who was the president of AMI, Inc., on April 19, 1955? Mr. NORMAN. I wrote to Mr. John Haddock.

Mr. KENNEDY. In which you stated:

I know you fully realize what a grave situation we are in. In my opinion, this was only a warning, and I think we may look forward to other things to come, along the same line. The preliminary gesture in the way of a stink bomb only tended to make me realize that if we agreed to go along with this hoodlum organization it would place us in the position of being forced to accept any terms they might dictate from then on.

Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. That is the way you felt at the time?

Mr. NORMAN. Definitely.

Mr. KENNEDY. That was to the president of the AMI?

Mr. NORMAN. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. Whose machines were you handling?

Mr. NORMAN. We are State distributors for the AMI music machine. Mr. KENNEDY (reading).

I know for a definite fact that it is the ultimate object of the parties involved to eventually attain the point where they can bargain with the distributors, by

exercising the control which they expect to have over the operators and their employees, by using their usual strong-arm methods.

In this particular case they are merely resorting to the labor organization method as a subterfuge for their nefarious activities.

Mr. NORMAN. That is the way I felt about it, and wrote Mr. Haddock, who was very much interested in the situation.

Mr. KENNEDY. That was the situation at that time?

Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. Then there was a great deal of havoc amongst the industry, and normal sales fell off?

Mr. NORMAN. Yes. We were doing very little in the way of sales. Mr. KENNEDY. You also wrote in the letter that:

Normal sales are entirely out of the picture. Under present conditions we would have to rely on the dictatorship to advise their followers if, when, and how many machines to buy, and from whom.

This was an attempt, was it not, to gain complete control of the industry in the Miami area?

Mr. NORMAN. That was my opinion.

Mr. KENNEDY. And they were using the union as a method of enforcing their will; is that right?

Mr. NORMAN. That is right.

Mr. KENNEDY. It was this collusive arrangement between certain employers and the union, and the union was dominated and controlled by gangsters and racketeers at that time?

Mr. NORMAN. Well, that was the general picture.

Mr. KENNEDY. You have not been able to get rid of the stench completely from your place of business?

Mr. NORMAN. No, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. I don't like to place in the record that your place still smells

Mr. NORMAN. It does on damp days.

The CHAIRMAN. How long ago did this occur?

Mr. NORMAN. Approximately 4 years ago, to the best of my knowledge.

Mr. KENNEDY. Subsequently, were you approached and was it suggested to you that there could be a mediator who could arrange peace in the industry.

Mr. NORMAN. No, sir, I was not approached. My employer came down from Orlando. A meeting had been arranged. I was invited to come along. The preliminary things were already arranged, and I merely went along with my employer.

Mr. KENNEDY. So there was a meeting held, was there not?

Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. And the mediator, the man who was going to this was Mr. Karpf's setup, he set up the meeting, is that right, or Mr. Karpf was present?

Mr. NORMAN. Mr. Karpf was present; yes.

Mr. KENNEDY. And he had as a mediator a man by the name of

Joe Scootch; is that right?

Mr. NORMAN. Well, I don't know who introduced Mr. Scootch.
Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Scootch was introduced as a mediator?

Mr. NORMAN. He was; yes.

Mr. KENNEDY. Who was Joe Scootch? Did you know anything about him?

Mr. NORMAN. I didn't know anything about him until afterward. I had never heard of him. I didn't know who he was.

Mr. KENNEDY. Did you know he was also known as Joe Indellicato? Mr. NORMAN. I had no knowledge until later on. I didn't know who he was or what he represented.

Mr. KENNEDY. And he had been arrested some four times and has three convictions. Is that right?

Mr. NORMAN. I know nothing whatsoever about the man.

Mr. KENNEDY. The last conviction coming in 1932 for assault and robbery, where he received a sentence of 10 to 20 years in the State prison in New York.

Why would a man with that background be selected as a mediator in the industry?

Mr. NORMAN. Sir, I frankly do not know. That was the only time I ever saw the man. He left there. I read something about him later on, and I have never heard anything about him since.

Mr. KENNEDY. Why were there so many people with criminal records who were involved in this activity? Do you know?

Mr. NORMAN. No, sir; I don't.

Mr. KENNEDY. The meeting was broken up by reporters finding out about it?

Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. And everybody ran?

Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. The reporters brought photographers with them, did they?

Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. So it broke the meeting up?

Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. KENNEDY. Then in June 1955 you wrote another letter to Haddock:

In spite of all this unfavorable publicity, it seems that although the association is disposing of Karpf and his union they insist upon retaining Randazzo; although Rood and I offered strenuous objections to their policy, the association apparently insists upon pursuing the same course.

It would seem to me that under the circumstances, all of the parties concerned should be grateful for the opportunity which is offered at this time to break away from the stranglehold which they as well as we have been confronted with. So you continued to resist the organizing efforts of Karpf; is that right?

Mr. NORMAN. We definitely continued to resist the efforts.

Mr. KENNEDY. Were your employees at the time you terminated your relationship with the company members of any union?

Mr. NORMAN. No, sir. We had nothing whatsoever to do with any union or association.

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, I quoted from several letters. Could we have those identified?

The CHAIRMAN. I hand you three letters, photostatic copies of letters, one dated April 19, 1955; another April 27, 1955; and a third of June 6, 1955, all three of them addressed to Mr. J. W. Haddock, Grand Rapids, Mich. They all appear to be signed by R. J. Morgan, who I believe is the witness.

Will you please examine these letters, these photostatic copies, and state if you identify them as such?

(The documents were handed to the witness.)

Mr. NORMAN. Those are letters that I wrote to Mr. Haddock.

The CHAIRMAN. They may be made exhibit 69-A, 69-B and 69-C, in the order of their dates.

(Letters referred to were marked "Exhibits 69-A, 69-B, and 69-C” for reference and may be found in the files of the select committee.) Mr. KENNEDY. That is all, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any further questions of this witness? If not, thank you very much.

Call the next witness.

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Blatt.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Blatt, come forward, please. Be sworn.

You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give before this Senate select committee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. BLATT. I do.

TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM BLATT

The CHAIRMAN. State your name, your place of residence, and your business, please, sir.

Mr. BLATT. My name is William Blatt. I live at 654 North Shore Drive, Miami Beach. My business is jukeboxes and cigarette machines. The CHAIRMAN. Jukeboxes and what?

Mr. BLATT. Cigarette machines.

The CHAIRMAN. You waive counsel ?
Mr. BLATT. I do.

The CHAIRMAN. All right, Mr. Kennedy.

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, Mr. May will question the witness. The CHAIRMAN. Very well.

Mr. MAY. Mr. Blatt, how long have you been in the coin operated machine business?

Mr. BLATT. About 30 years.

Mr. MAY. What is the name of your company at the present time? Mr. BLATT. Music Makers.

Mr. MAY. How many employees do you have, Mr. Blatt?

Mr. BLATT. Six.

Mr. MAY. Have you been a member of various associations while in Miami?

Mr. BLATT. Yes.

Mr. MAY. Would you list them for us?

ciations with which you have been connected?

Would you list the asso

Mr. BLATT. Well, I can only tell you the last group. The others I couldn't remember.

Mr. MAY. Are you presently associated with an association?

Mr. BLATT. No. I am a member of it.

Mr. MAY. What association is that?

Mr. BLATT. The AMOA.

Mr. MAY. What is the full name of that?

Mr. BLATT. I think it is the Amalgamated Machine Operators Association.

Mr. MAY. Amalgamated Music Operators Association?

Mr. BLATT. Or machine operators. I am not sure.

Mr. MAY. Were you a director of that at one time?

Mr. BLATT. Yes.