Mr. NAFZIGER. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. 27,500,000? Mr. NAFZIGER. Yes. Senator CURTIS. Over how long a period of time? Mr. ADLERMAN. No further questions. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. Stand aside. Senator CURTIS. I would like to ask one more question: Did your investigation reveal to whom they were delivered? Mr. NAFZIGER. We found some of the customers; yes, sir. Senator CURTIS. Were they in the Chicago area? Mr. NAFZIGER. Some were. They have an over-the-counter sale, and then they have a mailing list group. I assume the over-thecounter sales were to those in Chicago. Senator CURTIS. Those sent through the mails, were they sent outside the State of Illinois? Mr. NAFZIGER. Yes. Senator CURTIS. You examined these tickets? Mr. NAFZIGER. Yes, I did. Senator CURTIS. Do they have any value other than bookmaking? Mr. NAFZIGER. I wouldn't know, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Very good. Anything further? Mr. ADLERMAN. Did you examine the records of the Lawton Printing Co. also? Mr. NAFZIGER. Yes, I did. Mr. ADLERMAN. They have no relationship to the Kelly empire or the Kelly group at all? Mr. NAFZIGER. No; they do not. Mr. ADLERMAN. Have you determined how many betting tickets they manufactured and sold and will you describe what period you are covering? Mr. NAFZIGER. I am covering the same period as before, 1960, and the first 7 months of 1961. They sold a total of 20,750,000. Mr. ADLERMAN. I didn't quite hear you. Mr. NAFZIGER. The Lawton Co. sold 20,750,000 betting tickets. Mr. NAFZIGER. Yes, sir. Mr. ADLERMAN. Betting tickets? Mr. NAFZIGER. Yes, sir. Mr. ADLERMAN. How much did you say they were sold for? They sold 27,500,000 by the Illinois printing? Mr. NAFZIGER. Bentley-Murray. Mr. ADLERMAN. Altogether making a total of about 47 million tickets in that period just manufactured and sold by those 2 companies? Mr. NAFZIGER. Yes, sir. Mr. ADLERMAN. One of which is not controlled or in any way connected with the Kelly company? Mr. NAFZIGER. That is correct. Mr. ADLERMAN. No further questions. The CHAIRMAN. Anything further, Senator? Senator CURTIS. No. The CHAIRMAN. Very well. You may stand aside. Call the next witness. Mr. ADLERMAN. Mr. William P. Brown. The CHAIRMAN. You do solemnly swear that the evidence you are about to give the subcommittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. BROWN. I do. TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM P. BROWN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, BERNARD J. MELLMAN The CHAIRMAN. State your name, your place of residence, and your business or occupation, please, sir. Mr. BROWN. William P. Brown. I live at 8420 Winzenburg Drive, Richmond Heights, Mo. The CHAIRMAN. Do you have any business or occupation to speak of? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds my answer may incriminate me. The CHAIRMAN. You do not have one to speak of? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds my answer may incriminate me. The CHAIRMAN. You have counsel? Mr. BROWN. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Counsel, identify yourself. Mr. MELLMAN. I am Bernard J. Mellman, 408 Olive Street, St. Louis, Mo. Mr. ADLERMAN. Mr. Brown, do you operate a racetrack wire service in St. Louis? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground my answer may incriminate me. Mr. ADLERMAN. Your father was named Beverly Brown? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground my answer may incriminate me. Mr. ADLERMAN. Did he run a race wire service under the name of Pioneer News? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds it may incriminate me. Mr. ADLERMAN. Did your father run into difficulties on running the race wire news, and was his telephone wire removed back in 1947? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground my answer may incriminate me. Mr. ADLERMAN. Did he then operate another racetrack news service under the name of B. & F. Sales Co. in Fairmount City, Ill., near East St. Louis? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds my answer may incriminate me. Mr. ADLERMAN. Did you take over the operation from your father upon his death in 1949?` Mr. BROWN. I respectfully refuse-decline to answer on the ground my answer may incriminate me. Mr. ADLERMAN. Will you tell us how many telephones you use? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground that my answer may incriminate me. Mr. ADLERMAN. Will you sults from? tell us where you received your race re Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground my answer may incriminate me. Mr. ADLERMAN. When you discussed this with our investigator, did you disclose to him the fact that you received information through a source from a newspaper or publication? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground my answer may incriminate me. Mr. ADLERMAN. Will you tell us what newspaper or publication you got it from? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground my answer may incriminate me. Mr. ADLERMAN. As far as I know there are only three newspapers in that area, St. Louis Globe-Democrat, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, and the East St. Louis Journal. Did you receive it from any of those papers? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground my answer may incriminate me. Mr. ADLERMAN. Did you pay any employee from any of the papers to sneak out the information to you? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground my answer may incriminate me. Mr. ADLERMAN. How many customers do you have? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground my answer may incriminate me. Mr. ADLERMAN. Did you advise the committee investigator that you had 12 bookmakers on your list who were paying you $50 to $75 a week for the service? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground my answer may incriminate me. The CHAIRMAN. You do solemnly swear that the evidence you are about to give before this Senate subcommittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. LANGENBACHER. I do. TESTIMONY OF IRWIN LANGENBACHER The CHAIRMAN. Be seated. State your name, place of residence, and business or occupation or employment. Mr. LANGENBACHER. Irwin Langenbacher. I live in suburban Washington. I am assistant counsel of this committee. The CHAIRMAN. Do you know this witness over here, Brown, who is testifying? Mr. LANGENBACHER. I do, sir. His name is Brown. The CHAIRMAN. Have you interviewed him? Mr. LANGENBACHER. I did, sir, on August 8. The CHAIRMAN. He seems to not want to answer questions today. Did you talk to him then? Did he answer questions and give you information? Mr. LANGENBACHER. He gave me some information. There was some information he refused to give. The CHAIRMAN. What information did he give you when you talked to him? Mr. LANGENBACHER. He told me that Pioneer News, a race wire service, was founded by his father together with one Clarence Owens, and they operated in the city of St. Louis in the Fullerton Building. He said about 1947 upon action by the circuit attorney of St. Louis the telephones were removed, and Pioneer News lost a suit attempting to forestall their removal. He said his father then went over into the Illinois suburbs of St. Louis, Mo., and about 1948 set up a race wire service in partnership with Gordon Foster. This was known as the B. & F. Sales Co. of Fairmount City near East St. Louis, Ill. He stated his father died in 1949, and he took over the operation and carried it on with Foster until about 1953. He stated then it went out of business as an open operation, but it never died out entirely in that he carried it on more or less regularly as an undercover operation, and that he still has the race wire service in operation at this time. He said he had 12 customers, bookmakers, 10 of whom operated in the Greater St. Louis area on both sides of the river in Missouri and Illinois. The CHAIRMAN. Those are bookies that got his service? Mr. LANGENBACHER. Yes, sir. The other two he said are some distance removed, and they are in outstate Illinois. He said he received his information from a publication. I asked him if the publication was a newspaper. He said, "Let us just say that it is a publication." So I made inquiry as to what publications receive the race results and was told by three persons who should know. They said they believe only the two major St. Louis dailies receive the information openly by wire service. That is by news wire service. I asked him what he paid for this information and he said, "very little," but he would not tell me the amount. I had heard from another source that he received or had received $50 from each of the bookmakers as his fee-$50 a week-and he had recently increased this to $75 a week. The CHAIRMAN. From the 12 he received $50 a week? Mr. LANGENBACHER. He had been receiving $50 but had recently increased it up to $75. The CHAIRMAN. That would be $900 a week income from those sources? Mr. LANGENBACHER. That would be $900 at the present time. However, he would not make known to me his charges. That was from another source I heard that. TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM P. BROWN, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, BERNARD J. MELLMAN-Resumed Mr. ADLERMAN. Mr. Brown, who are you employed by? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds that my answer may incriminate me. Mr. ADLERMAN. Are you employed as the manager of the Plaza Amusement Co. ? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds that my answer may incriminate me. Mr. ADLERMAN. Is it a coin-operated machine company? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds that my answer may incriminate me. The CHAIRMAN. Let us stop a moment now and find out. Now, Mr. Brown, you have heard the witness testify regarding his conversation with you and what you told him when he interviewed you some time ago. Is there any misstatement, anything in what he has testified that you said that you wish to correct? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds that my answer may incriminate me. The CHAIRMAN. Do you mean if you corrected some statement in there that might be in error, it might tend to incriminate you? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds that my answer may incriminate me. The CHAIRMAN. Do you want the record to stand as being true? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground my answer may incriminate me. The CHAIRMAN. You mean you are indifferent as to whether that record is true or not, or whether it stays in the record as being the truth? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground my answer may incriminate me. The CHAIRMAN. I take it, then, you don't care one way or the other? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds my answer may incriminate me. The CHAIRMAN. We will let it stand if you have no objection? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds my answer may incriminate me. The CHAIRMAN. Very well. Mr. ADLERMAN. I think I asked you last time whether you were manager of the Plaza Amusement Co., a coin-operated amusement company. Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds my answer may incriminate me. Mr. ADLERMAN. Isn't it a fact that this company is owned by Frank "Buster" Wortman, who has been before the Senate Select Committee, and I think his record is spread out on the record there as one of the leading gangsters in the St. Louis area? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds my answer may incriminate me. Mr. ADLERMAN. Does Mr. Wortman have any interest in your race wire service? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds my answer may incriminate me. Mr. ADLERMAN. You will not tell us who sneaks out the information for you from the newspapers? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the ground my answer may incriminate me. Mr. ADLERMAN. No further questions. The CHAIRMAN. Do you get your information from the newspapers? Mr. BROWN. I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds my answer may incriminate me. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Curtis? 75477-61-pt. 2--14 |