French territory or whether he can be deported to French territory because he was born to Italian citizens.

Senator MUNDT. I though your testimony was that he was born in Sicily?

Mr. KOHN. No; he was born in Tunis, north Africa, of Sicilian parents.

Mr. ADLERMAN. May I just make a comment?

Mr. Kohn, are you familiar with the immigration and deportation laws in any way?

Mr. KонN. Familiar with them, but I am certainly no expert on them.

Mr. ADLERMAN. Isn't it a fact that one of the complications that arises is that you cannot deport a man to a country, no matter if he is deportable or not, unless the country in which he was born is willing to accept him?

Mr. KOHN. That is right.

Mr. ADLERMAN. So there are thousands of people in the United States today who are deportable under orders of deportation that cannot be deported because the country of origin won't accept them, such as Russia or places like that?

Mr. KоHN. That is correct.

Mr. ADLERMAN. This may be a complication in this Marcello case. Mr. KOHN. In this particular instance it is true that Italy at the present time is not authorizing his acceptance because of the question of his real citizenship.

Senator MUNDT. Maybe instead of being a complication, it may be an easy answer to the problem, because I heard the Secretary of State the other day agree with the committee members in the Appropriations Committee, when we were discussing our problems of foreign aid, that we needed to put a few more strings on foreign aid.

Here is a string that we can put on. If we are donating money and giving money away to these foreign countries, and I am sure we are from which these deportable people have come, maybe we can at least say, "If we are going to support you with American money, you have to take back the racketeers you have sent over here."

Would that not be a logical thing to do? We ought to be mean on this thing. We appear to be helpless as a great, big country, pouring out millions of dollars to foreigners, and they say they won't take back the racketeers.

We are not trying. We are kidding the public and ourselves. We are extending excuses and alibis. Certainly if some area refuses to take back its criminals and we are supporting and aiding them with this foreign aid, different branches of Government recognize each other. A lot of them are interrelated these days. Certainly they can work together and say as a quid pro quo for our continuing to give aid, "You are going to have to accept the citizens that come over here illegally and are deported back."

I think we have to give this the old college try. I certainly commend you in that mare's-nest of crime in which you live down there, that you are trying at least as a citizen to do something about it.

This is wonderful. This is one of the most encouraging mornings I have had sitting here as a member of this committee to hear somebody who is trying, trying hard.

Mr. KoнN. Thank you. And I might say that we are gradually getting men to accept the responsibilities of public office who at the same time are accepting the responsibility for their oath of office.

I would like to point out, when we talk about the corruption in Jefferson Parish, that there is today for the first time a parish president, a chief executive

The CHAIRMAN. A what?

Mr. KOHN. A man who is the parish president-that is the chief executive in the government of the parish-who has no law-enforcement authority and has no authority over the law-enforcement branch of government because of the strange things done to the parish charter by the previous sheriff and the State legislature.

But nevertheless, he, for the first time, is a public executive and public authority who is denouncing the racketeers, who is demanding action by the other agencies of government against the men like Marcello and is giving leadership in government to the voice of reform. The CHAIRMAN. Is he an elected official?

Mr. KOHN. Yes, sir. His name is M. Dan Hogan.

Senator MUNDT. Is this a general situation prevailing in a great many parishes, or is Jefferson Parish a notoriously bad example?

Mr. KOHN. It is conspicuously the worst. It is the largest growing suburban parish of the city of New Orleans. However, it is not alone in this characteristic of collusion between the racketeers and public officials. Through south Louisiana we have quite a few such areas. Senator MUNDT. Is there jurisdiction over Jefferson Parish by the municipality of New Orleans?

Mr. KOHN. No, sir. They are two totally separate political entities.

Senator MUNDT. In your testimony, you said Poretto's lawyer publicly announced that the new wire service had started during the previous week with the full knowledge and permission of Mayor Morrison.

You said that arrangements had been made by Sylvestro "Sam" Carollo and Francesco Coppollo through the mayor's father-in-law, according to statements made by him in 1953. That would indicate that Mayor Morrison had some jurisdiction, because this was operating in this area.

You brought in the fact that this was done with his full knowledge and consent.

Mr. KонN. These, at least, were the allegations made by the attorney for Joe Poretto when the police raided both of these establishments after the newspapers disclosed their existence in New Orleans, this in 1946.

Senator MUNDT. You said Poretto's lawyer announced this fact publicly?

Mr. KOHN. Yes, sir; it appeared in the press.

Senator MUNDT. What steps did Mayor Morrison take? Did he do anything to close it up? Did he do anything to sue Poretto's lawyer for libel? Did he do anything to disprove the charges or did he plead guilty by silence?

Mr. KOHN. There was a denial and that was all that happened in that connection. I might mention both of these

Senator MUNDT. No libel suit, no effort to get a retraction?

75477-61-pt. 2-16

Mr. KOHN. No, sir. I might point out, in view of your interest in this, that his father-in-law, Jack Waterman, in 1953, which was some 7 years later

Senator MUNDT. Carollo's father-in-law?

Mr. KOHN. Mayor Morrison's father-in-law, whose name is John Waterman, told me that he felt that the mayor almost had him bumped off, that he had accepted some $25,000 from what he said were these Mafia characters, for the political campaign, in exchange for what he conveyed to them as the agreement that they would be permitted to operate their wire service; that after they were raidedand they were not raided until newspaper disclosure, I will add, and then there was a denial by the mayor that he had given such approval that he, John Waterman, was in one bad spot. He was afraid he was going to get bumped off, and that he had to beg and borrow money until he got $25,000 and paid them back.

Senator MUNDT. In other words, it is the mayor's father-in-law that is John Waterman?

Mr. KOHN. Yes, sir.

Senator MUNDT. And it is he who was involved in these payoffs and in this gambling syndicate?

Mr. KOHN. He was a rather close friend of Francesco Coppollo and Sam Carollo at that time, during the 1946 campaign and the period thereafter.

Senator MUNDT. If it penetrates into the family of the mayor, I can see you are not going to get very good law enforcement in that area, in the city of New Orleans, anymore than you do in Jefferson Parish.

Can you make any recommendations to this committee for changes in the Federal law that we might encourage or initiate in connection with the operation of these deportation orders? You obviously are as frustrated by it as we are.

Mr. KOHN. Yes, sir. Well, as president of the National Association of Citizens' Crime Commissions several years ago, in our annual conference, we prepared a resolution which we sent to the Congress, in which we recommended that there be a reduction in the available appellate procedure in the courts, the appellate procedure in the courts, in these matters, that there be a fixed maximum number of appeals that be set by law rather than to permit the cleverness and the ingenuity of lawyers to defeat our deportation purposes, where such acts are justified.

Senator MUNDT. Would you supply a copy of that recommendation for the record as part of your testimony?

Mr. KOHN. Yes, sir. I do not have a copy with me, but I would be glad to mail it to Mr. Adlerman.

Senator MUNDT. We have one of the best lawyers in the country as chairman of this committee, and it does not do much good for us just to have hearings without coming up with suggestions.

I do feel that in this area of writing better laws on deportation, certainly we can make progress when you have a situation that stinks to high heaven as the one does down there in New Orleans.

Thank you very much.

The CHAIRMAN. I do not know whether I will ever practice law again or not-I may have to some day. They say these positions like I hold and like Senator Mundt holds are not permanent, necessarily,

and I might have to go back to practice some day. If I do, I hope you folks will remember what he said.

Senator MUNDT. Yes, indeed. I meant it very sincerely.

The CHAIRMAN. So much for the facetious. Now we will get back to the serious.

Mr. ADLERMAN. At this point I would like to put Mr. Nulty on. The CHAIRMAN. All right, Mr. Nulty.

Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you shall give before this Senate subcommittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. NULTY. I do.

TESTIMONY OF LEO C. NULTY

The CHAIRMAN. You are a member of the staff of this subcommittee? Mr. NULTY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How long have you been on the committee staff? Mr. NULTY. Nearly 7 years, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you done some research and investigation with this particular hearing?

Mr. NULTY. Yes, sir; I have.

The CHAIRMAN. And from that information you gained, have you prepared a chart giving significant data in respect to matters in which this committee is interested?

Mr. NULTY. I have, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you have such chart before you?

Mr. NULTY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. All right. You may identify the chart. State what it is.

The chart will be made exhibit No. 52. I will make exhibit No. 51 the document that Senator Mundt called for which the witness, Mr. Kohn, said he would supply.

(The documents referred to were marked "Exhibit No. 51" and "Exhibit No. 52" for reference. Exhibit No. 51 may be found in the files of the subcommittee and Exhibit No. 52 will be found facing p. 526.)

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Kohn, you will supply the document for us that Senator Mundt asked for?

Mr. KоHN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. That has been made exhibit 51, and this chart has been made exhibit 52.

You may proceed.

Mr. ADLERMAN. In reference to the testimony of Mr. Kohn, when he stated the open nature of the gambling occurring there, I would like to point out that in 1958 the Internal Revenue Service made a raid of bookmaking establishments which were located in Jefferson Parish. The only jurisdiction that Internal Revenue would have is whether or not they have the gambling stamps.

Mr. Nulty, did you prepare this chart pursuant to your work for the committee?

Mr. NULTY. Yes, sir; I did.

Mr. ADLERMAN. Will you explain what that chart shows?

Mr. NULTY. This chart here is a small section of the southeast corner of Jefferson Parish, where Jefferson Parish joins Orleans Parish.

The Internal Revenue Service in its investigation found that twisted pair of wires which extended from this point marked "No. 1" on the chart, in Orleans Parish

The CHAIRMAN. What is the No. 1 point? Where is that located? Mr. NULTY. It is an address, 1202 Dante Street.

Mr. ADLERMAN. Is that the place where the Nola Printing Co. had a wire service operation?

Mr. NULTY. No; Nola Printing is up here in the middle of the chart.

Mr. ADLERMAN. But they had a wire service running down?

Mr. NULTY. That is correct. This wire went up along the parish line to Jefferson Highway, and along Jefferson Highway out to Causeway Boulevard, a distance of about 4 miles.

The CHAIRMAN. Was it on the regular telephone lines?

Mr. NULTY. It was strung along the power poles and trees along that way, and attached to buildings.

Mr. ÅDLERMAN. Is the center point of that line the Nola Printing Co.?

Mr. NULTY. About midway on this wire is 530 Iris Avenue, the headquarters of the Nola Printing Co.

Off of this 4-mile wire were 30 separate drops or wires leading into 30 different locations.

Mr. ADLERMAN. By drops you mean a place where they would have a microphone and would broadcast the race results?

Mr. NULTY. A wire was tapped into those places for that purpose, into various locations.

Mr. ADLERMAN. And these drops are gambling establishments? Mr. NULTY. They were.

The CHAIRMAN. What do you mean, bookies?

Mr. NULTY. Bookmaking establishments; yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. When you said "gambling establishments," you don't mean with all of the gambling paraphernalia of a casino, do you?

Mr. NULTY. Primarily bookmaking establishments, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Mr. NULTY. A raid, based on search warrants by the Internal Revenue Service, was made on a number of the places along here. They were not made on all of them because in some instances the places were not operating at that time. In other instances, Internal Revenue Service found that the operator of the place had a Federal license. The CHAIRMAN. What was the purpose of the Federal Bureau's raiding?

Mr. NULTY. The Internal Revenue Service?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, the Internal Revenue Service.

Mr. NULTY. Under the internal revenue laws, because they were shown to be operating a racehorse book without the Federal tax stamp. The CHAIRMAN. As I understand it, the Federal Government would have no jurisdiction over the actual gambling

Mr. NULTY. That is correct.

The CHAIRMAN. Except where they are getting the information interstate, they can be required and are required to procure a license or a stamp?

Mr. NULTY. That is correct. If they take any kind of wagers, they are expected they must have this Federal stamp.