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Mr. ADLERMAN. In 1960—the Nola Printing Co. is essentially a printing company, is that it?

Mr. NULTY. Yes, sir.

Mr. ADLERMAN. And did you examine their print bills, their paper and ink bills, or the amounts they paid out for paper and ink?

Mr. Nulty. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. ADLERMAN. How much did that come to? Was that $4,000-

Mr. Nulty. That is correct. They showed expenditures for paper and ink, which is considered should be the largest expenditure for a printing company; their expenditure for printing and ink in the year 1960 was $4,057.10.

The CHAIRMAN. $4,057.10?
Mr. NULTY. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. They got rather extravagant, didn't they?
Mr. ADLERMAN. That is on gross sales of $296,548, is that right?
Mr. NULTY. That is correct.
Mr. ADLERMAN. What was their telephone bill?

Mr. Nulty. That same year, the expenditure for telephone was $30,933.36.

Mr. ADLERMAN. No further questions.

TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH S. PORETTO, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL,

DAVID J. CARLINER; AND JOSEPH MARCELLO, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, JACK WASSERMAN–Resumed

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Marcello, do you want to comment on those figures ? Are they a little low, a little high, or about right?

Mr. MARCELLO. I decline to answer on the grounds that they might. tend to incriminate me.

The CHAIRMAN. Which might incriminate you the most, if they were a little low?

Mr. MARCELLO. I decline to answer on the grounds that it may tend to incriminate me.

The CHAIRMAN. What do you say about that, that it is a little high?

Mr. PORETTO. I decline to answer on the grounds that the answer may

tend to incriminate me. The CHAIRMAN. Suppose we got these figures just right. What would you say about that?

Mr. PORETTO. I would decline to answer the question on the grounds the answer might tend to incriminate me.

The CHAIRMAN. If they are just right, it might incriminate you, and if they are a little low, they might incriminate you, and if they are a little high they might incriminate you more; is that right?

Mr. PORETTO. I decline to answer the question on the grounds that the answer may tend to incriminate me.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any other questions?
Mr. ADLERMAN. Just one more question.

Mr. Poretto, you distribute information on a wholesale basis; that is, to other wire services, to Chicago, to Indianapolis, Cincinnati, and Boston? That is to other wire services.

Mr. PORETTO. I decline to answer the question on the grounds the. answer may tend to incriminate me.

75477–61— pt. 2-18

Mr. ADLERMAN. Mr. Marcello, have you heard that question ? Will you give us an answer?

Mr. MARCELLO. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to incriminate me.

Mr. ADLERMAN. Have you distributed on a retail basis, that is, to bookmaking establishments or horserace rooms, the horserace results to Newport, Ky., to Houston, Tex., Miami, Mobile, Gulfport, Detroit, Montgomery, Ala., and to points in Texas such as Houston, Galveston, and Beaumont?

Mr. PORETTO. I decline to answer the question on the grounds the answer may tend to incriminate me.

Mr. ADLERMAN. Would you answer the same way, Mr. Marcello, if I asked that question of you?

Mr. MARCELLO. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to incriminate me.

Mr. ADLERMAN. Do you distribute that information, for example, to Mr. Madden, at Hot Springs, Ark. ?

Mr. MARCELLO. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to incriminate me.

Mr. ADLERMAN. And you charge him a fee for that?

Mr. MARCELLO. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to incriminate me.

Mr. ADLERMAN. And do you distribute that information to Mr. Cyrus Lytle, of Little Rock!

Mr. MÁRCELLO. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to incriminate me.

Mr. ADLERMAN. Have you closed down your wire service in the last couple of weeks?

Mr. MARCELLO. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to incriminate me.

Mr. ADLERMAN. Have you shut it off at Hot Springs, Ark. ?

Mr. MARCELLO. I decline to answer on the grounds it may tend to incriminate me.

Mr. ADLERMAN. No further questions.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Poretto, do you know Murray Humphries, known somewhat better in your circles as “Camel” Humphries, of Chicago ?

Mr. PORETTO. I decline to answer the question on the grounds the answer may tend to incriminate me.

The CHAIRMAN. Would we have erroneous information if we were advised that he is the one that told you to get out of Hot Springs and stay out of there? Would that be erroneous information ?

Nr. PORETTO. I decline to answer the question on the grounds the answer may

tend to incriminate me. The CHAIRMAN. Have you been back to Hot Springs since?

Mr. PORETTO. I decline to answer the question on the grounds the answer may tend to incriminate me.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well. Is there anything else?
Mr. ADLERMAN. No further questions.
The CHAIRMAN. You may stand aside.
Call the next witness.
Mr. ADLERMAN. Mr. Owen Madden and Mr. James Vitro.
The CHAIRMAN. The witnesses will be sworn.

Do you and each of you solemnly swear the evidence you shall give before this Senate subcommittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. VITRO. I do.
Mr. MADDEN. I do.

TESTIMONY OF JAMES VITRO AND OWEN MADDEN, ACCOMPANIED

BY COUNSEL, CHARLES LINCOLN

The CHAIRMAN. The witness on my left, will you identify yourself, stating your name, your place of residence, and your business or occupation ?

Mr. VITRO. James Vitro. I live at 239 Cedar Street, Hot Springs, Ark.

The CHAIRMAN. And the gentleman on my right, will you identify yourself?

Mr. MADDEN. My name is Owen Madden. I live at 506 West Grand Avenue, Hot Springs, Ark.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Vitro, I do not believe you told me your occupation or your business.

Mr. VITRO. I beg your pardon?

The CHAIRMAN. I beg your pardon. I say I do not believe you told

me your occupation or your business.
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
The CHAIRMAN. Can he not hear?
Mr. LINCOLN. He is deaf in one ear.
The CHAIRMAN. Use the other one.

Mr. VITRO. I decline to answer the question on the grounds that my answer might incriminate me.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well. Mr. Madden, did you give us your occupation?

Mr. MADDEN. I am retired, Senator.
The CHAIRMAN. I beg your pardon?
Mr. MADDEN. I am retired.
The CHAIRMAN. You are retired?
Mr. MADDEN. Yes; I am.
The CHAIRMAN. Since when ?
Mr. MADDEN. A few years, quite a few years.

The CHAIRMAN. You have been retired quite a few years from what?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
The CHAIRMAN. You said you had been retired quite a few years.
Mr. MADDEN. Yes.
The CHAIRMAN. What did you retire from?

What was your business or occupation!

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. MADDEN. I refuse to answer on the grounds of-
The CHAIRMAN. I suggest you say “decline to answer."
Mr. Madden. I respectfully decline to answer.
The CHAIRMAN. Very well.
Gentlemen, you have counsel, have you?
Mr. VITRO. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Counsel, you may identify yourself for the record.

asked you.

Mr. LINCOLN. Charles Lincoln, 1515 Tower Building, Little Rock.
The CHAIRMAN. You may proceed, Mr. Counsel.
Mr. ADLERMAN. Mr. Madden, you were formerly a resident of New
York City ?

Mr. MADDEN. I respectfully decline
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. ADLERMAN. Do you decline to answer that question?
Mr. MADDEN. That is right.
Mr. ADLERMAN. You were born in England, were you?
(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Nr. MADDEN. I object to that on account of pertinency.

The CHAIRMAN. Were you born in England? There is no objection to that. We have had a lot of English people that are citizens. In fact, a lot of our forefathers came from over there. I think they told me mine came from Ireland, and that is right close by.

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
Mr. ADLERMAN. What is your answer?
Mr. MADDEN. What?
The CHAIRMAN. Were you born in England ? That is what he
Mr. MADDEN. I object to the answer on pertinency.
Mr. ADLERMAN. I will withdraw the question.
Mr. MADDEN. His answer.

Mr. ADLERMAN. Are you naturalized? Are you a naturalized citizen of the United States?

Mr. MADDEN. Yes.

Mr. ADLERMAN. Do you have a place of business in Hot Springs called the Downtown Printing Co., at 215 Exchange Street, Hot Springs ?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)
The CHAIRMAN. Is Mr. Madden hard of hearing, too!
Mr. LINCOLN. Yes; he is.
The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Mr. MADDEN. I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds that it might incriminate me.

Mr. ADLERMAN. Did you also have a business called Mus-O-Matic, Inc., or did you have an interest in such business?

Mr. MADDEN. I respectfully decline to answer because it may incriminate me.

Mr. ADLERMAN. Do you hear me well enough? I say, do you hear me well enough?

Mr. MADDEN. Yes, I did.

Mr. ADLERMAN. Is the Downtown Printing Co. a business supplying horserace wire service?

(The witness conferred with his counsel.)

Mr. ADLERMAN. Is the Downtown Printing Co. a horserace wire. service? Does it give out horserace results?

Mr. MADDEN. I respectfully refuse to answer that question on the grounds it may incriminate me.

Mr. ADLERMAN. Do you pay Nola News $250 a week for such information ?

Mr. MADDEN. I respectfully decline to answer that question, also.. It may incriminate me.

Mr. ADLERMAN. Do you have a series of six establishments in Hot Springs that you service with horserace results?

Mr. MADDEN. I respectfully decline to answer that question on account of it might incriminate me.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Madden, I am going to ask you these questions rapidly. Can you hear me very well ?

Mr. MADDEN. Yes, I can.

The CHAIRMAN. All right. According to the information we have, you service the Citizens Club in Hot Springs, the White Front Club, the Blue Ribbon Club, and the Pensioners Club. Do you

know these clubs, where they are located in Hot Springs?

Mr. MADDEN. I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds that it may tend to incriminate me.

The CHAIRMAN. Are these clubs actually bookies where they take bets on the horses?

Mr. MADDEN. I re- What did you say again, Senator?

The CHAIRMAN. Are these clubs in fact places of bookies where they take bets on the horses?

Mr. MADDEN. I respectfully take the fifth on that, too.
The CHAIRMAN. Does that light bother you?
Mr. MADDEN. It bothers the hell out of me.
The CHAIRMAN. I did not understand you.
Mr. MADDEN. Yes, it bothers me. It bothers me a lot.

The CHAIRMAN. All right, turn this light out. Turn the light out or turn it around so it will not be in his eyes.

Is that better?
Mr. MADDEN. That is fine.
The CHAIRMAN. That is fine, all right.

According to the information we have, each one of these clubs that I have named or bookies, whichever they are, or both, pay you $175 each week to give them the horseracing news. Is that true ?

Mr. MADDEN. Well, I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds that my answer might tend to incriminate me.

The CHAIRMAN. Very good. According to the information the committee has here, there are two other clubs that you service. One is called the Cameo Club, and the other is Tim's Place.

Do you know anything about Tim's Place and the Cameo Club?

Mr. LINCOLN. I am sorry, Senator, one of the TV men came up with a light meter, and he looked over at him and did not get your question.

The CHAIRMAN. I do not care if you get pictures, but do not interfere. I have been very good to you boys and you have been very good to me. Let's not interfere with the witness while he is testifying. It is all right; you can take the pictures. They have not objected to that.

I ask you, do you know anything about the Cameo Club or Tim's Place in Hot Springs?

Mr. MADDEN. I respectfully decline on the grounds that it might tend to incriminate me.

The CHAIRMAN. According to the information the committee has, you also service these clubs with horserace news horseracing news, for $50 a piece each week. Is that true!

Mr. MADDEN. I respectfully decline to answer, Senator, on the ground that it might tend to incriminate me.

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