Mr. STOKES. No, sir. The tickets have been subpenaed, sir; they are in the hands of your subpena. Mr. ADLERMAN. I would like to put these toll tickets into evidence. The CHAIRMAN. You may present them. Do you recognize these tickets which I hand you in bulk? It is quite a stack of them, maybe a hundred or more. (The documents were handed to the witness.) Mr. STOKES. Yes, sir; these are the tickets which were secured from the telephone company. The CHAIRMAN. Very well. They may be made exhibit No. 64. (The documents referred to were marked "Exhibit No. 64" for reference and may be found in the files of the subcommittee.) Mr. ADLERMAN. On the basis of those toll tickets we compiled last night some record of these calls. The CHAIRMAN. Who compiled that? Mr. ADLERMAN. Mr. Tierney. TESTIMONY OF PAUL J. TIERNEY—Resumed The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Tierney, will you identify the compilation made of these tickets? Mr. TIERNEY. Yes, Mr. Chairman. The calls of interest charged to Arcade Home Remodelers, telephone Tuxedo 9-4839, which was the organization we were discussing, were on September 9, 1959, and December 8, 1959. Calls were made to the Superior Sports Service, Old Looney Mill Road, Birmingham, Ala. Mr. ADLERMAN. Is that the address of Mr. Dodson? Mr. TIERNEY. Mr. Maurice Dodson. One call was placed to Union 6-8213, Miami, listed to one Kay Gordon, but investigation revealed this is actually the address of Gil Beckley in Surfside, Fla. One call was to CO 1-3911, Newport, Ky., which is the Glenn Hotel, 928 Monmouth Street, Newport, Ky. Mr. Dardis just testified concerning the Glenn Hotel. At that address are the Glenn Rendezvous and the T. & C. Sales, the latter of which is operated by Mr. Beckley, and both of which are nationally known layoff centers. Nine calls to JU 1-8489, Newport, Ky., listed to the T. & C. Sales Co., 928 Monmouth Street, Newport, Ky., testified to as Gil Beckley's office. Two calls on September 9, 1959, and September 10, 1959, to FE 8-5656, Minneapolis, Minn., listed to Athletic Publications, Gorham Building, Minneapolis, Minn., the firm of Mr. Hirshfield that we had testimony concerning yesterday. Mr. ADLERMAN. There are numerous other calls. The CHAIRMAN. That compilation may be printed in the record at this point. (The compilation referred to is as follows:) Calls charged to Arcade Home Remodelers, Tuxedo 9-4839, Chicago, Ill. VO 3-1172, St. Louis, Mo... Dave Goldberg, 6310 Northwood, St. Louis, AL 4-2540, New York, N.Y.... American Kennel Club, 221 Park Ave. South, [Sept. 12, 1959 Athletic Publications, Gorham Bldg., Min- Sept. 9, 1959 2 Sept. 10, 1959 MA 1-4700, Cleveland, Ohio... Hollenden Hotel, East 6th St. and Superior 8 Sept. 22, 1959 LO 1-4645, Pittsburgh, Pa.. Michael S. Martorella, 4209 Greenridge Rd., Sept. 29, 1959 2 Oct. 3, 1959 14 calls. 22 calls. Call was originally placed to DI 4-1400, then switched to DI 8-3431. DI 4-1400 is a nonpublished telephone number, listed to P. B. Fasullo, 326 West Morland Dr., Baton Rouge, La. This may be a misprint for BE 2-6177, which is listed to John Collins, 19 Netherlands Rd., Brookline, Mass. Call was originally placed to AS 7-7737, then switched to BE 2-6117. AS 7-7737 is listed to Eleanor L. Price, 9 Rawson Rd., Brookline, Mass. 3 calls. NOTES.-All calls are station-to-station, not directed to any particular person or any room number. TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH D. STOKES-Resumed Mr. ADLERMAN. Mr. Stokes, has an announcement been made or a bulletin issued by the Illinois Bell Telephone, an official bulletin issued on September 5, 1961? Mr. STOKES. Yes, sir. Mr. ADLERMAN. I would like to read a statement from this bulletin. The CHAIRMAN. Is this the bulletin? Do you identify it? Mr. STOKES. Yes, sir; it is. The CHAIRMAN. It may be made exhibit No. 65. (The document referred to was marked exhibit No. 65 for reference and may be found in the files of the subcommittee.) The CHAIRMAN. I read from this bulletin No. 91, September 5, 1961: What's our policy on bookie phone business? We don't want it! The current Senate Investigations Subcommittee hearings on gambling have focused attention on Chicago-and on the communications business. Again, the inevitable question has arisen: How does the telephone company feel about bookies using phones to take bets? The answer is the same today as it was 10 years ago when President William V. Kahler issued this statement: "I want every Illinois Bell employee to know we mean it when we say we don't want the business of anyone engaged in an illegal enterprise. "The record speaks for itself-over 14,500 telephones disconnected since 1937 because of illegal use (over 20,000 now, including 738 this year through August 31), and hundreds of applications for service turned down. "Each employee has a stake in protecting our service and our standing with the public-for the company's reputation affects the reputation of everyone who works for it." I want to commend your company for having that policy. Senator MUNDT. As I understand it, I don't know what your title is, but you are with the criminal section of the security division of the Illinois Bell Telephone Company; is that right? Mr. STOKES. Yes, sir, that is correct. Senator MUNDT. Is the purpose of that division primarily to protect the company against the illegal uses of phone calls? Is that part of your function? Mr. STOKES. The criminal section is divided into approximately three groups. Some work toll credit fraud cards and a third on thefts, outside thefts as well as inner company. Senator MUNDT. What presumption of guilt must you establish in the telephone company to take from a man's premises a phone for which he is paying rent? You don't have complete control of that. With two restaurant men running a restaurant legitimately, you couldn't go in and take a phone away from them? Mr. STOKES. No, sir. Senator MUNDT. You have to establish some kind of presumption of guilt or something? Mr. STOKES. Yes, sir. Senator MUNDT. Tell us what techniques you use. Mr. STOKES. We use this in establishing the suspicion of a particular location. We use certain routines which we established, and we never establish actually that the telephone is being illegally used until such time as we gain entrance to the premises and talk to the individual using these phones. In our experience, we can look around and fairly judge the situation if it is a legitimate business or if it is not. Senator MUNDT. Do you operate pretty much on the theory that if you take out the phone of a gambler or a racketeer, he isn't going to sue you and make you put it back in, so you have a little latitude on that? Is that about right? Mr. STOKES. This is a very good assumption; yes, sir. Senator MUNDT. One other question: Since you own the phones and you own the telephone wires, is there some legal proprietary right that you have to listen in on phone conversations or tap wires for your own information which you might not have if you were going to appear in court as a witness? Mr. STOKES. No, sir; there is not. Senator MUNDT. You don't have that right? Mr. STOKES. There is no provision for monitoring a line, no, sir. Mr. STOKES. That is true, yes, sir; but we have a secrecy of communications law that forbids this, except for our plant people who are engaged in maintaining this equipment. They in turn-it is necessary, of course, for them to go in on a line but not to listen, but merely to test to see if it is being used. Senator MUNDT. Some man might have a natural curiosity as to whether the signals were coming strong enough or whether there were any technical difficulties, if there was any buzzing on the lines that made it unintelligible. That is part of your work, to maintain good clear signals in communications? Mr. STOKES. Yes, sir. Senator MUNDT. You have to find out where the trouble is. You have to know what the difficulty is. If you happen to hear something else, it just happens? Mr. STOKES. The electronic law does not allow this even if he does. It is our people's job to see that the line is clear of a customer's conversation before doing any actual work on the line. He has to wait until the customer is finished, call the customer, and make his test at that time. Senator MUNDT. I will put the question differently. Mechanically, it is possible to tune in on a telephone conversation? Mr. STOKES. Yes, sir; very definitely. Senator MUNDT. I recognize you couldn't use it in court as evidence, but I think it well for the criminal world to know that it is possible, and that a telephone company has an understanding diligence about maintaining the efficiency of its service, and on occasion perhaps, consequently, they have to be sure the signal is coming through. No further comment. The CHAIRMAN. Is there anything further? Mr. ADLERMAN. No further questions. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. Call the next witness. Mr. ADLERMAN. Mr. Frank Rosenthal. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Rosenthal, come forward, please. Be sworn, please, sir. You do solemnly swear the evidence you shall give before this Senate subcommittee shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. ROSENTHAL. Yes, sir. TESTIMONY OF FRANK L. ROSENTHAL, ACCOMPANIED BY COUNSEL, H. CLIFFORD ALLDER The CHAIRMAN. State your name, your place of residence, and your business or occupation. Mr. ROSENTHAL. Frank Larry Rosenthal, Miami Beach, Fla. The CHAIRMAN. What is your business or occupation, Mr. Rosenthal? Mr. ROSENTHAL. I decline to answer the question, because I honestly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me. The CHAIRMAN. Very well. You have counsel. reflect counsel appearing with the witness. Let the record Proceed, Mr. Adlerman-what was your name, Frank what? Mr. ROSENTHAL. Frank Larry Rosenthal. The CHAIRMAN. Are you also known as Lefty? Mr. ROSENTHAL. I respectfully decline to answer the question, as I honestly believe my answer might tend to incriminate me. The CHAIRMAN. Some witnesses have referred to you here as Lefty, I believe, and stated under oath that you had so identified yourself to them at times, that you referred to yourself as Lefty. Senator MUNDT. Are you left handed? Mr. ROSENTHAL. I respectfully decline to answer the question on the grounds that my answer might tend to incriminate me. Senator MUNDT. Are you sure you can make that stand up in court, whether a man is right handed or left handed is going to incriminate him, or might you be possibly subject to contempt of Congress by refusing to answer that? Maybe your lawyer knows some reason why it would be incriminating to say whether you are left handed or right handed, but it is a little hard for me to understand. Mr. ALLDER. Do you want me to answer, Senator? The CHAIRMAN. There would be instances where maybe the evident physical fact would show a blow or something was struck with the left hand. It is a farfetched thing, but it might. But where it is just involving placing racing bets, I do not know that the left hand has any advantage over the right, or vice versa. Mr. ALLDER. As his counsel, I sincerely believe that for him to answer would incriminate him, Senator: Senator MUNDT. It might be a trigger finger. You can't tell. Mr. ADLERMAN. We do have as an exhibit in the record the transcript of the testimony in the case of the State of Florida against Rosenthal, in which he says his name is Lefty. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Rosenthal, according to this transcript of your testimony on the 6th day of January this year, 1961, when you testified regarding the racing license or license to race Mr. ADLERMAN. They put a charge against him for being a gambler. The CHAIRMAN. What forum was this? Mr. ADLERMAN. The State of Florida. The CHAIRMAN. Where you testified, it says— There appeared in the office of the State attorney, 12th floor, Dade County Courthouse, on the 6th of January, 1961, at 10:45 a.m. and your name is mentioned, and your testimony was taken down. You were asked one question that says: "You are also known as 'Lefty'? And your answer was, "Yes, sir; it is a baseball nickname." Is that correct? Mr. ROSENTHAL. I respectfully decline to answer the question as I feel the answer might tend to incriminate me. The CHAIRMAN. Did you ever play baseball? (The witness conferred with his counsel.) The CHAIRMAN. This is your language here, according to this record that I quoted. Mr. ROSENTHAL. I respectfully decline to answer the question as I honestly believe my answer may tend to incriminate me. |