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such wine was not fit to drink, by which neans perhaps the most unexceptionable article would be condemned in the estimnation of the consumers; and the plain truth of the matter was that the wine in question was condemned in India by the influence of rival merchants, although the quality of it was unexceptionable.

With respect to the by-law now proposed he had only to say, upon the last authority that not above one quarter of the Company's exports were bought or could be bought by public advertisement; in fact, there were very few articles that could be purchased by such means. Therefore it appeared to him that this by-law was totally unnecessary, and he called upon the court not to pass it, because it would inevitably fetter the directors in many of their commercial transactions. It was proposed that the committee of buying and selling should state their reasous to the court of directors for every purchase they should make. Now nothing could be more fallacious than such a regulation; because, if the Company had confidence in the integrity and honour of the persons thus employed in their service, what useful object could be attained in calling upon them to detail reasons and opinions which might or might not be correct, but which at last must be governed by the judgment of the persons so employed? With respect to this par ticular wine transaction, he would venture to assert that there never was any thing more honourable or disinterested; and he hoped the court would allow him to state, as a proof of it, that the only person connected with the gentlemen who had received the order for the wine would not sit upon the committee, for he would have nothing to do whatever with the transaction. But when the committee were left to themselves they divided upon the proposition, and they fixed upon those two houses which had supplied the wine. Experience had proved, that in many most important articles the manner in which the Company had made their purchases was highly advantageous, and that if they had adopted a contrary practice their loss would have been incalculable; he alluded particularly to woollen articles, to can. dles, and others. He was aware however that the principles of competition had been usefully adopted in some cases: as for instance, in lead, copper, and coals for the use of the house, which were latterly purchased by open contract. But if they were to purchase woollen and other articles upon that principle, they must have sustained inevitable loss. He had known instances himself, where commodities of this kind had been purchased at twenty per cent. cheaper than they could have been procured by public contract or competition. It appeared to him that the

only case which could justify a departure from the Company's accustomed practice was wherever there was a combination in any particular branch of trade; in such case the Company would undoubtedly resort to public advertisement, as indeed they always did upon occasions of that kind. The experience of many, many years was decidedly against the principle of competition, and therefore he should hold up his hand against the whole of the by-law, conceiving, as he did, that no such check was wanted.

The Hon. D. Kinnaird was extremely sorry that the discussion upon this by-law seemed to have turned upon a transaction not immediately connected with the substantial principle upon which it stood, but the object of which seemed to be to get rid entirely of the law proposed. He was ready to admit that his hon. friend (Mr. Hume) had a blunt manner of drawing conclusions; but it often happened that a man in pursuit of truth did not think it' at all necessary to pay much attention to the feelings of those who might be implicated in the disclosure. It seemed however to him, on the present occasion, that those persons who night indirectly have their feelings irritated had adopted a very unwise course in reproving his hon. friend, forgetting that the facts upon which he argued were before court, and that the utmost which could be urged against his hon. friend was that he had forgotten to be very gentle in the use of those facts. Now he (Mr. K.) denied that those facts which his hon. friend had brought forward were at all answered by what had been stated; and he should have been most happy to pass over a transaction which he must say had opened his mind a good deal to the necessity of the law pro posed. It was not his intention to have spoken upon this subject: but he must say that he should have been very sorry to have been a member of the committee of buying and selling; for however honorable that committee was in its intentions, and however certain many persons might be that they had intended nothing wrong, yet he was quite convinced that it was impossible for any person to look at the transaction in question without being at least satisfied that in the first instance the primâ facie case was against the committee. He was extremely sorry that this transaction had taken place; for although he was unwilling to attribute to the hon. gentlemen on that committee any sinister intentions, yet it was incumbent upon him, as a proprietor, to attend to the cir cumstances of the case, in order to induce him to put a by-law upon the Company's code for the purpose of preventing the recurrence of a similar transaction. The court were bound to take care that all transac◄ tions of this sort, in which the Company

were engaged, should be grounded upon principle, and not upon the sound discretion and judgment of any men in the service of the Company. The hon. gentlemen employed upon the committee of buying and selling might conduct the affairs of the Company upon principle, but at present the court of proprietors had no right to control them if they should happen to be wrong. It was not sufficient that the court should be told that the committee ought to act upon the good opinion which they entertained of the persons with whom they generally dealt, nor was it a sufficient guarantee for the interests of the Company to be told, that if a trader used the committee ill they would not deal with him afterwards. He did not like to have transactions of this kind governed by the mere judgment and opinion which the committee might form of particular individuals. There might be personal feelings in the case to influence the judgment of the persons who employed a man with whom they had been in the habit of dealing; but, on the other hand, there were a thousand circumstances which might induce the committee to con fide in a person of whom they knew nothing. Why, if the doctrine now contended for were adopted, the court would have the committee of buying and selling say, "we had such a knowledge of that individual, that we thought we might (contrary to all commercial principles, deal with him, but he has deceived us." Surely the committee deserved to be deceived, if they chose to act upon such uncommercial principles. He understood, that in consequence of this wine transaction, the directors had given orders to their committee of buying and selling to report the purchases they were to make hereafter, before they were completed. Now he should like to know what other commentary could be made on that resolution than this: why, that some transactions had come to the knowledge of the court of directors which induced them to think it necessary to place this check upon the committee of buying and selling. If he (Mr. K.) were a member of that committee, the observation he should make would be, "I think you are taking an odious responsibility from me; and I shall be most happy to report to you all purchases which I shall hereafter make, whether there be or be not any necessity for it." So much then for the transactions of the court of directors themselves. The subject was then referred to the committee of by-laws, who felt themselves bound to suggest, that, in addition to the regulation made by the directors, it would be of use to the Company, that if instead of the committee of buying and selling being required merely to report their purchases to the directors, a fur

ther duty should be imposed upon them of putting their reasons on record for such purchases, unless specific reasons intervened to prevent such a communica tion. Now nobody could doubt the propriety of this additional restriction. The Company did not vary their transactions every year, so that the committee would not be called upon cvery year to state their reasons for dealing in particular ar ticles but he apprehended that their reasons for dealing in wool ought neces→ sarily to be stated, until they found it wise to change their mode of dealing in that article; for he was clearly of opinion that they ought not to go on dealing in the same manuer in that commodity as they had hitherto done. In the first conversation which he had with a gentleman upon the subject of the mode of dealing in wool, he said, "Oh, dear! we have discussed this matter already very much at length; the subject of wool has been already discussed; the case is made out, we find there is but one mode of purchasing wool." Now it appeared to him that the directors would order their matters wisely by at least trying the experiment proposed. They need not deal all at once upon the principle of open contract, but they might go on with safety, gradually altering their system. He was quite of opinion with the committee of by-laws, that if the directors had the reasons of the committee of buying and selling on record, it would very much influence their conduct, because he was perfectly persuaded that there had been many purchases made which the directors would not have confirmed, had they had an opportunity of considering the reasons upon which they were founded. The hon. gentleman who spoke last, it seemed to him, had very much committed himself upon the subject of the wine transaction. He had told the court, "Oh it was all intrigue that ruined the finest speculation in the world;-I would have done the same thing myself." Now, with all the respect which he sincerely entertained for the hon. gentleman, it was possible that he might have been mistaken in his calculations. But supposing he might think he had acted upon the soundest judgment; after all, it was but the opinion of an individual, which ought not to govern the court. No man, certainly, but the hon. gentleman himself, would advise a friend to commit his fortunes upon a speculation like this; therefore the opinions of an individual was not the rule by which the Company ought to act. But then it was said, that the ill success of this wine speculation was to be attributed to intrigue, and the caprice of the wine drinkers in India, who sent the wine back, declaring that it was not drinkable. Now if he (Mr. K.) had been a merchant,

he should have taken care to ascertain from these bon vivans what sort of wines they preferred, and if he had found out that they praised up the wines of this or that particular house, he should have been studious to procure that wine which was their favorite, no matter from whence it came or from whom it was bought. It so happened, however, that this wine was not a favorite. If the customers were captious, he would endeavour to please their taste; but if he did not chuse to deal upon such terms, he would rather give up the trade altogether than run the risk of immense loss. Here then was a transaction attended with a certain loss, and his hon. friend (Mr. Hume) had a right to comment upon the circumstances which led to that loss. But beside the loss, the hon. gentleman who had spoken last had given his hon. friend another handle to complain, from the very manner in which this transaction was conducted by the committee of buying and selling; for appeared that they alone were interested in it, their motives and reasons for it being kept a secret from the court of directors. Then an hon. director mentioned the name of Mr. Robertson, and jealousy was set up as a plea for the ill success of the adventure. Now he really had no acquaintance with Mr. Robertson, but as far as he knew any thing of that gentleman, his name would stand high in the scale of respectability, without being put "cheek by jole" with Sir Charles Paxton and others. If Mr. Robertson, as a dealer in the wine trade, thought this a "devilish good thing," why was he not to be allowed to participate in the benefit of it as well as others? Mr. Robertson, it seemed, had applied to be allowed to supply some of this wine, but he was refused-why? because the committee had already given the order for the whole two thousand chests. Then the court were told by the hon. director who spoke last, that the committee of buying and selling also became jealous; of what were they jealous? had they any interest in disposing of this good thing? He was quite surprised to hear the observation, that the committee of buying and selling, who succeeded to the previous committee of buying and selling, were jealous! Good God! was there any emolument attending upon it? Were these two thousand chests marked out contrary to the common practice of buying other commodities? If not, then there was most unnatural and very unusual jealousy on the part of the succeeding committee.

Mr. Inglis explained, and said that the hon. gentleman had totally mistaken the observation he had made. He had never said that the committee of buying and selling, who had succeeded the committee

of which he was a member, were jealous; but he had said, that in consequence of the order having been given to the persons who had supplied the wine, others became jealous. The committee were not jealous for of what were

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they to be jealous? They could gain nothing by it one way or other. Being upon his legs, he must take the liberty of putting the hon. gentleman right upon another short point. When the hon. gentleman stated that this was a transaction upon which the committee ought to have taken the opinion of the court of directors, he seemed to have forgotten that it was not then the practice of the committee so to do upon any purchase being made. Most willingly would the committee have received the advice and assistance of the court of directors, but it was not the practice then for the committee to report the purchases they had made.

The hon. D. Kinnaird. Then it appeared that the committee were not jealous. There was, however, manifestly something in the transaction which induced the directors to adopt a regulation which compelled the committee of buying and selling to report their purchases before they were completed. What the reasons were for such a regulation, no doubt the gentlemen bebind the bar could explain to the proprietors at large. But this did appearthat there was a necessity for the committee to apply to the court of directors before the purchases were ratified. There' was certainly one striking fact which could not be denied, and which appeared to be utterly irreconcileable with the duty of the committee, namely, that the contract for the purchase of this claret was completed, and the greatest part of the wine delivered before the price was known to the Company. He distinctly recollected this question being put to the officer:-“ Had the price of the claret varied-had it turned out that the price at which these gentlemen delivered the wine had been much greater than the current price at the time it was delivered, would the court of directors have had it in their power to annul the contract?" The answer was distinctly " no;"-and the answer was— that they had concluded by themselves a bargain, which under no circumstances could be rescinded-that they had wisely suffered the wine to be delivered before they knew the price. Therefore, it was to prevent the recurrence of such an extraordinary proceeding as this, that the bylaw in question was proposed. The committee of by-laws had studiously avoided making any reflections on the committee of buying and selling: all that they sought was to carry the intentions of the directors into effect, aud with a view to make this further regulation,-that if hereafter any inquiry should be made, or any insi

nuations unjustly cast upon the committee of buying and selling, by any proprietor of this court, there should be persons ready to stand up and say, "here are the reasons recorded upon which the committee at that time, or the court at this time, were willing to rest this or that transaction ;" putting therefore, an end to all insinuation of private motives or interests - these are the reasons which governed our judgment at the time, and every body else may equally exercise their judgment. For his own part, he thought that it would be much more creditable to the court themselves, and certainly more satisfactory to all parties, if a spirit of good temper pervaded the proceedings of the day, and all insinuations against motives were laid aside; and he declared, upon his honor, that he had flattered himself that by so doing, the committee of by-laws would be furthering the intentions of the court of directors; so that if the reasons for deviating from the regular rule should be put upon record, there might be no cavilling or question as to the motives which induced them to act; for at present, the only mode by which the court could arrive at the motive for deviating from the general practice of purchasing by open contract, was by examining the officer of the committee. That officer was in a very painful situation, for it was impossible for him to dive into particular reasons. Common justice to the Company required, that the moment the committee came to the resolution of buying, they should state the reason why they had determined so to act. He, therefore, confidently submitted that this was the safest and wisest system to pursue.

Mr. Elphinstone complained that the hon. gentleman had but too successfully followed the example of his predecessor (Mr. Hume) in attacking persons who were perfectly free from blame in this transaction; but he, (Mr. E.) professed himself entirely unable to cope with the hon. gentleman in the business of insinuation. He always liked an open manly at tack, because the ground was clear, and it could be met upon equal terms; but the attack by insinuation was intolerable, it was like a wound inflicted in the dark. Of such a description was the mode of attack adopted by the hon. gentleman, and therefore it was impossible to put the question for consideration fairly in issue. The objection to the proposed by-law was not as to the propriety of reporting what purchases had been made by the buying and selling committee, but the necessity for them to give their reasons. The by-law itself was a very good one, but he never could accede to the general proposition of purchasing all the Compa

ny's export commodities by public adver tisement: that ought not to be permitted.

Mr. Jackson requested to be informed by the deputy chairman when the price of the claret was first ascertained by the court of directors.

The Deputy Chairman.-On the 9th Dec. 1814.

Mr. Jackson-I wish to know when the first two thousand half chests were ordered?

The Deputy Chairman.-In May 1814. Mr. Jackson.-When were the second two thousand half chests ordered?

The Deputy Chairman.-In December of the same year.

Mr. Jackson then expressed his regret that the committee of by-laws had introduced this transaction at all into their report, though he must admit that it was perfectly natural for them, in signing such a by-law as has been proposed, to allude to the transaction. The only observation he should make upon what had passed was, that the sarcasms thrown upon his hon. friend (Mr. Hume) were most unfounded, because it now turned out, from the admission of the hon. deputy chairman, that two thousand half chests were ordered several months before the price was settled.

The Deputy Chairman.-The second two thousand half chests were not ordered until the price was known of the first.

Mr. Jackson then argued strongly in favor of the proposed by-law, which he contended had been in substance adopted in the shape of a resolution by the court of directors. But it should be recollected that a resolution was not a law: there would be less likelihood of an infraction in one case than in the other. As a general principle, nothing was more unexceptionable than the system of purchasing by open competition; and there was nothing very hard imposed upon the directors by this regulation, because the by-law gave them a discretion to depart from it in certain special excepted cases, upon condition of their reasons for such departure being stated on record. This latter obligation was indispensibly necessary, because it was the only check which the Company had against the abuse of the discretionary power given by the law. If there was any serious doubt entertained by the court of the directors, or they had not made up their minds as to, the propriety of the law, it appeared to him that the shortest way of disposing of the question was, that a committee of directors should be appointed to consider of the subject, and report to the court whether, in their sober judgment, such a law ought to pass. With this view he should submit to the court the propriety of adjourning this particular

law to another day, when it might be fur. ther discussed.

The Deputy Chairman said, it would be very inconvenient to adjourn for the purpose of hearing more painful, troublesome, not to say useless orations from some honorable proprietors. The court had sometimes attended to very long speeches from two hon. gentlemen, which for their industry and research did them some credit, but he must say, that he never heard speeches in his life more full of inuendo and insinuation against the respectable body of men whom the proprietors had chosen to superintend their affairs, than the speeches of the two hon. gentlemen in the corner (Mr. Hume and Mr. Kinnaird). He (Mr. P.) had sat for some time patiently listening to their observations, because he was quite conscious of not deserving the insinuations they had thought proper to throw out. It was true he had sat as a member of the buying and selling committee, but he happened not to be present at the moment the wine purchase was made; and perhaps if he had, he should not have exactly agreed in the mode adopted. As to the principle of the purchase, he perfectly concurred in the propriety of it. The character of the perşons chosen to supply the wine was unexceptionable; they were two of the most respectable and celebrated houses in that trade. As to the quality of the wine, it was unquestionable, notwithstanding all that had been said against it. He had a letter before him from Bengal which stated that the wine was of the most unexceptionable quality, but that the reason of its failure was, that the market was very much overstocked from the opening of the private trade, and consequently that it could not be sold. Perhaps the quantity might be considered large; but it should be recollected that it was not sent out all at once. It was in fact dispatched at four different seasons. One hundred half chests at one time; five hundred at another, and the remainder in two other lots; the result, however, un. fortunately was, that the wine came back again unsold. As to the quality of the wine it was so excellent that it was now fit to be drank by any epicure in London. He confessed that he should have had no objection to the proposed by-law, had the debate of to-day been conducted with common decency. But the hon. gentleman (Mr. Hume) had laid it on so thick," as really to indispose the directors towards any measure which he could recommend. Happily that hon. gentleman was not one of the committee of by-laws, and he (Mr. P.) trusted he should never see him in that situation. He (Mr. P.) had the highest opinion of the committee of by-laws, because he believed

it was composed of such honorable individuals, that he was quite persuaded they would not recommend any measure which they did not believe to be really beneficial. But the hon. gentleman (Mr. H.) had indulged himself with such indecent attacks upon the court of directors and particular individuals, had come down with such a bias of prejudice, as to make it impossible for the court of directors to sit patiently under such treatment. At the same time, he (Mr. P.) was not at all afraid to meet any of the hon. gentleman's charges or inuendoes. But the objection he had to the by-law proposed, was, that it implied a want of confidence in the court of directors. The court of proprietors had had the opportunity of choosing those whom they thought to be properly qualified to manage their affairs; and having chosen such persons as they thought fit for the situation, those persons ought to have the credit of intending to act from proper motives, until the contrary was proved. Now he (Mr. P.), for one, did claim to be admitted to have acted upon honorable and honest principles; and he did not think that the court of directors deserved the observation of the hon. gentleman, who said "he thought that the directors would be a little more attentive to the transactions of the Company, if they were their own." In answer to this most unjustifiable remark, he had only to say, that the hon. gentleman had totally mistaken his ground in the language he thought proper to use towards the gentlemen who sat behind that bar. When the hon. gentleman thought himself warranted in advising the directors to act in the East-India Company's affairs, as if they were their own, he had only to say, that the advice was unnecessary, and that he spurned advice coming from such a quarter. He would receive nothing from that hon. gentleman; if he could find him (Mr. P.) out in any thing improper, why let him turn him out of his situation ;but so long as he did his duty in that place he had a right to that courtesy which was due to every man intending to act properly and conscientiously.

Mr. Hume denied the fact that he had made any such insinuations as the hon. gentleman supposed. The hon. director on the right (Mr. Elphinstone) had brought forward facts, and stated circumstances, which he (Mr. H.) felt himself warranted in commenting upon; and the whole of his observations were confined to those facts, and to the remarks made by that hou. director.

Mr. Elphinstone begged that the hon. gentleman would not put into his mouth words which he had never used: he had never uttered any thing which could justify the insinuations and calumuies

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