LIEUT.-COLONEL HARRIS.

Mr. D. Kinnaird rose to ask a ques tion, on a subject which would not require much discussion, as he did not mean to say any thing to challenge it; but he did think it was one worthy of interesting the proprietors very much. The character of the person he was about to advert to, was sufficiently well known to insure the attention of every unbiassed and disinterested proprietor. He alluded to the case of Lieut.-Colonel Harris, which was still under the consideration of the court of directors. He should be sorry if any thing that might fall from him should have a sinister effect on the consideration of that case: but when he recollected that the memorial was now for nine months before the court of directors, and when he believed it was a case that might have been decided in as many days, he could not avoid noticing it. It was very hard that justice was not done in this matter; and, in behalf of Colonel Harris, he must observe, that his character ought not to have been suffered to lie under an imputation for a considerable period, in consequence of, what appeared to him to be, an unnecessary delay. He wished to inform the court of directors, that there were a great many proprietors exceeding ly interested about this investigation, and they would feel extremely obliged to the executive body, if they would hasten it as much as possible. He begged to say further, but without any reference to the decision of the court of directors, that whatever their decision might be, he held himself bound, from the knowledge he at present had of that case, to ask for papers on this subject, at a future period, in order to enable him to submit some motion to the court, with respect to the conduct of the government of Bombay.

The Chairman-" The case to which the hon. proprietor has alluded, has received the greatest attention. The papers we have had to examine are very voluminous, and the matter itself is extremely intricate, which may satisfactorily account for the delay complained of. I can, however, conscientiously say, that the utmost desire to sift the business to the bottom, in all its bearings, prevails amongst the directors, and I am in hopes the court will speedily come to a decision upon it."

Mr. Hume said he was happy to hear that the investigation was almost brought to a close, and as the subject was mentioned, he would take the liberty of impressing on the executive body that to which he had, at former courts, solicited their earnest attention; namely, that their military affairs should be placed in such a

train, so as persons seeking for justice should not suffer a delay of two, three, or four years. Their servants looked to the executive body for protection, and it ought not to be withheld from them. He would not say that the government of Bombay was partial, but when an individual was three times acquitted of charges preferred against him, and still continued suspended from his situation, justice was called for at the hands of the court of directors, who ought not to allow the business to remain unsettled, one moment longer than could possibly be avoided. He asked whether a delay of nine or ten months was not certainly too long, under such circumstances? Surely, if they had any regard for their servants, they would not permit military questions to lie over for one, two, or three years. He had hoped that a system would have been adopted, to prevent the recurrence of such an evil. He had reason to know, that the British government did not suffer any military question to remain three weeks unanswered, and he knew not why the Company should be less prompt and decisive. He stated, some years ago, in that court, that not one of their commercial accounts in Bengal was left unaudited six months after it was formed, and he expressed an opinion that their military references were treated with equal expedition. He was extremely sorry his experience now called on him to say, that he was grossly mistaken in his opinion, and that cases of extreme hardship had occurred, in consequence of delay. Such indeed was the system with the court of directors, that it was an age before a man could procure justice. Twelve months ago, the petition of Lieut. Col. Harris was placed in the hands of the directors. An individual, with whom he was unacquainted, shewed it to him, and on perusing it, he immediately said, the case was so strong that it could not be controverted, it must be set at rest immediately. It was not, however, yet determined. Was it right, after a service of twenty-two years, that an honorable individual should be treated with such neglect? He suggested, with great deferenee, the necessity of meeting all military references promptly. Justice in those, as well as in all other cases, depended upon the celerity of their proceedings.

Mr. Grant begged leave to offer a few observations on what had fallen from the hon. proprietor who had just spoken. When they considered the number of functionaries employed by government in the military department, and the very few whom the dictates of economy allowed to be engaged in that house, it could not be matter of surprise, that questions should be longer under consi

deration there than at the horse guards. As to what the hon. proprietor had stated, that, by a different modification of the military business in that house, questions of this kind would be more expeditiously decided, he (Mr. Grant) could not see that this would be the case at all because, let the alteration in preliminary matters be what it might, the directors themselves must still finally judge every question. That was a power which they could not delegate to others. If the matters were digested and laid before them, they must still take time to form their judgment; they could not suffer so important a branch of their functions to be exercised by any servant, however great his talents, and therefore, no further expedition would be produced, beyond what at present existed. It was most certain, that delay was to be regretted. But, as the whole of the time of the directors was employed in the transaction of the Company's affairs, it was to be presumed that they did not create any wilful or unnecessary delay; and if persons abroad involved themselves In situations of such complicated difficul. ty, as rendered it exceedingly hard to investigate them, it could not be a matter of surprise or wonder that considerable 'delay was occasioned. He conceived Lieut. Col. Harris's case to be of this description; and whatever the result might be, it called for a long and patient examination before gentlemen could make up their opinions upon it. The hon. proprietor impressed on the minds of gentlemen behind the bar, the necessity of administer ing prompt and impartial justice; he could not see what other motives could possibly influence them, beyond the desire of distributing strict justice. That object, and that only, they always had in view, and he hoped they did not acquit themselves with less propriety and correctness, because they took time to consider before they decided.-(Hear! hear!) The hon. proprietor, who introduced the subject, threw out an intimation, at the close of his speech, which had something like the character of an attempt at intimidation. He seemed to insinuate" if you, the directors, don't do so and so, I shall call for an inquiry." Now he was ro enemy to inquiry; he was always glad to promote investigation, when it was necessary. But he thought the observation of the hon. proprietor was perfectly uncalled for, and might therefore have been spared.

Mr. D. Kinnaird-" The hon. director has misunderstood me. Perhaps I did not make myself sufficiently intelligible. I think, however, I gave notice that whatever was the decision of the court of directors, whether favourable or unfavourable to Lieutenant Colonel Harris,

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I might feel it to be my duty to bring the conduct of the Bombay government under the notice of the court of proprietors. I say this because the question is very far frem being connected with the case of Colonel Harris alone its range is infinitely greater. The honorable director observes, that delay must necessarily ensue, when individuals abroad involve themselves in difficulty. I must be allowed to say, that the character of the government of Bombay is shaken to its foundation by their conduct on this occasion."

The Deputy Chairman rose to order, The hon. proprietor, he observed, had gone away from the question altogether, and was proceeding with the consideration of details not before the court. He was prejudging the case and aspersing the character of the government of Bombay, by inuendo in the beginning of his speech, and by direct assertion in the close of it. He hoped the hon. proprietor would spare such observations, which he could not consider otherwise than as extremely improper. He had told the court hypothetically, that it might be his duty to bring the conduct of the Bombay government before the proprietors; if he conceived it to be his duty to make such a motion, it would of course be the duty of the directors to attend to it, but it certainly was improper to introduce an ex parte statement on this occasion. The hon. proprietor possessed much good sense, and he therefore hoped he would not press the subject further.(Hear! hear !)

Mr. D. Kinnaird certainly did not intend to enter into any detail of this question, but he would take leave to say, that his feeling on the subject did not arise from any personal interest, which he might be supposed to cherish, with respect to the individual. He had given a sort of half-notice, which he would repeat, was entirely independent of what the result of Lieutenant Colonel Harris's case might be. If he had not risen to contradict the inference which an hon.. director had drawn from that notice, it might have operated to the prejudice of Colonel Harris; but the motion he would propose, whatever decision the court of directors might feel themselves called on to give. He was sure they would, and always did, act to the best of their judgment, but he thought some course ought to be adopted, on all military questions, which might expedite the business, and not leave individuals in a state of suspense for years. The Company had confidential servants, persons in high authority, in that house; and such subjects might be referred to one of them, to report his decided opinion thereon. This could be met by the assent or dissent of the direc

tors, and thus a ground would be formed for speedy investigation. However, he could only say, as he was not acquainted with the details, that his observations were meant to call the attention of the directors to this subject. The proposition he had just made, for the purpose of iusuring greater expedition, he saw elicited a smile from some of the practical gentlemen behind the bar. Perhaps his suggestion might be wrong; but this he would say, that, whatever their system was, it must be bad if it were attended with delay, which, in some of the noblest documents drawn up by their ancestors, was considered as almost tantamount to a denial of justice.

Mr. Hume begged to state, most explicity, that if his hon. friend had not given the notice which he had done, he would himself have given it; and he would further observe, that if his hon. friend did not follow up his notice very soon, it was his intention to bring the question under the consideration of the court. Cases, in the highest degree cruel, had arisen, from their governments abroad withholding from the court of directors the memorials of their servants, which ought to be sent to England by the earliest opportunity. By this means the executive body was prevented from doing justice. One case to which he intended to allude was that of Major Keeble. He drew up a memorial to the court of directors, but it was not sent home.

The Deputy Chairman, to order"The hon. proprietor is now going to another question. It is morally impossible to give an opinion on such a complicated military question. Its details, if gone into, will last you a full couple of hours, and if you take the outline which the hon. proprietor wishes to give, you will depart with certainly an imperfect, and probably an erroneous view of the case. I do not mean to say any thing uncivil to the hon. proprietor, but he undoubtedly takes up matters hastily and unadvisedly. He conceives that Mr. Macpherson is put aside and Mr. Keeble put forward (Hear! hear from Mr. Hume) or vice versa, and then, without farther consideration, he proclaims it to be a hard proceeding. An hon. proprietor (Mr. D. Kinnaird) observes that the case of Colonel Harris has been before the directors for nine or ten months, when it ought to have been decided in as many days. Yes, it might have been brought to a conclusion, in the manner in which he and his friend would have settled it: (Hear! hear !) but the question was, would they decide it properly? would they settle it on the right grounds? Nothing is so easy as to say, that a matter ought to be so, or ought not to be so, but where a case is intricate, and

voluminous documents are to be referred

to, it requires some pause, some consideration, before a conscientious décision can be made."

Mr. Hume wished to say a few words, for the purpose of obviating an observation which was made by the hon. director, and of shewing the mischief which arose from their governments abroad not sending home memorials. Major Keeble was injured in his health in India: he drew up a memorial, praying to be sent home, which was done he afterwards came to the directors for leave to return; they went to the board of control, who immediately said, "No, we will not consent, we have not received his memo, rial." Here was great injury done to an individual from the neglect of the government abroad. He therefore contended that the system should be immediately altered. The court of directors, in this instance, were placed in a most awkward situation with respect to the board of control, in consequence of the memorial not having been sent home. Gentlemen objected to his round-about general observations, but he now came to a particular point, and he challenged any gentleman behind the bar to answer it.

The hon. W. F. Elphinstone observed, that the question was not now before the court.

Mr. D. Kinnaird-" My hon. friend and myself stand in a very awkward predicament. Having been stopped once or twice in the course of our observations, I fear it will be imagined that we are very troublesome. But permit me to state, that at a quarterly general court, above all others, it is the duty of the proprietors to start questions and introduce points, for elucidation, which they might not be ready to do, when a special court was called for a particular purpose. It is our interest not to have general courts called for particular purposes, if it can be avoided, where a few judicious questions may obviate the necessity of such a measure. I know that the gentlemen on the other side of the bar can have no feeling of jealousy on account of any observation that may fall from individuals on this side of it, and no imputation can be cast on them, if questions, started on the moment, are not immediately answered. They may not be competent, at the moment, to answer an interrogatory. At the same time, it is a fair presumption, as they have access to the same sources of information which suggest certain questions to proprietors, that their attention has been called to particular points, and that they would be ready to give information on them. I therefore submit it to the judgment of the proprietors, whether, when we now and then ask a few ques

tions, which are likely to prevent subjects being taken up more seriously, we do not render a benefit instead of creating an evil? I can assure the court it is not done for a vexatious purpose, but because we feel that it is as well to have information on particular points."

THE COMPANY'S TRADE. Mr. Hume said, he rose to give notice of his intention, at a future court, to bring under the consideration of the proprietors, the whole of the commercial transactions of the Company. This was a very large question, but in bringing it forward, he was desirous to state to the gentlemen within the bar, and also to those without it, that he had no wish to injure the Company, but, on the contrary, he felt most desirous that the Company's affairs should be carried on in as profitable a manner as possible. He might be asked by that court, why he ventured to bring forward such a question at present? and he felt himself bound, in the first instance, to state his reasons for adopting such a course. From every inquiry he could make, he had been induced to draw this conclusion, that the Company's commerce to Bengal, Madras, and Bombay, with the exception of a very few articles, was carrying on at a great loss; and if continued to be longer prosecuted on the present system, the Company would be obliged to call for assistance from the country, in order to enable them to proceed. He should now submit to the court one great cause which operated to place them in this situation. He held in his hand statements of all their commercial charges at Madras, which he would, when the proper time came, introduce to the court, as a most important document, to be controverted by their executive body, if possible. It purported to be the amount of expense incurred simply for salaries. From this it appeared, that the expense on an investment of ten lacs of pagodas, for salaries alone, was one lac eleven thousand pagodas, being ten per cent. on the investment for the year, which investment was about £400,000. This, coupJed with other expenses, which he would detail when he submitted his motion to the court, shewed that the Company now carried on their trade at a charge of twenty-five per cent. beyond what the private trader could procure the same articles for. He demanded the particular attention of the court to this question. He had in his possession a statement of their commercial expenses at the different presidencies under the Madras government, and he regretted to say, that on the amount of goods purchased at those respective stations, the salaries chargeable were extravagantly high. For instance, where on a

a certain station the goods purchased amounted to £5000, the salaries of officers were £2000 a year, perhaps £2,500, In the ceded districts the expense of the establishment was 324,000 pagodas, being thirty-seven and a half per cent. on the whole investiment. In other places it was ten, fourteen, and sixteen per cent., speaking of salaries only. Now, he asked if, under these circumstances, they could meet competition? Could they, when the private trader was driving on his trade on the lowest possible scale, hope to meet him in the market with any degree of success? He felt that this was a question of the greatest possible importance; that it was one which nearly coucerned the vital interests of the Company, and therefore could not be entertained too soon. The papers, on which he founded his statement, were in the power of the court of directors, who could point out his error if he were wrong. If they looked to the charges at the different stations in the ceded districts, they would find there was not one of them in which less than ten per cent. was paid for wages, and in some of them the salaries amounted to thirty per cent. But exclusive of wages, there was five per cent. commis'sion, factory charges seven and a half per cent., three and a half per cent. on buildings, together with the interest of money and various other items; so that they were carrying on a trade in those districts at an expense of thirty-six per cent. more than what the private trader was in the habit of paying. If the documents on which he made those statements were correct, which he submitted they were, it was clear that they were losing by their commerce instead of deriving a profit from it; and therefore, he conceived something ought to be done, and done speedily. In justice to the court of directors he must state, that, for the last six months they had had this question under consideration, and had made several reductions; but, if an alteration were not effected in the shipping and other departments, it would be impossible for the Company to meet the private merchant.

The Chairman- I hope the court will not separate under the impresssion that we are carrying on trade at a great loss. When there are many goods in the market, when it is glutted with certain articles, some loss must be sustained; but I will maintain, and I will prove, when the accounts are brought before the court, that the Company's commercial affairs have met with the greatest attention, that their expenses are formed on the scale of economy, and that the result of their trade, compared with that of individuals, is creditable to the gentlemen behind the bar and profitable to ourselves.~(Hear! hear 1)

MR. HUDLESTON.

Mr. Hume said, that seeing an hon. exdirector in his place, he was anxious to ask a question of the utmost importance. He hoped the hon. gentleman would feel, that in bringing this subject before the court, he acted with great reluctance; but the honor and welfare of the Company depended on their executive body holding a high and unimpeached character; and when that character was attacked in the person of an individual member, he trust. ed that no censure would attach to him for noticing the circumstance. It was not unknown to many gentlemen, both within and without the bar, that a charge

of the most serious nature ever brought against a public man, had been preferred against an hon. ex-director. It was one of the most extraordinary charges he had ever heard of, and he hoped the hon. gentleman would be able to repel it.(Cries of order!)

The Chairman-"The hon. proprietor is now attacking an individual, not on documents regularly laid before the court, but on certain printed statements, and I ask of him, and of the court, whether that be a direct and proper proceeding?"

Mr. Hume- I throw myself entirely on the court. It is gratuitously taken, that I mean to attack the hon. ex-director; I declare that my intention is misunderstood, I mean quite the contrary. I cannot agree in the sentiment of the hon. Chairman, that we have nothing to do with this business, because we have not printed documents before us. I, and many others, expected that the subject would be brought before the court in a regular manner this day. The hon. exdirector stands charged by a gentleman lately high in your service, with most improper conduct, and I hope some explanation will be afforded to the proprietors on this subject."—(Cries of order!)

Mr. S. Dixon said, he hoped nothing of this kind would be allowed to be brought forward on the present day. As the hon. ex-director, (with whom he was unacquainted, whose name he did not even know,) was likely to become a candidate, he hoped there was charity sufficient, in every man's breast, to prevent any unpleasant observations being made on the ere of an election, unless there was positive reason to suppose that the individual was condemned in the public mind. Such observations were calculated to do the hon. ex-director great injury. -part, after what had been said, he could not help feeling a prejudice on the subject, and perhaps others would imbibe a similar feeling. The business certainly deserved notice, but not in this way. It was one of the most serious circumstances that could befal a gentleman who was on

For his

the point of standing before his constituents. He hoped and trusted that the hon. ex-director would clear himself from the imputation, so improperly, he would not say cruelly, because he did not think his hon. friend would do a cruel action, cast upon his character. If this were a charge that ought to be elucidated before the day of election, he conceived that some notice ought to have been given to the hon. ex-director, that it was intended to be this day brought under the consideration of the court.-(Hear! hear!) -He was persuaded the hon. ex-director would feel the necessity for his own sake, and for the sake of the Company at large, explanation on this subject at a proper after what had passed, of offering some time, and he trusted that his hon. friend would perceive the propriety of foregoing any farther proceedings at present. The hon. ex-director might, through the medium of the newspapers, address his justification to the proprietors at large, or he might offer it in that court on another occasion. He hoped nothing more would be said about it now; but he thought that some notice ought to be taken of it between this day and the time of election. If the proprietors had known, that the subject was to be introduced this day, he was convinced there would have been a much fuller attendance. It rested entirely with the feelings of the hon. gentleman whether he would demand inquiry at the present moment. It struck him, however, that the court was taken by surprise, and that the gentleman accused was in some degree unprepared for a proceeding of this description. The proprietors had now a very serious matter to consider ; namely, whether, having heard thus far, they would stop where they were or go

farther?

Colonel Allan said, he, in common with the rest of the court, was completely taken by surprise on this occasion, He had however, yesterday received a letter from Colonel Wilks on this subject. It was a private letter, but with the permission of the court he would have it read, as well as a letter which it inclosed. The inclosure was a letter addressed by Colonel Wilks to the editor of the Quarterly Revlew, in answer to certain observations on the History of Mysore which were contained in that publication.

The letter from Colonel Wilks to Colonel Allan intimated, "that the inclosed draft of an answer to the observations which had appeared in the Quarterly Review had been submitted to Mr. Dallas, who had looked over the manuscript, part of which was written from his dictation. He (Colonel Wilks) had originally put in the name of the commander of the escort, but it was thought more adviseable to mention the individual merely by the de