be turned to it at some future period. This body had its agent in every parish, and its correspondent in every town. Their intentions might be good, but with such machinery, how easily might they be converted into a political machine, of the greatest mischief? The hon. baronet had told them, that all their precautions to put it down would be unavailing. He had said, "Abstain from all legislative measures: this nuisance, if nuisance it be, will speedily abate of itself. I have the authority of a clergyman, high in their confidence, to say, that they only want to raise a small sum, in order to give a contradiction to some taunt of Lord Liverpool." He did not know whether the hon. baronet, though he repeated, believed the story of his informant; but at any rate he must remind the hon. baronet that it was directly in the teeth of the proclamation published by the association itself. In that proclamation they declared it to be their intention to raise 40,000l. or 50,000l. a-year. Of this sum 5,000l. was to be employed in controlling or enlightening the public press of England. Another 5,000l., and they were very liberal in their votes, was to be applied to the preparing petitions to parliament. Now he hoped that the subscribers would demand a rigorous account of the expenditure of this money; for they ought to be informed that petitions to the house of commons cost nothing but the parchment on which they were written, and could be transmitted free of expense to any member whom they selected to present them.

Then part of it was to be expended in keeping an agent in England. Another 5,000l. in sending priests to North America, and another 5,000l. for the conversion of their haughty and heretical neighbours in England. If the contribution of one farthing a-piece from each catholic in Ireland enabled the association to raise such large sums, surely there was ground enough laid for the interference of the house. Was it not a fit subject for its jealousy, when it was found that it had instituted committees of finance, of grievance, and of education? The assumption of such powers was, in his opinion, inconsistent with public liberty, and ought therefore to be put down without delay. The house was accustomed to admire the popular part of its constitution, and justly; for the checks by which it was guarded were extremely wise. It held its deliberations under the will of the crown, which could be suspended by it at any moment. No such check existed upon the Catholic Association, which held its meetings in no definite place, and was free from all control as to their time or duration. The house never instituted a criminal prosecution without great precaution, and always with and by the consent of the crown, to which it previously sent an address. The house, too, always guarded against bearing down an individual by its weight; but no such scruple existed in the members of the Catholic Association; it was under no controul as to the prosecutions it instituted, and even went deliberately to create prejudices against the accused by distributing exparte statements of the evidence

to be produced against him. In the house they were not accustomed to vote away money to individuals without a committee being appointed to examine into his claims to remuneration. The Catholic Association, on the contrary, voted away money at will, without any restrictions, and thus arrogated to itself powers which were possessed by no other body in the country. What would be the consequence of establishing the principles on which it was founded?-the establishment of counter-associations in all directions, by individuals for their own protection. The country would in consequence be filled with dismay, confusion, and anarchy; for if parliament would not provide protection for individuals, it might be taken as a certain truth, that individuals would very soon provide it for themselves. It appeared therefore to him, both with reference to the political mischief and the corruption in the administration of justice which this association was calculated to create, that the house was bound to apply the remedy which his right hon. friend had that evening proposed. He had such an idea of the supremacy of the British parliament as to think that it would not require the triple military force predicted by the hon. baronet to carry it into effect. He had too good an idea of his Roman-catholic fellow-subjects to think that they would place themselves on account of it in opposition and defiance to the government; but be that as it might, he considered that sufficient had been shown to justify the government in applying the remedy which his right hon. friend had pointed out

to it. He hoped, therefore, that parliament would do its duty; and if it did, those who resisted its decrees must be responsible for their opposition to it. The right hon. gentleman then sat down by declaring his intention to vote for leave to bring in the bill, amid loud and general cheering.

Sir H. Parnell explained, and Mr. Denman defended the Association at some length; after which the house adjourned at half-past two o'clock.

House of Commons, Feb. 11.— On the motion of Sir George Clerk, the operation of the weights and measures bill, which was intended to take place on the 1st of May, was postponed until the 1st of January next, in consequence of some obstacles encountered by the commissioners for the arrangement of the proposed measure, in the construction of the necessary models.

On the motion of Mr. Canning, the adjourned debate upon the bill for amending the Irish law respecting unlawful associations in Ireland was resumed.

Mr. Grattan said, his object in rising was to do justice to the Catholic Association, which had been so maligned during the discussion of this bill. Every thing against that body had been said, but little in justification of its proceedings. All the violent speeches on one side had been quoted, but none of those of their opponents. When they had heard so much of the press of Dublin and the catholic clergy on the one side, they ought to be informed of the press of Dublin and an active portion of the protestant clergy on the other. The formation of the Ca

tholic Association had in fact arisen out of the vituperation of the latter party: he was not the advocate for the violence of the popular party, but the provocation which they had received ought to be remembered, as well as the original cause of the violence. They were in fact a counter-association, and instituted for purposes of self-defence, against the opprobrium and calumny which had been heaped upon them. They ought, at all events, to be heard by counsel before this bill was enacted. He declared himself a warm supporter of the protestant religion, which he denied required the aid of catholic exclusion for its defence. He strongly complained that the effect of coercive and restrictive measures in Ireland had always been to alienate the affection of the catholic from the state, and to split the protestant members of the community into detached parties, acrimoniously opposed to each other. He knew that many of the plots which were conjured up to disturb the peace of Ireland were the work of spies, who were formed, and necessarily formed, by the present system of police surveillance which the government had so long unfortunately supported. Of these police, on a late occasion, ten or twelve had been tried, and six or eight convicted of murder. The people of Ireland required such examples, for unfortunately they did too often want the benefit of a pure administration of justice. These acts he predicted would do no good to the peace of Ireland. What had resulted from the convention act, which was the parent of the proposed measure? Just

nothing; for it was evaded by the people; instead of producing peace, the rebellion raged through the land in five or six years afterwards, and that worse than rebellion, the union, followed quickly in its train. He detested these gagging bills, police measures, and military attendants for the execution of the law; they were calculated to alienate the transmission of British capital to stimulate the industry of the people. He repeated that a large portion of the press of Dublin teemed with the grossest abuse of the catholics and their priests-traitors and demagogues were the terms usually applied to them. The right hon. secretary for Ireland knew that such was the language of the Dublin Mail, the Antidote, the Star, and other papers of the Irish metropolis-papers, too, which while they were prosecuted by one part of the Irish government, were supported by another part. He altogether disapproved of the bill.

Mr. Maberly argued against the supposed efficacy of this measure for putting down the energies of the Roman-catholic body. He thought past experienceespecially after the admitted failure of the convention and secret society acts, admitted by the very introduction of this bill-should have taught ministers, that until the causes of discontent could be removed, they might put it down in one shape, but it would instantly rise in another. He had enjoyed some experience of the condition of Ireland during the last recess, and he could testify, that in those parts which he had visited there reigned the most perfect peace and the most submissive obedience to the laws. In

those

those parts which had for many years been distinguished for murder and commotion, all was quiet; rents were collected where they had never been collected before; leases were eagerly sought-an unfailing proof of returning order, since, in times of disturbance, the peasantry chose to trust rather to the chapter of accidents than burden themselves with the obligations of a lease. He gave ministers due credit for their measures; much good had arisen from the tithe commutation and the insurrection act, and a great deal more from the police act, which last, however, required great vigilance to prevent violence and abuses. But it was not to these or any other part of the ministerial policy that the tranquillity of Ireland could be attributed. Ireland was improving; she was happier, because she was more prosperous; the condition of the people was rising, and their morals rose with it. Agriculture, which was the basis of their wealth, was rising in prices, and English capital was rapidly flowing into the channels of Irish commerce. Some causes of irritation remained which had not been noticed. He particularly alluded to the Bible societiesthose crusades, as he might venture to call them, against the settled sentiments of morals and religion which prevailed among the low Irish. He had tracked their course through the counties, and he had observed agitations and tumult to be the uniform effect. With education on their lips, proselytism was the object hidden in their hearts, and they refrained from no measures, however detrimental to the public peace, to effect it. With the permission of

the house he would read a few characteristic passages from their own account of the Carlow Bible Society, a meeting of which took place a year or two ago. There was a strong disposition to theological controversy between the protestant and catholic clergy, and at this meeting three sufficient champions were appointed on each side, to try what was deemed to be one of the chief arguments in question between them. [Here follows a part of the discussion, as given by themselves]:

"Mr. M'Swinney.-I choose to personate a Socinian: how will you convince me, on your own principles, of the divinity of the Saviour. Meus Pater est major me-My Father is greater than I. How do you explain that?

"Mr. Pope. By fair legitimate reasoning. If the Redeemer be declared God in very many passages, as I have shewn this morning that he is, then we must look for some explanation of the passages that will not militate against them. I inquire, Is there any sense in which the Saviour was inferior to the Father, without compromising his essential divinity? The answer is obvious-in his mediatorial office, and in his human nature. This, then, is the explanation I would give-Christ, while one with the Father and equal to him in his Godhead, is inferior to the Father in his mediatorial capacity, and in his manhood,

"Mr. M'Swinney replied-'That will not do, Sir-you have proved nothing-you have given an explanation that may satisfy yourself of there being nothing in the passage inconsistent with the equality of Christ with the Father, considered as to his divine nature.

"Mr. Pope.-I don't know what the gentleman means by proving nothing.'

"Mr. M'Swinney.-'The Father is greater than me.' You have not, sir, explained this text so as to satisfy a Socinian, though you spoke for three hours and a half, and during your speech you wandered considerably from the subject.

"Mr. Pope.-I certainly did speak for a long period, but I deny that I did wander from the subject. (This was followed by loud cries of No, no, answer the question now.')

"Mr. Daly. - Mr. Pope has answered the question, and I appeal to you all if this is not fair play. Should not he answer the question now? You are all honest Irish fellows, and I am sure like fair play.

"Mr. M'Swinney.-I will refer it to the Chairman, whether you have answered the question or

not.

"Colonel Rochford. I must decline pronouncing any opinion on the subject.

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"A gentleman, noticing the disposition to riot, proposed to adjourn the meeting. The scene of tumult which followed this proposition lasted for several minutes. The Chairman endeavoured to calm the meeting. The Rev. Mr. Shaw endeavoured to address them; but it was impossible to catch a word from them. It appeared to be the intention of the mob, not only to prevent the Rev. gentleman from being heard, but to proceed to acts of personal violence towards the protestant clergy on the platform. With this view, the temporary barriers were thrown down, several of the can

dles extinguished, and a scene of riot and confusion took place, at once disgusting and disgraceful. The doors of the chapel had been closed, and the violent knockings and yells of those without contributed not a little to the horror of the scene. Mr. Bathurst, the officer commanding the police, intimated to the clergy of the established church, that, from information which he possessed and his own personal observation, he could not answer for their lives, unless they immediately retired. The Rev. Messrs. Wingfield, Daly, Pope, and Jameson, were obliged to scale a wall eight feet high, and escaped the attacks and insults of an infuriate rabble.

"Mr. Clowry asked if the meeting was adjourned, and for what period.

"Chairman.-The meeting is adjourned sine die.

-

"Mr. Clowry. Then I am quite satisfied for the present.

"The Rev. Mr. O'Connel then ascended the pulpit, from whence the Rev. gentleman gave thanks to God for the triumph which had been achieved, and also returned thanks to Colonel Rochford for the manner in which he had contributed to it."

Since the institution of the Association, however, these heats and animosities were given up by the catholic clergy. They trusted their political interests to that body, and hence their readiness in contributing to the rent. He could assure the house, on his own experience, that the entire confidence of the Irish Romancatholics was with the Association. Should this measure prevail as a law, the hopes of obtaining redress by constitutional means would be

at