át an end, and no man could answer for the extent or mischief of the consequences. While emancipation was withheld, they were not justified in resorting to measures of such severity, and therefore he would oppose this throughout.

Sir N. Colthurst said, that the Catholic Association was at variance with the laws and the constitution. The power of that body was alarming; their proceedings endangered the public tranquillity; they interfered with the arrangements of government with the administration; they affected a domination even in the conduct of affairs of private gentlemen. A person of great respectability had set his face against the collection of the catholic rent upon his estate. He received the following letter from the priest of the parish: "Dear Sir,-A report is current here, that you have interfered to prevent your tenants from paying contributions to the catholic rent. May I, in the most respectful manner possible, request that you will give me leave to contradict, in the most positive way, a report so unworthy of you, as I am obliged, in the course of a few days, to render an account of those persons who are opposed to the collection of the rent." He could not but view such proceedings with alarm, and he trusted in the wisdom of government, which had done so much of late for the peace and welfare of Ireland, to put down the Association.

Colonel Davies would vote for the measure, if he thought the public safety required it, but he did not-he said, the catholics could not obtain civil justice in Ireland, and they looked to the Association to pursue it for them.

Mr. Dogherty said, that in his opinion the Catholic Association which now existed in Ireland, and had been so long carried on, was wholly irreconcileable with the spirit of the constitution. The alarm which that association had created in Ireland was deep, general, and, in his mind, just. It was not confined to any particular class of people; it pervaded the whole of the protestant body generally, and was not felt only by orangemen, nor by those who directly opposed the catholics alone, but by every man of sober, rational, and well-regulated mind, who, without any feeling of party, was satisfied that there existed just grounds for alarm in the proceedings of this Association. No one could doubt that this opinion was perfectly natural, nor that the direct tendency of the Association was calculated, by keeping alive the spirit of discontent, and by holding up to view angry and exaggerated representations of the state of the laws, to irritate the people against the government. Any man acquainted with the history of Ireland must know, that one of the greatest evils which had in all late times beset that country, had been the existence of delegated bodies. England, the evil complained of, had been riotous mob-meetings, and then the standing laws in each country were found to be pointed against the evils which had been peculiar to each. The act of Charles II. was framed for the suppression of mobs in Ireland, while the laws for Ireland had been passed for putting down illegal associations, which were to the same extent mischievous and fatal to the public peace. Of all

In

the

the assemblies which had ever yet been seen in Ireland, none had ever yet gone the length of the Catholic Association. It had been said that the house was as yet without any information as to the fact of the existence of the Catholic Association, and complaint had been made that his Majesty's ministers had not laid before the house such particulars as should enable it to form a proper opinion on the subject. In one respect at least this was unfounded, for the hon. member for Northampton (Captain Maberly) had said that he was present at one of the sittings of the Association in Dublin, and that he had observed no intemperence in the language of the speakers. All that he (Mr. Dogherty) could say on this was, that the hon. member must have been peculiarly fortunate. He (Mr. Dogherty) had read attentively all the debates of the Association in the papers which were considered its organs, from its commencement to the present time, and he would say that no body before this had ever presumed so far to violate public decorum, or to put forth representations of so inflammatory a nature. What was the tendency of these representations, if not to excite discontent? What was the intention of the assembly, but to frighten the government into a compliance with their demands? Was it by fair argument, or was it by intimidation, that they sought to compass their designs? Such an assembly would not be tolerated in England for one week; this, at least, he thought no one would deny. If, then, it would be dangerous in England, he begged leave to ask whether it would not be obviously far more dangerous

He

in Ireland. The very declarations of the assembly were directed to that which they well knew to be the state of the people, and to that irascibility which they sedulously endeavoured to promote. The hon. member then quoted a passage from one of Mr. Shiel's speeches at a meeting of the Catholic Association, in proof of the inflammatory style which was used by the orators of that body. proceeded to say, that frequent allusions had been made to what was assumed to be the partial administration of justice in Ireland. In all the eulogiums which had been pronounced on the British constitution, there was no feature more noble than the fair and impartial administration of its laws. He was extremely anxious that all persons, all classes of the community, should partake of this advantage, and that none should be debarred from it. He would say, and the experience of some years entitled him to say it, without hesitation, that the catholics of Ireland did enjoy the fullest and fairest administration of justice. He stated this without the fear of contradiction from any Irish member, that the courts of justice were equally open to the rich and the poor, without distinction of religious sentiments. 'He was the more anxious to dwell upon this subject, on account of the imputations which had been cast upon the Irish courts of justice. The catholic body had, two years ago, intrusted their petition to the able and eloquent member for Winchelsea (Mr. Brougham.) Upon that occasion the hon. and learned member said, that he was sent into the house briefless, and that facts there were none. Upon

the

the present occasion, if he should stop here, the hon. and learned members might say, that his (Mr. Dogherty's) statement was of the same description. He would therefore proceed from assertion to proof. The minutes of the evidence given before the committee appointed for inquiring into the state of Ireland, had been laid on the table of the house, and would in a few days be in the hands of all the members. From this evidence he should shortly state some few points. In the first place, Mr. Blackburn, a gentleman of many years' experience, and who enjoyed a high character for intelligence and uprightness of conduct, had been examined. He was asked how far, in his opinion, the administration of justice in Ireland was pure or not. His answer was, that he believed justice was purely administered. The next witness was Mr. Bennet, who had been a King's counsel for 18 years, and whose experience was very extensive. He coincided entirely with the opinions expressed by Mr. Blackburn. The third person examined was a gentleman of the greatest respectability, and who had held a high judicial office. Mr. Justice Day was requested to answer, whether, from the observation he had made, he believed that the people had as much confidence in the administration of justice in Ireland, as in this country; and this question was explained as not referring to the superior courts of justice, but to the local administrations and to the juries of which they were composed. Mr. Justice Day answered, that in his opinion justice was every-where fairly administered in Ireland. On the circuits

before him, the juries were fairly composed of both catholics and protestants, and in equal proportions. The grand juries generally contained a majority of protestants, because the catholic gentlemen who were eligible to serve on them bore only a small proportion to the protestants of the same class. The hon. member begged to call the attention of the gallant colonel (Davies) to this fact, because it would serve to explain a circumstance to which he had alluded respecting the small proportion of catholics who held offices in Ireland. Mr. Justice Day was then asked whether he thought that catholics and protestants acted together in so much of the administration of justice as was intrusted to them, impartially, and without reference to either of their religious sentiments. "Oh! Lord," replied the judge, "religion never enters into their minds at all; nor does it infect their opinions." He was asked again whether this observation applied to every part of Ireland, and his answer was, that he never yet had the misfortune to meet with any mixture of religious opinion which had precluded the administration of justice. "God grant," continued the hon. member," that no future judge may have to say, that his experience has led to a different conviction; but this is, I fear, too likely to happen, if the Catholic Association should be allowed to continue." He would ask the house, whether they thought that a public body like this Association ought to be allowed to exist ?— whether, in the prevailing fashion of the day, a joint stock company, for the purpose of carrying on prosecutions, should be per

were not appointed, but adopted by the catholic population; while, in fact, they were for all mischievous and bad purposes as much representatives as if they had been actually appointed. He, for one, would rather, if this Association must exist, that the security of election should be placed round them. The catholic committee was appointed in this way, but that had been decided to be illegal; if that was not permitted, à fortiori, the present association ought not to continue. Mr. Dunn, who had been a member, not of the Catholic Association, but of the Catholic Committee, said, in his evidence before the committee, that he disapproved of many of the proceedings of the Association, on account of their intemperance; and he believed that feeling to be very general. He (Mr. Dogherty) believed so too, and that every dispassionate catholic must see the danger and inexpediency of countenancing the operations of the Catholic Association. Retired and private individuals were afraid to enter into a contest with the Association, which had in many instances acted most tyrannically. But it was said, that though the Catholic Association could not be defended on legal and constitutional principles, yet they had done something which entitled them to favourable considerations-namely, that they had tranquillized Ireland. That Ireland was tranquil, he knew; and he likewise knew that the Association existed; but he could not discover any immediate connexion between the two facts. In his opinion, it had been the wise and temperate measures of the illustrious nobleman at the

head of the Irish government, that had won the country to tranquillity. But what did the argument that the Association had restored tranquillity to Ireland lead to? Suppose that emancipation should not be granted to the catholics-would it be suffered that the Association should have it in their power to excite domestic troubles? Were the members of that body to be allowed to tell the people of Ireland, that six millions of united men could not be subdued-that they would find in every field a redoubt, in every mount a fortress of strength, and that they would shake off their oppressors like "dew-drops from the lion's mane?"

Mr. Dominick Browne was of opinion, that whatever alarm the Catholic Association had created in this country, it had done more to advance the catholic cause than any thing which had taken place during the last twenty years. He did not think that any danger would be removed by passing the bill. The danger was not in the Association in itself, but because it represented the grievances of the people of Ireland. If the bill should pass, it would only have the effect of changing the shape of the danger. He did not mean to say that the people of Ireland would be driven to rebellion. He knew, from his own observation, that the Roman-catholics, from the highest of the body down to the meanest peasant, were perfectly convinced that the strength of their cause consisted in their submission to the will of parliament. He was speaking only of the present moment; but disappointment must produce disaffection, and dissaffection in Ireland

would