Answer. No, sir; he ran about twenty steps before he fell.

Question. When did the pistol explode?

Answer. Immediately after Bates shot.

Question. Before he ran?

Answer. Before he started to run; and if you ask me the conclusion I would say that the man had the pistol in his hand before Bates shot him.

By Mr. STEVENSON :

Question. Was that the testimony of one of the alleged Ku-Klux?
Answer. No, sir.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Question. Was it the testimony of the man with Hampton?

Answer. Yes, sir; one of his friends.

By Mr. VAN TRUMP:

Question Were you one of the commissioners appointed to count the vote in 1870 ? Answer. I was one of the commissioners of election, and it was a part of the duties devolving upon me by the election laws.

Question. Who has the appointment of such commissioners?

Answer. The governor, I presume.

Question. Who were the other commissioners, and what were their politics, and what was then and what are now your politics?

Answer. Of the other two one was William McGill Fleming, a republican, and the other, Bass Weaver, a colored man and a republican.

Question. You have stated your politics?

Answer. They were then as they are now.

Question. Did you meet as a board to discharge your duties under the law?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Were the votes fairly counted and reported to the State board of canvassers?

Answer. I think not, sir.

Question. Why?

Answer. William McGill Fleming made a report which I demurred to, and I sent in a minority report.

Question. Give us the particulars of all that transaction.

Answer. Then I must refresh my memory.

By Mr. STEVENSON:

Question. Are not those reports documents-both his and yours?

Answer. Yes, sir; they went to Columbia. I have a newspaper in my pocket giving a count of this election. (Producing a newspaper.)

By Mr. VAN TRUMP:

Question. Is that a correct abstract of the votes?

Answer. Yes, sir; pretty much as I understood it, and as it was generally understood. I had also intended to get a copy of the republican paper which contains the returns. (It is as follows :)

Election returns of Spartanburgh County for 1870-Continued.

The WITNESS. The names of reform candidates in the above table are in italics. It will be seen that the reform majorities are as follows: for governor, 718; for lieutenant, governor, 840; for Congress, 754; for legislature, 787; for county commissioners, 775; probate judge, 623; school commissioner, 774.

Question. Were the votes fairly counted and reported to the State board of canvassers?

Answer. I thought Mr. Fleming, our chairman, did not make a correct report, and I refused to sign it. I suppose that will be giving it as it took place; that was the first part of it. He made a report which I refused to sign, believing it not correct. I made a minority report.

Question. Were both sent to the State canvassers?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Do you desire to state anything else in reply to that question?

Answer. You see there were three commissioners. The third one united with Mr. Fleming. He was a negro man of some intelligence, but of course not educated. He united with Fleming in his report.

Question. Had Fleming, according to your observation, a large influence over him, or otherwise?

Answer. I think he could influence him, sir, in a way in which I could not.
Question. Do you know whether he was influenced?

Answer. I do not. I have no right to say so here. I might have had my private idea, but I have no right to say so, because he is a fellow of some natural ability, and, I would think, had a will of his own.

1

Question. State how long a time was occupied or consumed in making the count, and whether the boxes were guarded; and, if so, by whom and how, and what propositions were made by democrats to secure a fair count, and whether they were refused or accepted.

Answer. I will submit and read to you a paper, as part of my testimony, in answer to your question. This was in answer to this man when they charged tampering with

the boxes.

By the CHAIRMAN :

Question. It would be better to have the accusation also, in order to make it intelligible.

Answer. It was a charge made by the defeated republican candidates that the reform party had tampered with the boxes.

By Mr. VAN TRUMP :

Question. Now, give us all the facts.

Answer. That was done according to what the law was. I cannot recollect what time it was. The law, I think, made it three days, but I cannot recollect.

Question. One part of the question is as to what propositions were made by the democrats to have the boxes guarded, and was that proposition accepted or refused by the republicans?

Answer. Here is what I say in this paper:

"After the boxes had been returned to the commissioners by the managers of election, they were guarded by a committee appointed by the reform party, with the knowledge and consent of the commissioners, and by their invitation."

I give that as an answer to the question.

Question. I will put the question again. State how long a time was occupied and consumed in counting, and whether the boxes were guarded, by whom and how, and what propositions were made by democrats to secure a fair count, and whether they were refused or accepted.

Answer. I do not remember how long. Three days, I think, was the time appointed by law, and we conformed to the law.

Question. Did you make a minority report, and was it filed or withheld by the chairman ?

Answer. I heard a rumor. A person told me that. I made a report and sent it by the chairman, Mr. Fleming himself.

Question. You intended to go to Columbia?

Answer. Yes, sir; I said take mine and present it with yonrs.

Question. Did he present it?

Answer. They got it in Columbia-it was presented.

Question. Within time?

Answer. Yes, sir, I think in sufficient time, although I have heard some things. You have evidently some information which I only know by hearsay; that is, I heard that he had retained it for a while until he was persuaded by urgent persuasion or urging to give it to the secretary of state.

Question. Had you not reason to believe, and do you not believe, that before the votes were counted certain members of the republican party intended to interfere improperly with the boxes?

Answer. I do not think I could say yes to that question. I hardly know what my impressions were before.

Question. Did you not communicate your fears to several gentlemen (Mr. Bomar and others) on this subject, and advise them to guard the boxes?

Answer. I advised them to guard the boxes, but I do not remember giving them any reason. They may have come to that conclusion. I said put your guard upon your boxes as well as ours. I spoke as though speaking in an official character from the republican party.

Question. Had you guards on the boxes?

Answer. No, sir; there were no guards then, but it was expected there would beno, it was not, ei her, because they were in our charge.

Question. Then there were neither republican guards nor democratic guards expected? Answer. No, sir, there were not.

Question. In communicating to gentlemen on this subject, and saying that they ought to have the boxes guarded, did you not state your fears that they would be improperly_interfered with by the republicans?

Answer. I do not remember that. I recommended them to have the boxes guarded so as to rather clear us of any suspicion, for I identified myself with the others, although I might have had my own reasons for telling them, but I do not remember of having said so.

Question. State what declarations were made or acts done by any commissioners or other persons which caused you to suggest a guard on the boxes?

Answer. I cannot state anything of that, either, but I might have had impressions but no acts that I could testify to of others. There might have been impressions on my mind.

Question. Have you no recollection of any fact or thing or words said which induced you to suggest to members of the opposite party that they ought to have guards over these boxes?

Answer. I do not remember, sir; but I have no doubt that I was impressed with something. One object I had in view was to clear both parties, so that there could be no room for any objection to either party.

Question. Did you suggest to the republicans that they ought to put guards around the boxes?

Answer. No, sir; because a republican, the chairman of the committee, had them in charge.

Question. That was Mr. Fleming himself?

Answer. Yes, sir; and I suggested it as fairness to all. I think that was the princi pal motive that prompted me.

Question. Can you not call to mind any fact or anything or any indication by any body belonging to the republican party which induced you to go to these men and make that suggestion?

Answer. I do not think I stated any.

Question. Whether you stated it or not, cannot you now recall to your mind some fact or reason why you did it?

Answer. I did it that there should be an evident fairness, that they could not accuse us. Although I may have had other reasons, I do not remember of giving any other reason but that.

Question. I do not ask whether you gave any other reason. Are you willing to state that there was no other reason except that general reason?

Answer. I hardly think the question is a fair one, because it would be only giving an impression that I might have and it might be wrong; nor do I recollect what prompted it except that alone.

Question. Do you say it was an impression only which you had, in the total absence of any word or thing said or done by republicans?

Answer. No, sir, I did not say that.

Question. Then bring your recollection to some of these facts or declarations.

Answer. Well, sir, to be plain, I had not then sufficient confidence. I was responsible as well as others, and I had not perfect confidence in how they might be guarded. Question. Confidence in whom?

Answer. In my colleagues.

Question. That is, Mr. Fleming and the negro?

Answer. Yes, sir; I would rather not say that, but you force me, although I am unwilling to say it. I felt responsible, of course, as one. I had not perfect confidence in my colleagues, Fleming and Weaver.

Question. Did not Fleming make some declaration that induced you to have that impression?

Answer. No, sir; I recollect nothing of the kind. I heard declarations made months ago, before the election, by him, probably, and other men, that they were obliged to carry this election; but in the most quiet times, and twenty years ago, without the least corruption, I have heard that kind of expression, that we must carry this election. Question. Did you hear Fleming say we must carry this election? Answer. I heard the expression used by republicans.

Question. Did they say how?

Answer. No, sir.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Question. And only by republicans?

Answer. I think so; just at that time I was not apt to hear any of the other side speak. I was not in very good odor with them at that time, and did not hear the remarks.

By Mr. VAN TRUMP:

Question. Did you hear quite a number of the republicans make that declaration before the election ?

Answer. Yes, sir; but I mention that as nothing more than the expression used at all elections: We must do so and so.

Question. Did they say that in a county where there was a thousand majority against them?

Answer. There is a thousand majority, I have heard. They said, however, that they did not believe there was any such majority.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Question. Did the expression refer to the county or the State at large? Was the expression, "we must carry this election ?"

Answer. Both, sir; both, sir. I heard it used in reference to the State and the county.

By Mr. VAN TRUMP:

Question. Do you not believe that the boxes or some of them were changed or altered before the counting was done ?

Answer. I think this will be an answer: The boxes were sealed over, and when opened by the commissioners seemed to be in perfect order and undisturbed, all except one box, which had the paper over the lock torn. I have asserted, and therefore I must have been of the opinion, that they were not touched.

Question. What box was that?

Answer. Glen Springs, where the republicans had the majority.

Question. Was that the one Mr. Genobles brought to town?

Answer. I do not remember that; therefore my answer would be, I had no reason to suppose they were touched before, unless the Glen Springs box, because I so said here in this, (exhibiting a paper.) This is a copy of an affidavit of mine.

Question. State all you know or have heard about any plan of the chairman of the county canvassers or others to declare the republican ticket elected, or to change the votes so as to secure such a result.

Answer. I have heard him express no plan. I only know the results might have brought me to that conclusion; but I know of no plan entered into.

Question. Do you know whether it did or did not bring you to that conclusion? Answer. No, sir; because it was by a different process he made the report he did. The boxes might never have been touched, for aught I know.

Question. Have not the extravagant provisions and the character of the election laws, the arming and the full equipment of the negro militia in the very face of a refusal of arms to an organization of the white people, the appointment of dishonest, ignorant, and wholly inefficient and incompetent officials created and been the primary and exciting cause of nearly all the difficulties and disturbances in this county? Answer. I could answer to the first portion of that question, that the election laws were very odious. and calculated to do so.

Question. How as to the arming of the militia ?

Answer. The arming of the militia was very unsatisfactory to the democratic party. Question. To the white people?

Answer. Yes, sir, to the white people; but those that gave utterance to it were generally democrats; in fact, all democrats.

Question. I suppose the republicans did not complain much?

Answer. No, sir; it was very unsatisfactory, the idea of putting arms in the hands of negroes.

Question. State whether that was not among the leading and primary causes ?

Answer. I think I may with propriety answer-I must answer, "yes," to all that long question. I do think so.

Question. Is there any difficulty or obstruction to the enforcement of the law against persons known to have violated it?

Answer. I cannot answer that. The only way I could answer is by pointing to the course I have pursued myself. There has never been an attempt made to bring them to punishment.

Question. Is there any difficulty or obstruction in the enforcement of the law against persons known to have violated the law?

Answer. A great many persons are of opinion that intimidation prevents the other party from attempting any steps. I must give both sides.

Question. I am asking your opinion?

Answer. I think that the feeling is among the people that they are afraid to prosecute these persons; both these and others.

Question. Then is there any difficulty in enforcing the law against persons known to have committed crimes?

Answer. If there is, it is because those whose rights have been violated are afraid to complain.

Question. That is the only obstruction ?

Answer. Yes, sir, if that is an obstruction; you can hardly call that an obstruction unless it interferes with something attempted.

By the CHAIRMAN:

Question. Is it not a pretty effectual obstacle ?

Answer. Yes, sir, it is, I think.

By Mr. VAN TRUMP:

Question. Did you not, as an officer of the law, on a recent occasion, go to Batesville in this county and arrest several persons charged with being Ku-Klux without any difficulty whatever?

Answer. I did. I felt myself as safe as in this room. I may appear to be inconsistent, but I am giving facts as they appeared to me. I think intimidation prevented some, but when it came upon me to act I was not afraid and had no dread.

Question. You think intimidation prevented some parties who had been injured from applying for redress through the civil law?

Answer. Yes, sir.

Question. Have you ever found any difficulty in enforcing the law as a trial justice since you have been in office?

Answer. Never, sir; I have had very little to do. I have had seven or eight criminal cases of negroes, and when they came before me I would generally leave them in the room for a few minutes together to settle it, and consequently I have had no litigation between them.