competitive examination, or through an open competitive examination and the selection of one of the highest three eligibles.

Later on, postmasters were put under the provisions of the Retirement Act. The act of June 25, 1938, eliminated the term of the post

master.

In other words, he is serving without term. The 4-year term was abolished.

So that at the present time we find the postmasters in these offices appointed without term. They are subject to the provisions of the Retirement Act and are also subject to the provisions of the Hatch Act.

The CHAIRMAN. May I ask one question at that point, so that we may follow you clearly?

Postmaster General DONALDSON. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Is the effect of this reorganization plan a complete repeal of the 1938 act of Congress? What part of the 1938 act would remain in force if this plan goes into effect?

Postmaster General DONALDSON. Mr. Chairman, I have Mr. Frank, the Solicitor of the Post Office Department, here, who may want to answer that, but I will answer it as to my understanding.

It would only repeal that part of the act of 1938 that applies to confirmation by the Senate.

The CHAIRMAN. What I wanted to determine is what part of the law is going to be left, and what act of Congress, is going to be changed. The last expression of Congress, as to how postmasters should be selected, was in 1938.

Postmaster General DONALDSON. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. I want to get clearly for the record, either from you or the chief counsel for your Department, the exact impact that this reorganization plan has upon the 1938 act, what parts the plan repeals and what parts of it are retained.

Postmaster General DONALDSON. I will give you my understanding of it, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee: That all this reorganization plan does with reference to the act of June 25, 1938, is to eliminate that provision in the act that requires confirmation of the postmasters by the Senate. It would provide that postmasters be appointed either through a promotion of someone in the vacancy office, provided he qualified in a noncompetitive test, or the holding of an examination and making the selection from one of the highest three eligibles. And the only thing eliminated from the existing law would be the requirement that they be confirmed by the Senate.

The CHAIRMAN. There is another difference, in that you make the appointment of postmasters, or the Postmaster General actually makes the appointment instead of the President making the appoint

ment.

Postmaster General DONALDSON. Yes, Mr. Chairman. The Postmaster General now appoints postmasters of all fourth-class offices. The CHAIRMAN. He actually makes a decision with respect to the appointment of postmasters in most all the other offices, does he not? Postmaster General DONALDSON. Yes; he does.

The CHAIRMAN. He actually makes the decision, and the President confirms it, and the name is sent down to the Senate for confirmation. Postmaster General DONALDSON. You are right, Mr. Chairman. The nomination list that goes to the Senate is prepared in the Post Office

Department on the proper form, which is transmitted to the President, and by the President to the Senate.

But I can see nothing in this reorganization plan that changes anything in existing law except eliminating the necessity of confirmation by the Senate of Presidential postmasters.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, at that point, can you tell us how that elimination of Senate confirmation will make the Post Office Department more efficient or will produce any economies?

Those are the two principal objectives of the Reorganization Act. Postmaster General DONALDSON. Mr. Chairman, I think I can answer that only in this way. Of course, you know, and the members of the committee know, that however postmasters may be appointed, the law fixes their salaries, so that there can be no reduction in the expenditures so far as their salaries are concerned. I think there can be this saving, in that there would be a greater tendency to promote people in the postal service to the position of postmaster, and perhaps thereby increase the morale in the postal service.

The CHAIRMAN. May I ask you at that point: Will you have any greater authority, power, or discretion to promote people in the service than you have under existing law?

Postmaster General DONALDSON. I think we would follow it more closely.

The interference that you might have now, Mr. Chairman, would be eliminated. We have appointed in the last 16 or 18 years a great many service postmasters, as you know, and that would be accelerated, I

think.

As a matter of fact, I would like to read you a list of some of the larger offices where we have service postmasters for your record. That is, where the postmasters came up through the ranks and have been appointed to the position of postmaster: Atlanta, Ga.; Baltimore, Md.; Boston, Mass.; Buffalo, N. Y.; Cleveland, Ohio; Dayton, Ohio; Detroit, Mich.; Flushing, N. Y.; Fort Worth, Tex.; Grand Rapids, Mich.; Honolulu, Hawaii; Houston, Tex.; Indianapolis, Ind.; Memphis, Tenn.; Miami, Fla.; Nashville, Tenn.; Pasadena, Calif.; Philadelphia, Pa.; Pittsburgh, Pa.; Portland, Maine; Providence, R. I.; Tampa, Fla.; Toledo, Ohio; Trenton, N. J.; Washington, D. C.; and Worcester, Mass.

Now, I asked one of the officials in the Division of Postmasters to prepare me a list of service appointments from memory, without checking the files.

It would require an enormous amount of time to go through all of the files and determine service postmasters.

But from the memory of the employees in the various sections of that Division, they came up with a list of 383 service postmasters that they could remember.

The CHAIRMAN. General, if you care to, the committee would be glad to have you submit the number, after you have checked it accurately, for the record.

I do not think you need to list the post offices. We would not require that.

But when you have checked the number accurately, you could submit for the record the number of service postmasters that came up through the ranks and received their appointments.

Postmaster General DONALDSON. I would be glad to do that.

(The information referred to follows:)

The number of service postmasters at offices of the first, second, and third classes is 1,231.

Senator DwORSHAK. Are those confined to the larger post offices? Postmaster General DONALDSON. No; they are not confined to the larger offices. As a matter of fact, there are more career postmasters in the smaller offices than there are in the larger ones.

I was merely trying to point out that it was not limited to the large offices, but extended to the large offices as well.

Senator DWORSHAK. There may be some reasons for picking career men in the larger post offices, because naturally a man without any experience in postal work could not serve efficiently in those large offices.

Postmaster General DONALDSON. Well, it has been to the contrary, Senator, for the reason that the salary in the larger offices is so much greater than it is in the smaller offices, and therefore more incentive for somebody from the outside to aspire to be postmaster.

And I was just trying to point out, notwithstanding that fact, that we have quite a lot of service postmasters in these offices where the salary is very high.

The CHAIRMAN. General, since you do not have a prepared statement, if you do not mind these interruptions, I thought as a point was presented we could make the record on that point very well as we go along, if it does not interfere with the chronology of your presentation. Is it all right with you that we ask these questions?

Postmaster General DONALDSON. Certainly, Mr. Chairman.
The CHAIRMAN. Senator Smith?

Senator SMITH. General Donaldson, as I understand it, there are two ways by which a postmaster can be appointed.

Who determines which way will be followed, and how is that determination made?

Postmaster General DONALDSON. When a vacancy occurs in a post office, the Post Office Department ordinarily makes a check of the records of the supervisors or officials of the post office to see whether or not someone in there would merit the promotion.

But, in the final analysis, some adviser is consulted as to whether or not he prefers that someone be promoted, or whether he prefers an open competitive examination.

By the way, tomorrow ends my forty-fourth year in the Post Office, and as far back as I can remember it has been the practice of both political parties to consult advisers in the appointment of postmasters. So, if a vacancy occurs in any particular office, this adviser is first consulted as to whether or not he prefers to recommend the promotion of somebody in the office, and we ordinarily will furnish him with the name of some capable employee who can be promoted; or an open competitive examination, in which all eligibles can compete. We usually follow his recommendation.

Senator SMITH. Would that include those already in service? Would they be permitted to take the examination even though they were in the service?

Postmaster General DONALDSON. Yes; that is right. If an open competitive examination is held, those in the service can compete as well as those outside the service. And then, when the eligible register

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is supplied by the Civil Service Commission, the highest three eligibles, the names of them, are submitted to this adviser for his comment, which in fact is tantamount to a recommendation in a way.

I might point out that the consultation of advisers has been of little use, so to speak, in late years, because it narrows it down to three people, and under the law you must recognize the veteran's preference, and if a veteran is at the head of a list he cannot be passed by a nonveteran without giving some reason to disqualify the veteran; not a reason to better qualify the nonveteran, but a reason for disqualifying the veteran. And that can rarely be done.

So, it is down to the point where there is so little leeway that the adviser can have in the matter that it seems to me there is less and less use for the confirmation.

In other words, it has been my experience over the years that where we have these advisers-and, ordinarily, it is the Congressman in his own district-it usually results that consulting the adviser means creating maybe 20 enemies and 1 ingrate for the adviser.

So, as I see the picture today, it would seem to me like it would be much better to eliminate the confirmation and get away from so much of this advising, because there is so little they can do about it anyhow. Senator SMITH. The adviser, then, is not in the post office. He or she is someone outside, either the Congressman of the district or a member of the political party in power?

Postmaster General DONALDSON. That is right.

Senator SMITH. And the adviser is usually the head of the political party in that State. Is it one of the committee members usually? Postmaster General DONALDSON. Sometimes it is and sometimes it is not. As a rule it is.

Senator SMITH. It is interesting to follow the procedure and know that it is not always by promotion, then; that, even though there would be someone in the service that would be qualified and capable of handling the postmaster's job, if it is someone the adviser does not approve of or appreciate, the adviser can very easily call for open competitive examinations.

Postmaster General DONALDSON. I think most of the open competitive examinations are called for not because of that reason but because of the feeling that it ought to be opened up to as many citizens of the community who can qualify as possible.

Oftentimes that proves to be a very good way. There may be any number of people in the community who aspire to be postmaster and who are qualified for it, and the only way you can eliminate any number of those is by holding an examination, and then it narrows down to three.

I think in many instances the recommendation for an open competitive examination is based upon that fact: that they want to give everybody a chance.

And especially, now, give a veteran a chance. I see a great many letters suggesting that we have an open competitive examination because there are a number of qualified veterans whom they would like to see participate.

I think that is the greatest reason at present.

Senator HOEY. General, if this plan is adopted, would it have any effect on the advisers?

Postmaster General DONALDSON. I am going to just have to assume, Senator Hoey, on that, that it would seem to me that the President; whoever he may be, might instruct the Postmaster General, whoever he may be, as to whether or not they are going to consult with anybody at all in the appointments.

Senator HOEY. Then, as far as the plan itself is concerned, about the only change it makes is on the matter of confirmation by the Senate?

Postmaster General DONALDSON. That is correct.

Senator HOEY. Now, as to the advisory system, which has been in effect over the years in both political parties, there is nothing in the plan itself that changes that?

Postmaster General DONALDSON. No, sir.

Senator HOEY. The administra on, anyone who comes in, could adopt the advisory plan or whatever they wanted to. It would not be affected by this plan?

Postmaster General DONALDSON. That would have to be controlled entirely by whoever is the President and whoever the Postmaster General might be.

Senator HOEY. But the President would have the power to make an order of anything he might want along that line. So, he might be able to set up advisers like you have now, or not have any at all? Postmaster General DONALDSON. That is right. I might say, Senator Hoey, that, so far as personal consultation with the President on postmaster appointments is concerned, during my time in the Post Office Department here in Washington, I have only known of two instances where a President expressed any interest in the appointment of a postmaster.

Senator HOEY. I understand most of the advice comes from somebody who has been designated, either a Congressman from the district or a committeeman. They comply with the provisions of the statute. But there is nothing in this plan that changes that.

Postmaster General DONALDSON. There is nothing in this plan that would prevent the Postmaster General, whoever he may be, from consulting advisers, as has been done in the past. After all, it is the Postmaster General who does the consulting of advisers, and not the President.

Senator HOEY. That is right.

Now, in this there is nothing to bind the Postmaster General to take the advice of advisers, either.

Postmaster General DONALDSON. No; there isn't anything in the law that prohibits the Postmaster General from consulting whoever he may please.

And I think the Attorney General ruled one time that there is no violation of the civil-service rules and regulations in consulting anyone, as long as you did not permit any of the advice or the consultation to deal with political or religious affilation.

Senator HOEY. Well, the powers in the Postmaster General would be, under this, to make his election, usually his own election, as to consultation?

Postmaster General DONALDSON. As I stated a little while ago, Senator HOEY, you might have a President who would direct the Postmaster General to consult nobody, or no political party, about an