As you know, the Mexican American legal defense fund will only handle those cases that are precedent setting. When we go into these problems, the lack of legal support is very, very critical.

This is a discouraging factor. There is really no place for us to go. The gringo administrator knows this.

Therefore, he tries to throw something legal at you to stop you with because he knows it is going to take time for you to respond. The best example is the day I was notified in Austin for me to try to provide some assistance in the Uvalde walkout. I had not been in Uvalde, I guess, 10 minutes before I was arrested and a couple of other people were arrested because they knew we could not get legal assistance to put us back in action.

On the first day of the walkout in Edcouch-Elsa they arrested people. These were selected arrests.

They arrested the five leaders right away in Elsa-Edcouch and put them away, and again they recognized the fact that we did not have enough legal support to get them out of jail fast enough for them to continue leading the boycott.

The lack of legal services is very, very critical.

Mr. RUBIO. Last year in the Southwest region we had 66 VISTA lawyers go into the five States of the OEO region. They proved to be very useful and helpful to people with legal problems.

However, with the disorientation which appears to be taking place in VISTA we doubt very much that we will be getting this type of assistance in the future. We are very appreciative of the type of help VISTA gave us.

COMPLIANCE AND MEXICAN AMERICAN SEGREGATION

Mr. GONZÁLEZ. Regarding the percentage of Mexican American students in Uvalde school. Some are heavily impacted Mexican American schools predominantly Mexican American?

Mr. URIEGAS. That is right. I think the percentage shown in the table is probably correct.

Mr. GONZÁLEZ. Has this occurred because of rulings of the school district, or has it occurred because of housing patterns, or what?

Mr. URIEGAS. It used to be that a student could go anywhere in that school district up to about 5 years ago when they drew boundaries. There is obviously gerrymandering all the way around.

Mr. RUBIO. In the city of El Paso, a very eloquent presentation was recently made before the school board there which proved that de facto segregation was in fact because of guidelines which the school system adopted, administration policies, gerrymandering, and so forth, de jure, particularly in the situation of two high schools which were next to each other, but one is predominantly Mexican Americans and black and the other white.

Mr. GONZÁLEZ. Are either of those-El Paso or Uvalde among the list of noncompliance districts that HEW was negotiating with? Mr. URIEGAS. Uvalde is one.

Mr. GONZÁLEZ. They submitted to voluntary compliance? They were not sued by the Justice Department?

46-125-71-pt. 4——9

Mr. URIEGAS. Not yet, not that I know of. HEW had a meeting in Austin and Uvalde was one of the two which refused to attend that meeting with HEW.

Mr. GONZÁLEZ. Did they say why?

Mr. URIEGAS. They said they could take care of their own problems.

Mr. GONZÁLEZ. But they were not sued?
Mr. URIEGAS. Not to my knowledge.

TITLE I

Mr. GONZÁLEZ. On your table 2 where you show the Federal moneys going into the district, you show almost $133,000 in Title I, ESEA. It is my understanding that title I requires a citizens advisory group of some sort.

Mr. URIEGAS. I don't know of any group in an advisory capacity. If they are, I can guarantee you that they are not having any input into this program.

Mr. RUBIO. The guidelines for Headstart and the guidelines for most of these programs require some kind of parental or advisory committee. In most cases, they are cast aside and rarely fulfill their true function.

It is unusual to see a parents group working in partnership with the principal or teacher, for these administrators will not concede that these parents, however, humble they might appear, are the chief educators of their children.

Mr. GONZÁLEZ. One of the points you raised suggested that regulations prohibiting the use of Spanish be done away with. First, there was a State law in Texas.

Mr. RUBIO. It has been repealed. It was repealed in the last legislature.

Mr. GONZÁLEZ. Is the influence of that law still being felt, do you think, in some districts?

Mr. RUBIO. Yes. In Lockhart, school officials said they could not comply with the bilingual demand of the people because it was against State law.

Mr. GONZÁLEZ. They said that after it had been repealed.

Mr. RUBIO. That is correct.

LANGUAGE AND CULTURE

Mr. GONZÁLEZ. Would you hazard a guess as to how many entering first grade, Mexican American children in the district, who live in Uvalde, speak more Spanish than English, that really need a bilingual education for educational reasons, just merely for understanding.

Mr. URIEGAS. I think about 95 percent of the Mexican-American children who attend the first grade.

Mr. GONZÁLEZ. Ninety-percent speak Spanish.

Mr. URIEGAS. Yes.

Mr. GONZÁLEZ. Would you say the nonuse of Spanish for communications of a child is more deterimental in terms of communicating

skills, say, teaching a child to add or subtract or is it more a psychological thing that might be a long-range detriment to the child's growth?

Mr. URIEGAS. I don't think it takes a professional psychologist to see the psychological damage that is done to a child who has for 7 years been speaking Spanish at home which in many instances is the only way he can communicate with his parents and his relatives. Up to the age of 7 he has never been told this is bad, that this is inadequate, or that he is inferior because of this, and then on the first day of school he is confronted by a gringo teacher and is forced to change his entire person.

Take Juan Lopez on his first day of school. Because the teacher is incapable of saying Juan Lopez she changes his name to Johnny Lopey or something like that. Already the acculturation begins. The psychological damage is enormous. I don't think I have to go into much detail. When he is told he is going to be punished for speaking Spanish, it is something he never thought was wrong.

When the insinuation is made or he is directly told that his language is inferior, that his language is no good, that he has to learn how to speak English or else he will never succeed and he is confronted with this the damage is irreparable.

They are not asking him to change within the next few years, they are asking him to change that same day and he is put aside in the room as someone who is different and inferior. You have to put yourself in the shoes of that 7-year-old kid to appreciate what this educational system is doing to him.

BILINGUAL EDUCATION

Mr. GONZÁLEZ. There is a federally funded bilingual program available from USOE. Do you know if the Uvalde schools applied for some of that money?

Mr. URIEGAS. I don't know if it has.

Mr. RUBIO. There are a number of school districts which may have it, but not in Uvalde. If I remember correctly, the percentage of children actually being reached by bilingual. or bicultural programs is no more than 20 percent of the Mexican American student population in Texas. That is a drop in the bucket. Very extensive studies have been made by Dr. Ramirez of Rice University on the psychological disorientation that takes place. There is nothing in his studies, which are very scientific, that in any way buttress the present practices of the school districts. It is bad teaching. It is just not conducive to learning. They are getting pushed out.

LANGUAGE AND CULTURE

Mr. GONZÁLEZ. You also mentioned Americanized versus Anglocized. Can you elaborate on the difference in your opinion?

Mr. RUBIO. The Mexican American is proud of being an American. His parents or his grandparents came to this country because they felt there were certain rights, privileges and benefits here which were not available in Mexico. They very much wanted their children to be American.

But the Mexican American culture is a very special culture. There is a warmth and graciousness and a tradition and a heritage and a language and an extended family pattern that we don't want to lose. If we lose it, we feel culturally bankrupt. We believe this is happening in the schools which are forcing upon us a white middle-class, monolingual substitute.

Mr. GONZÁLEZ. Getting to your recommendations on the State responsibilities, you suggested that the textbooks be culturally and lingually oriented. I guess this has been said for several years now. Do you see any movement in that direction by the State educational agencies?

Mr. RUBIO. Again, we are not that familiar with the education. agency, but we are cognizant that this is not taking place. Fortunately we have seen independent school districts come up with programs on their own.

We have seen some textbooks at educational fairs and so on but I don't think they are being implemented. It is rather startling to see what the texts should say sometimes. In fact, Davey Crockett was probably a Mexican American because it was a revolt of Mexican Americans against Mexico but there were also some very distinct chicano names in the Alamo.

Mr. GONZÁLEZ. Apparently the Senator has been detained. Before we recess, I would like to give you a chance if you have a final statement to make it for the record.

Mr. RUBIO. I hope that your hearings will focus attention on the severe educational problems of our children in the Southwest. I personally attended the so-called White House Conference in El Paso. I have attended two or three other meetings which have focused or attempted to focus the attention of the nation on our plight.

However, progress does not seem to be coming very quickly. I hope something comes out of this which is much more constructive and more positive than in the past.

In the meantime, Joe and I and hundreds of other men and women in Texas and throughout the Southwest are going to continue organizing and developing and promoting the education issue and perhaps with a little bit of time, the Federal, State, and local governments will catch up with us.

Mr. URIEGAS. I have no further statement.

Mr. GONZÁLEZ. If there is nothing else, we stand in recess until tomorrow morning.

(Whereupon, at 11:20 a.m., the select committee recessed to reconvene at 10 a.m., Thursday, August 20, 1970.)

EQUAL EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITY

THURSDAY, AUGUST 20, 1970

U.S. SENATE,

SELECT COMMITTEE ON

EQUAL EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITY,

Washington, D. C.

The select committee met at 10:30 a.m., pursuant to recess, in room 1318, New Senate Office Building, Senator Walter F. Mondale (chairman of the select committee) presiding.

Present: Senators Yarborough, Mondale, and Javits.

Staff members present: Josué González, director of special studies.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. WALTER F. MONDALE, CHAIRMAN OF THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON EQUAL EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITY

Senator MONDALE. The committee will come to order.

Senator Yarborough wanted very much to introduce the panel this morning. Unfortunately, he is presiding in the Senate, but he will be here at 11 o'clock, when his tour of duty over there ends.

We are pleased this morning to have as a panel of witnesses: Mr. Marlo Obledo, director, Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund, San Antonio, Tex.; Father Henry Casso, member of the board, Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund, Los Angeles, Calif.; Mr. Carlos Vela, attorney, former coordinator, Texas State Office of Civil Rights, HEW Office, Corpus Christi, Tex.; and Dr. Hector Garcia, a seasoned witness before us and other committees, founder American GI Forum, former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations for Latin American Affairs, Corpus Christi, Tex.

STATEMENT OF MARIO OBLEDO, DIRECTOR, MEXICAN AMERICAN LEGAL DEFENSE AND EDUCATION FUND, SAN ANTONIO, TEX.

Senator MONDALE. Mr. Obledo, would you proceed?

Mr. OBLEDO. Good morning, Senator; for purposes of the record, I am Mario Obledo. I am the general counsel of the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund, headquartered at present in San Antonio, Tex.

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