Senator THOMAS. Did they continue to pay you? Mr. BURNSIDE. I believe about that time the operation was discontinued. I have forgotten the exact date. Senator THOMAS. They quit because you suggested getting rid of three of their men? Mr. BURNSIDE. I would not say that, Senator. Senator THOMAS. We can imply that from what you did say. Mr. BURNSIDE. I do not believe so. I do not believe I said anything that would infer that. Senator THOMAS. I have to smile, Mr. Burnside, because right at the time this report was being written men were actually being eliminated. Did you ever hear of Mr. Bush? Mr. BURNSIDE. No. Senator THOMAS. Did you ever hear of the slugging of Mr. Bush? Mr. BURNSIDE. There was one instance, if you are referring to the Closure trouble, there was one instance of someone, I do not recall the name, being hit by a picket, or something of that kind, out there. Senator THOMAS. Hit by a picket? Mr. BURNSIDE. So I understood. I do not know. I was not there, and I do not know anything about it. Senator THOMAS. Mr. Bush was the union president Do you think they would mutiny against their leader? Mr. BURNSIDE. I do not know. Senator THOMAS. Does that happen often? Mr. BURNSIDE. Sometimes. Senator THOMAS. Now, Mr. Burnside, just forget all about being a detective. Mr. BURNSIDE. Yes. Senator THOMAS. We want real information about your work. Mr. BURNSIDE. That is as closely as I can give it to you, Senator. Senator THOMAS. Yes. If, for example, a man is slugged, knocked out, dragged away, and thereby eliminated, what would a sentence of that kind mean to you, "If three other men were eliminated" it would be well? Mr. BURNSIDE. I would not say there was any connection there at all. Senator THOMAS. No connection? Mr. BURNSIDE. No. A man merely expresses his opinion here. If something happens to some other man at some later time, I do not see the connection. I do not even know but what that might have happened before this was written. Senator THOMAS. I cannot help but remark that if you give that kind of information to your clients you are cheating them as they have never been cheated before. Put two and two together-let me repeat it again. Mr. BURNSIDE. Yes. Senator THOMAS. See if there isn't some connection. Here is a man slugged, dragged out, and eliminated, and someone suggests that if three other men should be eliminated, it would be a good scheme too. Is there no connection? Mr. BURNSIDE. The way you put it, there would be, but there was no such connection as that, I know, in my mind, and I do not believe in the mind of this operative. Senator THOMAS. Are you sure there was no such connection there? Mr. BURNSIDE. Yes, yes; I am sure of that, Senator. Senator THOMAS. You are sure that the slugging of Bush happened before or after this report? Mr. BURNSIDE. I could not tell you whether it happened before or after this. Senator THOMAS. Now, if it happened before probably there would be some connection, would there not? Mr. BURNSIDE. I do not know that there would be any connection. Simply because a man expresses an opinion here I do not see why there is any connection. Senator THOMAS. Don't you think your client would see some connection? Mr. BURNSIDE. I do not know what my client would see. As I said, this is absolutely a mistake in permitting that to go through. We simply report facts and let it go at that. We are not supposed to make up our clients' minds for them, make suggestions to them, or anything of that kind, we are simply to report facts. Senator THOMAS. What if they had beaten up three other men? It would be a very serious mistake, would it not? Mr. BURNSIDE. It surely would, but there is nothing in there that says any men should be beaten up, or anything like that. Senator THOMAS. Just "eliminated"? Mr. BURNSIDE. You are taking a different interpretation of elimination. He meant here, I believe, I would interpret it, that if these men were eliminated from the discussions, if they dealt directly with the people on the line. Senator THOMAS. Will all of the witnesses please take heed: Everything that they have promised to give us, we are waiting for. None of you are permanently excused, but you are excused for the time being, as the hearing will adjourn in a minute or two, subject to call, so the subpenas are not declared ineffective, but you will be notified when you are wanted again. We promised to listen to the counsel who has made some request, after he telephoned. Has he anything that he wishes to say now? Mr. Buckley. Mr. BUCKLEY. Yes. Senator THOMAS. Mr. Buckley asked to have the privilege of telephoning. Mr. BUCKLEY. Senator, I have put my call in. I will not ascertain it until 12:30. That is, the man I am trying to reach will not be in his office until 12:30. Senator THOMAS. Will you, right after 12:30, get the information which he gives you and what you want to get and give it to Mr. Wohlforth or Mr. Abt, so that we may know what we want? Mr. BUCKLEY. I will, Senator. Mr. BROMLEY. Senator, I would like to know before we adjourn- Mr. BROMLEY. Bruce Bromley, counsel for Pinkerton. Senator THOMAS. Your address? Mr. BROMLEY. 15 Broad Street, New York. So that the record will be perfectly clear, I want to say now that I do not understand that I have promised you to disclose the names of the secret operatives. I have said I would bring here a witness, or tell you the name of a witness who knows that, who has that information, and you can ask him. Senator THOMAS. That is what I understood, Mr. Bromley. Mr. BROMLEY. Yes, sir. I did not want the record to leave the impression that I had promised to disclose information. Senator THOMAS. There are a few affidavits that we want to put into the record before we adjourn. Mr. Wohlforth, just name them, please. TESTIMONY OF ROBERT WOHLFORTH-Resumed Mr. WOHLFORTH. An affidavit by William L. Munger, of Flint, concerning the activities of Al Woodruff, operative of the Corporations Auxiliary Co. Another affidavit of William L. Munger on the same matter. (The documents were marked "Exhibits 536-A and 536-B" and appear in the appendix on pp. 1425-1428.) Mr. WOHLFORTH. Eleven affidavits concerning the exposure of Albert A. Woodruff as a Corporations Auxiliary operative and identifying him as Operative H-226. (The documents were marked "Exhibits 537-A to 537-K" and appear in the appendix on pp. 1428–1431.) Mr. WOHLFORTH. A series of affidavits concerning the activities of John Stott. The first affidavit, by Charles Killinger, of Flint, signed and sworn to, concerning the activities of John Stott. (The document was marked "Exhibit 538" and appears in the appendix on p. 1432.) Mr. WOHLFORTH. An affidavit by Walter Reed, of Flint, a member of the automobile workers' union, concerning the union activities of John Stott. (The document was marked "Exhibit 539" and appears in the appendix on pp. 1432-1433.) Mr. WOHLFORTH. A letter secured under subpena of this committee from the Michigan Bell Telephone Co., as follows: The following toll calls, according to our records, have been made over Flint 33248. This matter is listed in the name of John Stott. And the numbers that Mr. Stott called are those of the Corporations Auxiliary offices in Detroit, and on two calls it gives the name of the Corporations Auxiliary official. (The document was marked "Exhibit 540" and appears in the appendix on p. 1433.) Mr. WOHLFORTH. A series of affidavits concerning the union activities of Richard Adlen. The first one by John J. Thomas, union member, of Flint. The second one by Walter Reed, Flint, Mich., concerning Richard Adlen's union activities. Affidavit by Charles Killinger on the same subject. (The documents were marked "Exhibits 541-A to 541-C” and appear in the appendix on pp. 1433-1435.) Mr. WOHLFORTH. Similarly, a letter obtained from the Michigan Bell Telephone Co. under subpena of this committee which, in substance, reveals that Richard Adlen called from his number the Corporations Auxiliary offices. (The document was marked "Exhibit 542" and appears in the appendix, on p. 1435.) Mr. WOHLFORTH. An affidavit from Steve Rubicz, a business representative of United Lodge 1560 of the International Association of Machinists. This affidavit concerns John Mohacsi, who was previously mentioned before this committee a day or so ago. (The document was marked "Exhibit 543" and appears in the appendix on pp. 1435-1436.) Mr. WOHLFORTH. Similarly another affidavit from John D. Lengel, business agent for the International Association of Machinists, District 47, concerning Louis Foster, a Corporations Auxiliary operative. (The document was marked "Exhibit 544" and appears in the appendix on pp. 1436–1437.) Mr. WOHLFORTH. Similarly an affidavit, or rather a confession of James Howe, an operative of the National Corporation Service, working in the Midland Steel Co., signed and sworn to. (The document was marked "Exhibit 545" and appears in the appendix on pp. 1437-1441.) Mr. WOHLFORTH. Similarly an affidavit of Arthur Dobrzynski conconcerning the exposure of Francis Arthur Roszel, a Corporations Auxiliary operative. (The document was marked "Exhibit 546" and appears in the appendix on pp. 1441-1443.) Mr. WOHLFORTH. I might state, in respect to Mr. Stott and Mr. Roszel, their exposures were matters of record in the public press several days ago. That is all I have, Mr. Chairman. Senator THOMAS. We will stand adjourned until called again by the committee. (Whereupon, at the hour of 12:30 o'clock p. m. the committee. adjourned subject to call.) 1 See testimony of J. H. Smith and Dan G. Ross, p. 1175 ff., and exhibit 500, pp. 13841385. 2 See part 1, testimony of A. E. Lawson, p. 176 ff; testimony of C. M. Kuhl, p. 196 ff; exhibit 187, pp. 359-379. See also testimony of Richard T. Frankensteen in this volume, p. 359 ff. 3 See preliminary hearings, p. 275; pp. 308-310. I. A. C. (Ohio 1905). "Purpose of assisting employers and employees in preventing labor troubles and in the settlement thereof." C. A. C. (Del. 1917). "To assist employers and employees in promoting harmonious relations by and through the installation and maintenance of factory systems and other welfare methods." C. A. C. (Mich. 1917). "To assist employers and employees in promoting harmonious relations and operating efficiency, by and through the installation and maintenance of factory systems and other welfare methods." C. A. C. (N. J. 1924). "To assist employers and employees in promoting harmonious relations by and through the installation and maintenance of welfare systems." "To promote operating efficiency by and through the installation and maintenance of factory systems and other welfare methods." "To promote and encourage advancement in literature and science by the editing, publishing and distribution of magazines, house-organs, education courses and other literature." C. A. C. (N. J. 1927). "To create foster and promote a better understanding between employers and employees, to promote among employees an insight into economic facts, a deeper sense of individual responsibility, and a spirit of cooperation in order to increase production in quality and quantity, to reduce costs, to eliminate loss and waste and to diminish absenteeism and labor turn-over through expert advice recommendations, analyses, inspections and in general, to conduct a business of welfare efficiency and consulting engineers.' C. A. C. (W. Va. 1929). “To create, foster and promote a better understanding between employers and employees, to promote among employees an insight into economic facts a deeper sense of individual responsibility, and a spirit of cooperation in order to reduce costs, to eliminate loss and waste and to diminish absenteeism and labor turn-over through expert advice, recommendations, analyses, inspections and in general to conduct a business of welfare, efficiency and consulting engineers." |