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national space program be in the hands of a single man, the director of NASA, appointed by the President with the advice and consent of the Senate. These two reasons are: (1) To provide for quicker, more direct action on the space program and (2) to insure that one man could be held fully responsible if the program wasn't going the way it should.

The organic legislation of the NACA stipulates that the composition of the main committee shall consist of two representatives each from the Air Force, Navy, and the Civil Aeronautics Authority, and one each from the Smithsonian Institution, the United States Weather Bureau, the National Bureau of Standards, and the Department of Defense. In addition, and I quote: not more than seven other members selected from persons acquainted with the needs of aeronautical science, either civil or military, or skilled in aeronautical engineering or its allied sciences. More than a year ago, legislation was introduced, to raise the committee membership to 19, including 2 from the Army.

Senate bill 3609 calls for appointment by the President to the Space Board of not more than 8 members from Government, with a total membership not to exceed 17. The only stipulation, concerning Government members of the Board, is that at least one shall be from the Department of Defense. Here again, it is my belief that the language was purposely flexible, to permit changes in the Government representation in the Nation's civilian space effort when it becomes clearer and more mature. I expect, however, that the Army, Navy, and Air Force will be represented on the Board, as well as the Department of Defense. Similarly, I expect that the Atomic Energy Commission will be represented, because atomic energy almost certainly will be used importantly to power vehicles for space exploration in the years to come. The National Science Foundation will need to be represented, and probably the United States Weather Bureau, because of the importance of weather observation from satellite stations. That accounts for all but 1 of the 8 Government members. It will be very difficult to provide membership for every Government agency that has interest in space matters without enlarging the Board.

There is one further point I should like to discuss. The bill has made no specific mention of the very important role of the Atomic Energy Commission in the development of nuclear power for space exploration in the years to come. Under the Atomic Energy Act, the Atomic Energy Commission has developed nuclear power for submarines, ships and electro power generating stations. The submarine, ship, and power station have been the responsibility of the agencies working in close cooperation with the AEC. The AEC is now working on nuclear power for aircraft and of interest for space rockets. The new space agency would be expected to develop space craft using nuclear power as rapidly as the AEC develops the nuclear components, and the relationship between the two agencies will have to be very close. I have personally recommended increased effort by the AEC in the nuclear rocket-program.

To implement the policy declaration, contained in section 2, objective 6, starting page 2, line 22, of Senate bill 3609, which readscooperation by the United States with other nations and groups of nations in work done pursuant to this act and in the peaceful application of the results thereof

the following language is suggested for insertion in the bill;

INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION The agency may, under foreign policy guidance by the Department of State, engage in a program of international cooperation in work done pursuant to this act, and in the peaceful application of the results thereof, pursuant to agreements negotiated by the Department of State or approved by that Department.

This language has been worked out with the Department of State, and has the approval of that Department and the Bureau of the Budget.

In closing, I should like to quote three sentences from Dr. Doolittle's statement of May 6:

I have the conviction, and in this I find myself in the company of some very wise men, that a century from now, perhaps much sooner, people will say that this venturing into space that we're planning now was one of the most practical, intelligent investments of our national wealth to be found in history. If we, in the United States, take the wisely bold action necessary to lead in exploiting the possibilities of space technology for science, all mankind will benefit. If Russia wins dominance in this completely new area; well, I think the consequences are fairly plain-probable Soviet world domination.

Here, in a very few words, is the reason why we must do what is necessary to lead in space technology.

That completes my opening statement, Mr. Chairman, and I'll be very happy to try to answer questions.

PARTICIPANTS IN DRAFTING OF BILL

Senator Johnson. Thank you, Dr. Dryden. I certainly commend you for reiterating Dr. Doolittle's statement. I have long felt, as he does, the very great importance of the United States taking bold action in this field. It is unfortunate that we should have hit-or-miss legislation before us that has to be doctored up each time a new witness testifies.

Let me ask you this question. Who participated in drawing up these original instructions which were given to the lawyers who drafted this bill?

Dr. DRYDEN. The bill was drafted by a committee working in the Budget Bureau. Mr. Dembling, sitting beside me, was a member of that committee representing the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics.

Senator JOHNSON. Would you identify him for the record?

Dr. DRYDEN. Mr. Paul G. Dembling, who is Legal Adviser of the NACA.

Senator Johnson. Do you know who participated in drawing up the instructions that were given to the lawyers?

Dr. DRYDEN. I do not know how to answer that question. I gave certain instructions and suggestions to Mr. Dembling, representing the point of view of people within the NACA, but I do not know how to answer the other question.

Senator Johnson. To what extent did your counsel participate in the drafting of the legislation?

Dr. DRYDEN. He was a member of the committee who sat with them, I believe during the entire process.

Senator JOHNSON. How many members were there of that committee?

Dr. DRYDEN. I think five.

Senator JOHNSON. Would you give the names and titles for the record?

Dr. DRYDEN. I think Mr. Stans can give the names. I don't know that I know exactly who they all were.

Senator JOHNSON. Would Mr. Dembling know with whom he associated?

Dr. DRYDEN. I think so.

Mr. DEMBLING. Mr. Finan, Assistant Director of the Bureau of the Budget.

Senator JOHNSON. How do you spell that?
Mr. DEMBLING. F-i-n-a-n.

Mr. Alan Dean, Mr. Finan's assistant, and Mr. Kenneth McClure, who was on detail to the Bureau of the Budget and is Assistant General Counsel for the Department of Commerce.

Mr. S. Paul Johnston, who is director of the Institute of Aeronautical Sciences, sat in at various times. That comprised most of the working committee, sir.

Dr. DRYDEN. Mr. Johnston was serving temporarily as a member of Dr. Killian's staff.

TIME TO STUDY BILL Senator JOHNSON. How much time did you have to study the draft bill which was sent to Congress on April 2, Doctor?

Dr. DRYDEN. It is fair to say we were in complete touch with the state of the draft at all times though Mr. Dembling's membership on the committee.

Senator JOHNSON. Do you mind answering my question? How much time did you have to study the draft bill? It came to us on April 2. When did you start studying it? When did you see it in its completed form?

Dr. DRYDEN. In its completed form, approximately a week beforehand, sir, in the final form.

Senator JOHNSON. Did you have anything to do with setting the 24hour limit on the Defense Department?

Dr. DRYDEN. No, sir.

Senator Johnson. Do you know why they should have been limited to 24 hours?

Dr. DRYDEN. No, sir. This is a part of the operation of Mr. Stans' office. I'm not familiar with that.

SPACE ACT NEEDED THIS SESSION Senator JOHNSON. You stated, I believe, to the House committee that it is important to get a bill on outer space passed by Congress this session, did you not?

Dr. DRYDEN. Yes, sir.

Senator JOHNSON. And would you specifically list for the record your reasons for this viewpoint?

Dr. Dryden. The primary reason is some degree of uncertainty which exists in the people who are working on space projects and who I think will be the same people who will continue to work on space projects, as to whether there will be any change in the management at the top, which might interfere with the progress of the program. I

think it is important to settle the question of responsibility promptly. This is the only reason, sir.

INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION Senator JOHNSON. Did you give any consideration to the international cooperation aspect of the legislation before it came to us?

Dr. DRYDEN. Yes, sir.
Senator Johnson. Why was it not included in the original bill?

Dr. DRYDEN. The State Department felt that this was unnecessary; that the President had the plenary powers to direct participation in international matters.

Senator JOHNSON. Have they reversed their position?

Dr. DRYDEN. They have agreed to the language which I read to you.

Senator JOHNSON. Does that represent a change in their position, then? Can you answer that more directly?

Dr. DRYDEN. Only insofar as being agreeable to inserting this in the bill. In their opinion, I think, it simply represents a restatement of the authority already existent in general law.

Senator JOHNSON. Why do you think it is necessary to put it in the bill?

Dr. DRYDEN. I think, myself, that, in order to emphasize the desire in setting up the new Agency to work for peaceful purposes and to join with others in the world in this direction, it is better to have something specific in the bill other than the mere clause in the introductory preamble.

Senator JohnSON. Do you think, if you had had more time in drafting it, you might have included this originally?

Dr. DRYDEN. It was included in the draft that we sent over originally.

Senator Johnson. It was eliminated, and now is being reincluded? Dr. DRYDEN. That is right.

OTHER AMENDMENTS

Senator JOHNSON. Are you aware of any amendments or any changes that the Defense Department intends to propose to the bill as now written?

Dr. DRYDEN. I think Mr. Stans has worked out with the Defense Department changes in the language which meet the desires of the Defense Department. I do not know the specific details of the change. But I was told last evening that Mr. Stans will present such a proposal to the committee.

Senator Johnson. Have you been consulted about the changes?

Dr. DRYDEN. In general, they were to make it perfectly plain that the responsibility for military projects lies with the Defense Department. I understand that some people have read the language in the bill to mean that the civil Agency would control the military projects within the Department of Defense, and the change in language is to make it perfectly plain that the Defense Department will be responsible for military projects.

Senator Johnson. Have you read the changed language?
Dr. DRYDEN. I have not seen the exact language, sir.
Senator Johnson. Have you approved it without seeing it?

Dr. DRYDEN. I did not say that I approved it without seeing it.
Senator JOHNSON. Do you approve it?
Dr. DRYDEN. I cannot say that without seeing it.
Senator JOHNSON. Do you plan to see it before it is presented?
Dr. DRYDEN. Yes sir.

MILITARY AND CIVILIAN PROJECTS

Senator JOHNSON. Would you define for the committee your understanding of the concepts of civilian control and military control as used in the context of the national space policy?

Dr. DRYDEN. The language in the bill is, I think, interpreted to mean that the civil Agency will have such projects, will deal with such matters, as the scientific exploration of space, the measurements of the properties of the high upper atmosphere and the nearby space, projects which temporarily are now within the Department of Defense dealing with lunar problems, later on with Mars problems, and projects to put a telescope into space. I think the civilian Agency will be engaged in problems of putting man into space, of encouraging the developments which will lead to propulsions, which will make most important ambitious undertakings in space. I think, on the other hand, the military will be concerned with weapons systems, with reconnaissance satellites, and with matters of similar nature.

CHANGE FROM NACA TO NEW AGENCY

Senator JOHNSON. I observed in your statement that you made some comment on the likelihood of other Government agencies being represented on this Board. Now, do you think it is wise in converting the National Advisory Committee on Aeronautics to the National Space Agency, to propose a bill that would make the Board advisory when it has full directive power, as the Committee directing your present organization has?

Dr. DRYDEN. My original feeling, sir, was that the present organization, which has worked very well for 40 years, might very well be left unchanged. However, I have been convinced by the desire for a greater concentration of authority, for the necessity of setting up an organization in which the connections are very direct. This meant, of course, that the committee would then go to an advisory capacity rather than an executive capacity.

Senator JOHNSON. Convinced by whom? Dr. DRYDEN. Convinced by the discussions with the people in the administration and in the Budget Bureau.

Senator Johnson. What people?

Dr. DRYDEN. Well, with the Director of the Budget, with Dr. Killian, and with people of this character, that it was advisable because of the change in the nature of the activities in the new Agency. I should like to make very clear that it is my concept and understanding that the bill does not assign space duties to the NACA. It creates a new agency, which has new types of responsibilities, specifically, for development and for operation of space vehicles. This will require a part of the development of a new part of the Agency which is intended to operate very largely by contract operation rather than through Government laboratories, so that we have a different type of operation in which it is necessary to have a some

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