Senator LIPPITT. I feel it would be a very useful thing if the other side of this question was presented to this committee in some form, because I personally feel that there is another side of it, and it ought to be brought to the attention of the legislators.

Miss GARRETT. I assure you I am surprised that it has not happened.

Senator LIPPITT. But you will realize the position, perhaps, of the Senate when representations come to them all on one side. You said you were especially interested in the training of deaf children?

Miss GARRETT. A number of years ago my sister and I became interested. It was through the successful efforts of three mothers who, on discovering that their children were deaf, at once began to train them in speech and language through the eye that made my sister, who afterwards died, think that this opportunity should be for the masses of the deaf. Mrs. Alexander Graham Bell, of this city, was one.

Senator LIPPITT. One of them was, I think, my sister, Miss Lippitt.

Miss GARRETT. Yes; she was one. We felt this early education ought to be for the masses of the deaf, and if you are interested, I will be very glad to send you some of our literature. We began a little home for this purpose, and we were able to have the State of Pennsylvania adopt it, which makes Pennsylvania the first government in the world to admit the truth that the early years of the deaf children should be utilized, and I think we have proved that in our work.

Senator LIPPITT. You teach them the oral system?

Miss GARRETT. Absolutely. I take them when they are 2, and send them away when they are old enough to go to school with children who can hear.

Senator LIPPITT. You spoke of having some literature on this subject; have you arranged to have that put in the record?

Miss GARRETT. You mean literature about the deaf? Senator LIPPITT. I mean the literature along these same lines. Miss GARRETT. Letters indorsing this; yes. Regarding the general subject under discussion, I want to say that legislation that takes away from all parents and all educators the privilege of discretion and judgment as to what is best for children because some parents and some educators may abuse it, is dangerous to child welfare.

The CHAIRMAN. We would be glad to hear from Mrs. Helen T. Birney, who is present.

STATEMENT OF MRS. HELEN T. BIRNEY, 1516 TWENTY-SECOND STREET NW., WASHINGTON, D. C., CORRESPONDING SECRETARY OF THE NATIONAL CONGRESS OF MOTHERS AND PARENTTEACHER ASSOCIATION.

The CHAIRMAN. What position do you hold in the mothers' congress?

Mrs. BIRNEY. I am national corresponding secretary, so I am in touch with all the States of the Union.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the purpose of your organization?

Mrs. BIRNEY. Entirely educational. To educate parents in duties relating to child welfare, training and work. We have thousands of those parents' organizations in the different States.

The CHAIRMAN. That organization was founded by your sister? Mrs. BIRNEY. Yes; about 20 years ago; it has gone along in its educational work ever since. In the matter of Federal child labor legislation we are desirous that action be postponed until we can learn the effects of such legislation in the different States which have passed laws upon this subject. We have taken steps to get such information, one of which is the sending of a questionaire into those States from which we expect to learn how such laws have affected children educationally, physically, and morally. After getting this information we hope to be able to reach a conclusion as to what Federal legislation is important or necessary and to have something definite to give you.

The CHAIRMAN. How general is your organization?

Mrs. BIRNEY. In what respect do you mean?

The CHAIRMAN. How extensive is it?

Mrs. BIRNEY. It extends all over the United States. And we have branches in foreign countries.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you have an annual congress

Mrs. BIRNEY. Yes; an annual which meets in different cities each year and a triennial that meets here every three years. This year the meeting will be in Nashville, Tenn. Last year it was in Portland, Oreg., and in 1913 it was in Boston, Mass.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you have organizations in the various States also?

Mrs. BIRNEY. In

every State.

The CHAIRMAN. Do they have their regular meetings?

Mrs. BIRNEY. They have their annual meetings in those States where there are State organizations and a State president. In a few of the States we have parent-teacher associations but no State organization.

The CHAIRMAN. With what vigor is that work conducted?

In

Mrs. BIRNEY. With a great deal of vigor. We did have two weak States in the whole Union and they are now coming along very nicely. We have been permitted in the last two years to establish in the Bureau of Education what is known as the home division. the first 15 months 27,969 bulletins on the "Care of the Baby" were sent to the mothers of babies. One thousand nine hundred and seventy-four women are operating in extension of parent-teacher associations and home education. Over 25,000 names of women have been sent in by superintendents of schools who recommend the women as interested and able to cooperate in organizing parents for study of child nurture and home making. This department sends out reading courses of educational nature that have been prepared in collaboration with the Commissioner of Education. In the past 15 months we have sent out 100,000 of these courses. We average about 10,000 a month. The past month of February we had calls from all over the United States from 26,000 applicants to join these courses, so you see we are entirely educational. There are no salaries paid in our organization except for clerical assistance and we pay the expenses of the home department in the Bureau of Education. Our

work is very broad and very educational, and we are doing it entirely for the benefit of the child.

The CHAIRMAN. Besides these State organizations, do you have regular organizations in the various towns and cities?

Mrs. BIRNEY. Yes. The local organizations respond to the State and the State responds to the national, so it is a link within a link all over the country. I could not give you the number of the local organizations.

The CHAIRMAN. About how many members all told?

Mrs. BIRNEY. We have over 100,000 members.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you proceed with your statement?

Mrs. BIRNEY. We think in the mothers' congress that State legislation can much better regulate conditions for the children than national legislation; that the conditions of life vary so in the different States that a Federal law applying one rule for all the States might do harm instead of good. That what would be a good rule for one locality might do harm and be oppressive and injurious in another, far distant perhaps. That regulations for towns or cities where there are factories might be wholly unsuitable for villages or rural communities. We think also that before national legislation is enacted an attempt should be made to make the States feel their responsibility in this matter, and that if educated to that end, as we are trying to do, they will study their particular State conditions and legislate more intelligently for this than can be done by Congress. This process of education is going on and we are most hopeful of good results in all the States. At this very moment, and preliminary to the national meeting of our congress of mothers at Nashville, to be held in April, a number of our earnest and able women are, at their own expense, visiting many of the smaller cities of the South, addressing large gatherings of women on this and kindred subjects and meeting with eager and cordial welcome. They will accomplish good, which will make itself felt, and we feel that a response may be formed in the legislation of those States.

There are features of the proposed legislation which excite our grave apprehension. Compulsory idleness in boys to the age of 14 years is one of the things which ought not to be. I am the mother of five sons and would have thought it a terrible thing for them if I could not have regulated their occupations through their summer vacations, and been compelled by law to suffer them to idle away those periods until they were 14 years old. You can not take the boy of 14 who has not been taught to make himself useful and instill into him the principles of thrift and industry as you might have done when he was a little fellow. You can not begin at 14 to train children. You must begin younger. The performance of regular duties, of work suited to their strength, through their summer vacations and at other times will help them to be good citizens. Habits of loafing and idling once acquired are most difficult to over

come.

The CHAIRMAN. You speak of submitting this matter to the various States. You are aware that this movement springs out of the fact that while many of the States have legislated more or less, there are others that are very slow, and hence those who have been in this humanitarian movement have insisted that the United States

itself should take hold of this matter in order to bring these recalcitrant States into line. What do you think of the importance of that? Mrs. BIRNEY. I think you had better go slowly, than to force things and be sorry. I think in a great many cases where we force upon a State what it is not prepared to accept we do harm instead of good. Last fall I attended a meeting held in Pittsburgh, of the mothers' congress. The mothers there said that this bill, if enacted into law, would work a very great hardship if it should go into effect in January of this year. That their boys would be refused by law to allow their parents to give them any occupation. In order to keep the boys occupied they would be taken out each morning to a municipal farm, which would give them occupation for the day; and they were distressed, because their boys would be taken with a lot of boys, of whose morals and manners they knew nothing, and placed under the guardianship of some man who didn't know them and wasn't interested in them. They considered that it was a very great hardship to give the boys that kind of training instead of getting some legitimate occupation for them that their parents would think was wholesome and beneficial.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you know what Miss Lathrop thinks of this? Mrs. BIRNEY. I do not know.

Miss GARRETT. You referred to some of the States that had no sufficiently advanced legislation to protect their children. I think we will create a more healthful situation in those States through the education we are trying to give them than if they are forced to do something they don't want to do.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. McKelway, you may proceed now.

STATEMENT OF A. J. McKELWAY, WASHINGTON, D. C., SECRETARY FOR THE SOUTHERN STATES, OF THE NATIONAL CHILD LABOR COMMITTEE.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. McKelway, you handed me a copy of a telegram yesterday from the organization of the Women's Congress in Philadelphia.

Mr. McKELWAY. Of Pennsylvania; yes. A letter, not a telegram. The CHAIRMAN. Have you a copy of it?

Mr. McKELWAY. Yes, sir; here is a copy of it.

The CHAIRMAN. Read it, please.

Mr. McKELWAY. I will say this is entirely unsolicited by me. I suppose they have seen the press notices of the appearance of Mrs. Birney and Miss Garrett before the committee.

Mr. A. J. MCKELWAY,

PENNSYLVANIA CONGRESS OF MOTHERS
AND PARENT-TEACHERS ASSOCIATIONS,
Philadelphia, March 22, 1916.

204 Bond Building, Washington, D. C.

DEAR SIR: Will you use the inclosed protest to the best advantage for the children and give it to each member of the Senate Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce? It is indorsed by a committee of members of congress of mothers representing clubs in Philadelphia and vicinity at a meeting held to-day. You may also give it to the Associated Press.

Yours, very truly,

ALICE P. MCCAULEY. (MRS. E. V.)

(The letter is as follows:)

Mr. A. J. MCKELWAY,

PHILADELPHIA, March 22, 1916.

204 Bond Building, Washington, D. C.: When Miss Mary L. Garrett, of Philadelphia, and Mrs. A. A. Birney, of Washington, appeared before the Senate Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce, March 17, against the Keating-Owen child-labor bill, claiming to represent the National Congress of Mothers, of which Mrs. Frederic Schoff, of Philadelphia, is president, they did not represent the opinion of 500 and more members in and near Philadelphia, nor hundreds of others throughout the United States.

A. P. MCCAULEY, Chairman of Committee.

The CHAIRMAN. Neither Miss Garrett nor Mrs. Birney claimed to represent them. How about Mrs. Schoff? Did she join in that? Mr. McKELWAY. No. Her name is on this letterhead as honorary president.

The CHAIRMAN. I wanted to ask you whether, to your knowledge, the mothers' congress has taken hold of this in any particular way? Mr. McKELWAY. Not to my knowledge.

The CHAIRMAN. Do they form part of the organization to which you refer?

Mr. McKELWAY. No.

The CHAIRMAN. May I ask what organizations do you represent and how are they formed?

Mr. McKELWAY. I am one of the secretaries-the southern secretary of the National Child Labor Committee. It is an organization of people interested in the child labor question, organized about 12 years ago.

The CHAIRMAN. How large a committee is that?

Mr. McKELWAY. It has a board of trustees of some 15 members, whose general offices are in New York City. We have some eight or nine thousand contributing members scattered throughout the United States.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the basis of their contribution?

Mr. McKELWAY. They contribute about $60,000 a year-most of them from $2 to $25 a year.

The CHAIRMAN. I would like to know who really represents the children.. I wish you would state the nature of your organization. There are so many conflicting statements made. For instance, Mrs. Birney, the corresponding secretary of the mothers' congress, appeared here with Miss Garrett:

Mr. McKELWAY. Mrs. Birney was a former official, I think, of the Washington Congress of Mothers, but I understand Mrs. Birney is not now officially connected with the organization here. Her sisterin-law was the founder of the congress of mothers. The officers of the National Child Labor Committee are Felix Adler, chairman; Samuel McCune Lindsay and Homer Folks, vice chairmen; V. Everitt Macy, treasurer; Owen R. Lovejoy, general secretary; Á. J. McKelway, secretary for the Southern States; Edward N. Clopper, secretary for the Northern States; Josephine J. Eschenbrenner, membership secretary; and Florence I. Taylor, publication secretary. The board of trustees consists of Felix Adler, Jane Addams, Leo Arnstein, Henry Bruere, Francis G. Caffey, Howell Cheney, Edward T. Devine, Homer Folks, William E. Harmon, Florence Kelley,