the future, must eventually come around to the point where it pays at least a proportionate share of the operation.

Senator ELLENDER. Well, wouldn't that be especially true because air transportation is about the only adequate transportation that can now be visualized for the whole of Alaska?.

General EVEREST. That is true, sir. Air transportation, to particularly interior Alaska, is almost its livelihood.

Senator ELLENDER. Essential. That is right. And for that reason, they stand in a little different position than to what they do in the States. You have various modes of transportation. Anything else, General, you desire to say?

General EVEREST. No, Šenator. I think that is all.
Senator ELLENDER. Thank you very much.

Mr. NORDALE. May I have just a moment to clarify?

Senator ELLENDER. Will you wait until the other witnesses testify? (An off-the-record discussion was had between Senator Ellender, Mayor A. H. Nordale, and Mr. Alvin Polet.)

Senator ELLENDER. In answer to a question asked General Everest as to the cost to the operators who land on Ladd Field, Mr. Polet suggested that Army Circular 98 could be referred to.

Mr. Polet, would it be convenient for you to furnish the committee with one of those?

Mr. POLET. The Army hasn't any surplus ones. I might be able to get one for you. I will try.

Senator ELLENDER. Well, it doesn't have to be filed immediately. Supose you send it to the committee in Washington. You might address it to Homer S. Capehart, chairman, subcommittee.

Mr. White, will you give us your name in full, sir?

STATEMENT OF JOHN W. WHITE, SPECIAL REPRESENTATIVE, PAN AMERICAN AIRWAYS, INC., FAIRBANKS, ALASKA

Mr. WHITE. John H. White, special representative in Alaska for Pan American Airways, Inc. I have been with this company in Alaska most of the time since 1932, during which period I have lived here a great deal of the time, but do not at the present, and am appearing at the request of the city.

Senator ELLENDER. Do you have a prepared statement?
Mr. WHITE. Yes.

Senator ELLENDER. I will let you proceed in your own manner.

Mr. WHITE. In presenting, at the request of the city, the point of view of the scheduled air lines, I propose to draw principally from the experience of PAA, with which I am familiar, but I believe its problems are typical of other scheduled carriers.

There has been a steady growth in the passenger and freight traffic between Alaska and Seattle, as well as within Alaska. There is every indication that this upward trend in traffic will continue.

To meet this growing traffic it has been necessary to use larger and larger equipment. Commencing with 10 passenger planes grossing about 10,000 pounds, present traffic has now outgrown the DC-3, grossing about 26,000 pounds, until the most efficient plane available today is the four-engine plane grossing about 70,000 pounds, with a capacity of 44 passengers and freight measured in tons.

Weeks Field, at Fairbanks, was adequate for the smaller planes, usable for the DC-3, although not adequately surfaced, and impossible for the four-engined plane, except under the most temporary emergency circumstances.

To serve Fairbanks, therefore, the scheduled air lines are dependent on the availability of the Army airport, Ladd Field. To illustrate how dependent we are, may I cite what might have happened last June. Army authorities advised that after June 1 Ladd Field could not be used by commercial planes. Our alternative plans were to land passengers at Big Delta, nearly 100 miles from Fairbanks by highway. The passengers would have been up against the inconvenience and expense of a 100-mile bus ride or taxi flight in a small plane. The military authorities, fortunately, were able to continue allowing us to use Ladd Field, but this example illustrates the precarious position of the traveling public, and those dependent on air express and freight. The military authorities recognize that the Fairbanks area cannot be adequately served today except through the use of Ladd Field. However, their primary concern is rightfully the promotion and maintenance of adequate military air service and the support thereof. The Army, in carrying out their primary obligations, cannot subordinate these to the interests of the scheduled air lines. We, in turn, cannot provide the public with adequate facilities while limited to military areas. It is the traveling public that is caught in the middle and suffers.

The need for increased airport facilities is obvious. The question of financing such facilities then arises. Although traffic is increasing, CAB records will show that substantial mail payments in Alaska are still required. The traffic in Alaska has not reached a point at which it can completely support such costs as would be involved in the construction and maintenance of a major airport. Any normal landing fees and rentals would not meet such costs.

Since this proposed airport is tied in so closely with military development here, we believe it should be a Federal project both as to construction costs, and during the first few years, partial main

tenance costs.

As to construction costs and maintenance costs, and in case you have any professional questions, our chief pilot is here, in case the committee had any questions that would require a professional answer. Senator ELLENDER. You mean as to location?

Mr. WHITE. Anything.

Senator ELLENDER. I don't know anything that would really be professional. We would have to leave that to civil aeronautics. Do you have any idea as to what it would cost to operate and maintain a class 4 port should the Government decide to build one—on an annual basis?

Mr. WHITE. I haven't anything in my head, sir. I am sorry. But all I can say is it would run into thousands.

Senator ELLENDER. Well, that is one answer that I believe would be very beneficial for the record, if it is possible for you gentlemen to get together, because that question is going to be asked, and I think we ought to have an answer. Maybe not accurately, but give an idea as to what it would cost. Assuming that the Government should put up an international airport at, let us say, Anchorage,

it is a considered judgment that a class 4 port would be necessary in Alaska. I mean, in Fairbanks.

Mr. WHITE. The second one, you mean?

Senator ELLENDER. Yes.

Mr. WHITE. I believe it would.

Senator ELLENDER. Anything else?

Mr. WHITE. The international angle, I know, is being elaborated on by other witnesses. If it would be any assistance to you, in the questioning of General Everest, the Pan American landing fees at Ladd Field run just slightly under $500 a month.

Senator ELLENDER. At the present?

Mr. WHITE. At the present.

Senator ELLENDER. I understood the landings were $2.50?
Mr. WHITE. I believe the general was under misapprehension.

Senator ELLENDER. Let me ask you this: If air transportation is developed to the extent you can now visualize, what percent of the entire costs of operation could be borne by those using the port? When I say "those using the port," I mean all companies that would have ships landing there, including the bush pilots. Just a rough percentage?

Mr. WHITE. Well, I think you could start in with possibly a little under 50 percent, and as the traffic developed, it would work from 50 up to 75 percent.

Senator ELLENDER. Well, what would you think of the idea of retaining the present rate of tax that is being imposed by the Federal Government, with the understanding that the tax should be raised toward the maintenance and operation of the port? In other words, do you think that the imposition of the present rate of tax would be destructive to having a large passenger rate of people in the Territory?

Mr. WHITE. I believe the Government would really collect more money, or at least an equal amount, under the lower rate of taxation. Senator ELLENDER. What would you think of imposing a per capita tax of so much for each person landing at either of those two fields, or both?

Mr. WHITE. I honestly think that the fair way to get at the samewell, you mean a per capita tax which would be collected through the

Senator ELLENDER. Through the city. In other words, authorize the city that would operate this port to collect, say, a head tax, if necessary, of so much, so that it could be utilized to pay toward the maintenance and operation of the port?

Mr. WHITE. I believe the theory, Senator, of the collection for the maintenance, being done through the gross weight of the airplane, is fair. That covers both the passengers and the freight, and has been pretty well tried out at most airports in the States.

Senator ELLENDER. I wish you, Mr. White, would get together with others interested and give us a brief on alternative methods of raising funds sufficient, or that may be used toward paying for the operation of the port, because that is one of the hurdles we will have to jump over in order to get this through, and the more evidence you can give us along that line, the better off we might be to get Congress to approve it.

Mr. Tatom, will you give us your name in full, and present occupation and interest in this?

STATEMENT OF STANLEY B. TATOM, PRESIDENT AND GENERAL MANAGER, LOMEN EQUIPMENT CO., FAIRBANKS, ALASKA

Mr. TATOм. My name is Stanley B. Tatom, I am president and general manager of the Lomen Equipment Co., with offices in Anchorage, as well as Fairbanks; and a trustee of the Fairbanks Chamber of Commerce, and I am appearing at this hearing as a representative of the Fairbanks Chamber of Commerce. I have no prepared paper for you.

Our thoughts and opinions on our airport are so familiar to most of us that our stories probably will sound to you like a phonograph record, because we have talked about them so much, and aired them among ourselves in various meetings.

I think one of our errors in our discussion on this airport is we continue to call it a "Fairbanks Airport," and in a true sense of the word, it isn't a Fairbanks Airport. Probably, in the history of the world, there has never been a larger area assigned to a small community for complete service, as has been the experience of Fairbanks. I make that statement because of our climatic conditions, primarily, and because of the geographical location, in that we only have water transportation during the summer months.

Unless there is tremendous stocks sent in to those locations during the summer months, the inhabitants in all of those outlying communities are solely dependent upon air freight and air transportation from Fairbanks, in all directions of the compass. As an example of that, last year we had a freight tie-up of a little over 3 months, followed by some very severe weather which tied up our railroad operations. That meant that Fairbanks, and all of the communities that Fairbanks serviced, was entirely dependent upon airplane service for a period of approximately 4 months out of the 12.

That is a long period in which to try to operate under the conditions and facilities that we have here now.

When we speak of a Fairbanks Airport, we should be thinking, at the same time, just as much of the people who live at Bethel, McGrath, Chicken, Eagle, or any community in this vast empire. During the frozen months, Nome is served largely from Fairbanks. The naval oil program in the Point Barrow district is served entirely from Fairbanks, with an exception of a few emergency flights from other points. Senator ELLENDER. They use the Army at Ladd Field?

Mr. TATOM. No, sir; they use Weeks Field. They must get special permission to fly from Ladd Field.

Senator ELLENDER. Is that the lack of cooperation between the Army and Navy?

Mr. TATOM. No, that is because of the type of operation. And making a comparison as to the port of Fairbanks as a service center, when Under Secretary of the Interior Warren was here, we had a more or less of an informal discussion over here in the building, with several of the leading businessmen and shippers in the area, and included in the meeting was Colonel Johnson, the general manager of the Alaskan Railroad. And for Secretary Warren's record, Colonel Johnson made

this statement, that was news to all of us, and very surprising. He stated that at the present time, this little freight house over here in Fairbanks, on the railroad, is handling a greater amount of freight than is handled by any individual railroad running into Chicago. And Fairbanks is a small community.

I admit that a large tonnage-a large portion of that freight is for the military, but a tremendous amount of that freight is taken immediately from that railroad station to an airport and flown to all corners of the Territory.

That is more proof than ever that Fairbanks is a service center. When we talk about taxing the business property, or the property at Fairbanks to support an airport, we are talking about a very small group of taxpayers. We have less than 2,000 taxpayers in the city of Fairbanks, to support an airport to service the entire Territory.

Senator ELLENDER. Well, let me ask you this. Is any kind of tax imposed on the operators of planes within the Territory that service these various centers?

Mr. TATOM. I cannot answer that. I am not a tax authority and have no interest in an airplane company, so therefore I don't know. Senator ELLENDER. It might be well to look into that. If all of these people who don't pay taxes now in the interior of Alaska, it might be well to give authority to imposing a small amount on the freight that is hauled to them, so that that can be used toward paying for the operation of the port at Fairbanks. I understand that everything outside of the cities is tax-free in Alaska, so there might be a good opportunity to collect something from these people, in that it would give them a more adequate method of transportation with Fairbanks and Anchorage as centers from which they obtain their food and other necessities of life.

Mr. TATOM. I think the Senator has a very good thought in that. To elaborate on that a little further, our costs of operation all through Alaska are very, very high. Operating an airplane off of Weeks Field

is a terrific expense.

Senator ELLENDER. Is it because of the charges imposed, or the type of field?

Mr. TATOм. The type of field. It is gravel and mud. There are no hangar spaces. There is a minimum of space for servicing planes, and that is out in the open. That all tends to raise the operating overhead-operating cost-which must be passed on to the consumer. Senator ELLENDER. If those facilities were provided for in this class IV field in contemplation, it may be that these bush pilots would be willing to pay a little more for the use of such a field?

Mr. TATOM. Here is a thought that was running through my mind on that, and I have discussed it with the others. If we eventually had a facility here that would tend to lower our operating costs, we eventually could operate on not imposing a tax on the airplane operators so much-we want that held down to a minimum-but to have a small tax of some kind on the tonnage of freight that goes through, the same as you have through warehouses all throughout the United States. Now

Senator ELLENDER. I don't imagine there is any tax at all on freight within the Territory; is there?

Mr. TATOM. No, sir. I am doing business in mining equipment———