the elements of the oriental languages, together with an adequate provision for the further cultivation of those languages in India. It is true, indeed, that a very different arrangement was contemplated by the noble founder of the college of Fort William. That institution was designed singly to embrace all the different objects now proposed, on the one hand, by the Company's college in England, and, on the other, by the collegiate establishments at the two chief presidencies in India. It is to be remembered, however, that the actual option between a college exclusively in England, a college exclusively in India, and the mixed system now established, was never presented to the mind of Lord Wellesley. It was not in the power of that noble person to make that precise provision for the wants of the civil service, which now subsists; circumstanced as he was, it is not at all surprising that he should have over-rated (if, as I think, he did over-rate) the comparative efficacy of the only remedy which it lay with him to apply; but, were he called to the decision of the specific question now before us, I should not despair of the distinction of his powerful support to that side of it which I am feebly endeavouring to maintain. The doubts, sir, which I feel respecting the expedience of the college of Calcutta, as originally planned, [ will beg leave to state with great conciseness. It was thought by Lord Wellesley-and I presume that there cannot be a dissentient opinion on the subject-that the oriental part of the acquisitions necessary for the civil servants could be fully gained only in India. The reason evidently is, because there oriental learning is at home. It is there a living subject. It is there in all the clearness, richness, and plenitude of its spring-head; and may be imbibed far more effectually and conveniently than if transported by means of long artificial ducts to a distant region-I might almost say, to another hemisphere. Books, practice, native instructors, all abound. There are also numbers of Europeans, who, both individually and in societies, are pursuing oriental studies with the utmost zeal. Hence every stimulus, and every facility that can be conceived, may there be found for the due and successful prosecution of this branch of knowledge. It is apparently not easy, sir, to resist the force of these considerations. But surely, for reasons precisely similar, the European attainments requisite for the civil service, should be had, where they best can, in Europe. The home, the fountainhead of those branches of proficiency, in Europe, not in India. To say nothing of the greater facility with which the common helps for instruction can be obtained in Europe, there must always be an in is finitely greater choice of able instructors here than could on any system be expected on the other side of the Atlantic. Unless, indeed, we suppose that the Company are to submit to the expense of providing an additional Calcutta College of spare-instructors, and of sending out their professors, like their dispatches, in duplicate. The plain and rational course appears therefore to me to be this, that we should instruct the students, in this country, in European literature, and in the foundation of the oriental tongues; but that we should leave their studies, in the latter branch of learning, to be completed in India. There is another consideration, sir, on this head, which I will shortly mention. Surely it appears somewhat preposterous that a youth should be appointed to a public situation; that, for the purpose of filling this situation, he should be sent out to a remote quarter of the globe; that there should then be embarked with him in the same ship all the apparatus for initiating him in the literature of the country which he is leaving; and that, after his arrival on the scene of his future service, and not sooner, he should be made to commence a certain course of instruction, which, to say the truth, might have been much better pursued before his embarkation. Is it not a more natural and obvious process that he should be educated first, and sent out afterwards? Or, at least, that such part of his training as is confessedly preliminary in the order of things, should also be previous in the order of time? 1 cannot help mentioning one further objection to the plan of an exclusive education in India, which, if as just as it appears to me, is certainly the most important of all, and which has therefore very properly been much expatiated on. It is this that young men, under such a system, would be carried from England at too early an age; that, fresh from the privacy of retired families, and hurried to an entirely new and dazzling scene, where they were in a great measure strangers, where they were surrounded by distractions and seductions of every species, and especially where they had an almost unlimited command of money, they would be much less likely to enter on a severe and systematic course of study, than to be misled into a career of idleness and dissipation. It is surely a matter of the highest importance that those young men, instead of being thus exposed to destruction, should rather be introduced from the private circles whence they come to something like an intermediate state, where they may ac quire habits of decision and self-command where an opportunity may be afforded them of forming their character, and bringing their principles into exercise; and where they may have the means of becoming acquainted with those with whom they are to be connected or associated during the greater part of their lives. With these views and feelings, 1 certainly do not regret that the college at Calcutta has not been permitted altogether to maintain that great and splendid position which it originally occupied. In passing, however, from the plan of a seminary in India to that of a seminary in this country, I feel myself immediately crossed by a question to which I have already adverted. Why, it is said, should you be at the expense of supporting any institution whatever? Why not publish a standard of the qualifications required, and form your judgment of the proficiency of the young men by examination? In considering this important subject, I beg leave, in the first place, distinctly to observe, that the education pointed out by Lord Wellesley as necessary for the Company's civil servants, is not of an ordinary nature. It seems, indeed, to be tacitly admitted, by almost all, that no institution exists in this country capable of affording, within the same compass of time, and to youths of the same age, exactly the species of training required. I am aware that the contrary has been asserted, but I am well persuaded it has been asserted without foundation, and will never be proved. There are seminaries which would afford parts of the properly European instruction, none which would give the whole, still less which would enable the student to combine these with the due pursuit of the oriental languages. It was justly observed by Lord Wellesley, that "no system of education, study, or discipline, then existed, either in Europe or India, founded on the principles, or directed to the objects described" in his minute; and the proposition holds with little abatement of force, even when the object of oriental literature is in part excluded. Nor is this a matter of any surprise, since the education necessary, in the present case, is allowed to be of a singular and appropriate nature. There being no public institutions, then, capable of answering the ends proposed, will it be argued that private tuition might be resorted to for the purpose of supplying the desideratum ? Will it be contended that the families who might be fortunate enough to procure appointments in the Company's service families dispersed throughout the country, and many of whom, however respectable in character, might probably not be overburdened with the goods of this life-would be universally able to command the requisite instruction? Have the cost and charge of giving to young persons so extensive and peculiar an education been properly considered? And, after all, even supposing them able to encounter such an expense, would no difficulty be experienced in procuring efficient teachers? I will venture to say that the speculation is utterly preposterous-it is totally impossible to carry the idea into execution. I go further-lassert that it involves a grievous hardship. I have heard much of the difficulties imposed on families, by compelling them to send their sons to Hertford college. I have heard pathetic descriptions of parents weeping over the dire necessity of placing their children at that noble establishment. What must I think, then, of the substitute now proposed a substitute which would change those alleged inconveniences into something worse than Egyptian bondage? For surely the proverbial cruelty of that task-master who called on his vassals to complete their usual tale of bricks without giving them the necessary materials, would be the tenderest of mercies, compared with the tyranny of the directors, were they to insist on the stated production of qualifications, the means of attaining which, it is allowed, do not exist in this country; and if, when those qualifications did not appear, they were immediately to dismiss those whose failure, under the system they had devised, was inevitable. (Hear! hear !) But then, sir, comes down upon us the whole doctrine of demand and supply, consumption and production,―price and produce. Demand, it is said, will ever create supply; - consumption will ever command production. The Company, therefore, have nothing to do but to demand young men of talents, and they will, without doubt be supplied. Schools will rise up-private seminaries will be established-institutions fit for the education of their civil servants will be founded in every quarter.-Let them but give the word; and all will be accomplished. Let them but state their wants; and their whole object will be answered, by the mere expense of an annual examina tion of the young candidates for writerships. Nothing indeed can be conceived more simple or convenient than this doctrine; according to which, the accomplishments and qualifications of mind are as absolutely and exclusively an affair of supply and demand as the modifications of matter. The commercial principle of supply and demand regulates every thing; and, whether the Company require a fine camblet, or a fine genius, they have only to put their want into the shape of an ad vertisement. They have only to circulate printed statements, in the nature of pattern-cards, of the qualifications needed for their service, and are certain of a speedy supply, without incurring any other expense than that of assorting the ready made article for the outward cargo. If these principles are just, (and cer tainly on no other principles can the plan of a mere test be supported), on what absurd and antiquated principles are our great national foundations for the instruction of youth constituted! The Universities confer degrees of various kinds; some of which are not given without a severe previous examination; and the attainment of these degrees is in several lines of life useful, and in some absolutely necessary. On some of the occasions also of conferring degrees, the persons examined are classified according to their respective proficiency. But the Universities do more --not content with finding the young student an examination and a degree, they find him the previous instruction also; and this is done at an enormous expense to the nation. It now clearly appears that all this expense, (in the words of the resolution before us) "might with great propriety be almost wholly saved." The splendid apparatus, therefore, of halls, colleges, and libraries,-the everlasting routine of chapel, lectures, and theses-in short, the total system of those gorgeous establishments, which overshadow whole towns with their bulk, and lock up the, revenues of entire counties in mortmain,—all those mighty structures, which the bigotry of our forefathers raised, and the unenquiring veneration of their posterity supports, all these, I say, may now be set aside as a most magnificent superfluity. A very simple process will serve the whole purpose. Nothing more is necessary than that the state be but pleased to declare, what qualifications are required for certain situations-what powers of mind should entitle men to particular honors-what scope of talent will raise an individual to competence or to dignity," the same to be certified by gentlemen of known learning and ability, appointed for that purpose." (Hear! and laughter.) But, what is very curious, Sir, it seems from the resolution before the court, that the opponents of the college have disposed of the building at Haileybury before they have got rid of the establishment. They have sold the skeleton, before they have executed the criminal. For the directors are desired to consider whether, as soon as the plan of a mere test and examination is substituted in the room of the establishment for the education of their civil servants, the Company's military seminary, now at Addiscombe, had not better be transferred to the more commodious building at Haileybury. Really, sir, the gentlemen forget their own principles. They forget that, as soon as ever this plan of a test is carried into complete effect, as soon as ever these doctrines of demand and supply are established in all their glory, the Company's military establishment mast inevitably Asiatic Journ.-No. 17. follow the fate of their civil establishment, and, instead of marching to Haileybury, must march to its grave. For, in the name of common reason, why are not the Company to proceed on the same system, in the one case as in the other? Why not advertise that they want a number of ingenious young gentlemen for their military service, specifying the proper qualifications-the same to be certified by gentlemen of known learning and ability, appointed for that purpose?(Hear! and laughter.) When this system is once adopted, every thing will go on easily. The Company's military stores, and their military cadets, will both be delivered according to order-and, after being examined, or (to use a more appropriate word) proved, they may be sent out to India together. I should be sorry to appear to trifle with a proposition recommended by names of such respectability; but I really cannot undertake the serious refutation of a principle, which, if once admitted in its full extent, would attaint all the public institutions that have existed since the days of Lycurgus; which would not only do this, but would annul every wise law and salutary provision that has ever been formed in aid of education: for all these will be found equally unable to stand be fore the full force of that simple reasons ing-if certain qualifications and talents be necessary, they will be in demand; and, if they be in demand, they will as suredly be supplied. I will, however, of fer one or two brief observations for the purpose of showing why this idea of a mere test and examination, is peculiarly inapplicable in the present case. Nothing, I believe, can be more certain than that, if a test were instituted in our universities, of the nature now contemplated, it would, in no very long time, become a mere form. No reflecting person, who has studied the subject of our academical examinations, with opportunities at all adequate for the purpose, can have failed to observe that, as they grow out of the general system of education pursued, so it is from their union with that system that they derive their chief force and efficacy. Sever them from their parent stock-deprive them of that vital connection with their native soil, to which they owe their whole spirit-throw them into the hands of examiners, who, however respectable, have no intimate sympathy with the entire system, no keen feeling of fame or inte rest exciting them carefully to elicit and apportion the merits of the students; and I have little doubt that they would rapidly decline-I have little doubt that they would soon become, like many other examinations which still preserve their place on paper, purely formal and destitute of all vigour or meaning. But the examinations for the Company's service, as proVOL. III. 4 F cite and confirm in them, habits of application, prudence, integrity, and justice." (A Proprietor asked, in a low tone, "Has the present establishment effected these objects?") Mr. R. Grant-" I shall come to that point presently.—(Hear! hear !) —I shall meet that part of the question with perfect confidence. I shall come to it soon posed by the new plan, would probably decline by far quicker steps; or, to speak with more propriety, they would never decline, for they would never flourish. There are clearly no means-it will at least be admitted that there are no obvious means of providing the required qualifications, on the supposition that the present establishment is put down. Still, according to this plan, the Company are to in--and, if I do not egregiously fail in sist that the required qualifications be produced. In fact, it is on the firmness and peremptoriness with which this demand is made, that the whole efficacy of the plan depends. For the very argument is, that the rigour of the demand will at all hazards force a supply. The project therefore can never be expected to succeed, unless the test be enforced with inexorable firmness, constancy, and impartiality. Now, Sir, only observe the consequence. If the test is at all what it ought to beif a real and effective amount of qualification is exacted, then, since the means of providing that amount of qualification do not exist, since it must at least be universally admitted, that they are not common or abundant-nothing can be plainer than that many of the candidates, and probably, in the first instance, the great majority of them, would fail altogether. I ask, what is to be done with those persons? By your own plan of rigour,-by that which is the very essence of your plan-they must be excluded without mercy; I ask whether you mean this? I ask it in behalf of those parents, who have been described as kneeling and weep ing at the Company's feet over the hardships of the present system. They would, then indeed, have reason to kneel and weep-they would then indeed have reason to remonstrate against your systemagainst the strange injustice of punishing men for not doing that, which, by the confession of all parties, could not be done. (Hear, hear.)-Then would come a relaxation of the test, (and, to say the truth, with some appearance of reason,) by those who had introduced it; and thus our whole object is completely sacrificed.. But, sir, I have a stronger objection to this plan. Suppose it to effect all that is hoped from it. Suppose it to develope great talents and create eminent qualifications-still you would have procured but half what you want; and, what is worse, the least important half of the two. What are the qualifications necessary for the civil servants of the Company? They are very accurately stated in the preliminary view of the college, given by the Directors themselves. In that plan, they observe, among other things, that "the cultivation and improvement of the intellectual power of the students, should be accompanied with such a course of moral discipline, as may tend to ex doing justice to the case, a great deal too soon for the hon. proprietor.- (Hear! hear!)-It appears, then, sir, from what I have read, that the object of the directors, in forming this institution, and be it said to their honour, was not merely the infusion of learning and science, but the formation and development of character and conduct. They were less anxious for the intellectual than for the moral proficiency of their youthful servants. And this object, such an institution, if well organized and well directed, is evidently calculated to secure. Under instructors of eminent reputation, appointed by the directors,-under the constant supervision of the directors themselves,-in a society of students, all destined for the same service, and whose mutual acquaintance is therefore to last for life,-under a system of collegiate discipline, forming a suitable medium between the absolute strictness of a school and the perfect liberty which must inevitably be attained on an arrival in India,-it is manifest, not only that the young men have the best inducements and opportunities to form the proper habits, but that their proficiency in this highest of arts and sciences may be surely known by those whose interest and duty it particularly is to possess such information. But, on the plan of a mere test and examination, in what manner are the moral qualifications of the candidates to be ascertained? Are the directors to rely on testimonials sent up from remote parts of the country? Are they to give credit to the certificates of village schoolmasters, or the statements of fathers of families, impartially attesting the excellent conduct and character of their pupils or their sons? Even supposing implicit reliance might be placed on such accounts, would the confined and secluded sort of life previously led by those young men, afford a proper criterion of their capacity to conduct themselves amidst the difficulties and temptations of a more public and stormy scene? If not, in what manner is the test-system to be applied to the fulfilment of this object? Are the virtues of the candidates to be tried by means of interrogatories, and their moral habits to be proved by examination? Must ad vertisements be issued, stating the minimum of "application, prudence, integrity aud justice," necessary in the administration of the Company's affairs,—and requiring that the young men shall undergo an examination as to their proficiency, in these, the same to be certified by gentlemen of known learning and ability?— (A laugh.) On these grounds, I acknowledge I would much rather assent at once to the principle of abolishing the college altogether, and of trusting in future to chance for the attainment of the objects in view, than adopt a system which would only involve the Company in expense and trouble, to disappoint them at last. My learned friend, however, has referred to the exa⚫minations of persons desiring situations in the Company's marine service, for the purpose of shewing that you have already sanctioned the principle he now recommends. But that instance is totally inapplicable to the present case; for this plain and decisive reason-namely, that the very system on which your marine department proceeded, sends the candidates to a proper school for acquiring the qualifications requisite in their profession. They are subjected to a very effectual species of drill. By the regulations of the Company, they must complete a certain number of voyages, before they are eligible to a particular rank. . In fact therefore, and so far as the case admits, they are actually sent to an institution where they may not only acquire that nautical knowledge, but may be formed to those habits of discipline,which their profession requires. Nothing, then, I submit, can be more unfortunate than the precedent on which my learned friend has chosen to rest his proposal. When duly considered, it is a precedent directly against him. I trust, Sir, it now appears that a specific institution is necessary, and if so, it will surely be admitted that a certain residence at that institution should be enforced on all the young men receiving appointments in your civil service. For it would be too much to expect that the Company should set up an institutionthat they should be at very great expense in supporting it, on the presumption that it was imperiously necessary-and that they are then to leave it to the option of those who should attend it, whether they would or would not employ the means of improvement thus placed within their reach. I have indeed heard the idea casually thrown out, that by erecting a seminary, but an open seminary, that is, one the attendance at which should be optional, and by at the same time subjecting all the young men going out to the test of an examination, we should answer every purpose in view; since all those who could not otherwise qualify themselves, might resort to the seminary so established, while the rest are left to obtain an education at such place as they think pro per. Now, sir, a good deal has been said respecting the expense of the college at Haileybury. I intreat you to observe how greatly that expense would be increased by acting on the system I have just mentioned. In that case, besides the expence of the college, the amount of which would be greatly increased by diminishing the number of the students, you must have an additional establishment of examiners. It would clearly be unjust that the pro fessors of the college should be the examiners where the contest lay between young men educated at the college and those educated elsewhere. With regard to the comparative merits of their own students, when tried only against each other, the professors are by far the most competent judges. They then do only what is every day's practice in the colleges at our universities. But if they had to decide on the relative merits of persons formed by themselves, and rivals from other quarters, they would be placed in a situation most invidious. It is possible that they might perform the task with the strictest and most conscientious impartiality; and, I believe, in no hands could a duty so painful and delicate be reposed with more entire confidence than in those of the gentle-, men who manage the college at Haileybury. But with whatever fairness they might conduct themselves, the suspicion and jealousy which such a plan could not fail to excite, are decisive reasons against it. If, then, the suggestion of an open college is adopted, it is manifest, as I have already observed, that it would be neces sary to have a double body of professors, one set to instruct, and another to examine. And, after all, our whole reliance is on the efficacy of the test; but, I trust, have already shewn that, as far as even literary proficiency is concerned, such a reliance would be wholly nugatory with respect to any test disjoined from a system of instruction; and it would be confessedly nugatory with regard to the infinitely more important object of morals. I now come, sir, to the last of the general questions on which I purposed troubling you. If you are to have a seminary, should it be in the nature of a school or of a college? What, indeed, is exactly meant here by a school, I do not profess to have discovered. In the outset of this discussion much was said about the benefits of flagellation.-(No! no! from Mr. R. Jackson.) I should be very sorry to misrepresent the learned gentleman. But I have had no means of information with respect to what passed on the first mention of this subject, excepting the reports in the public journals. If, then, I am mistaken in any of my references to the proceedings on that occasion, they must answer for it who dragged this question into public discussion, without any no |