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I have now considered, sir, at greater length than I wished, the principal questions of a general nature, which this subject has been made to embrace. And I next come to the particular case of the college at Haileybury. I acknowledge indeed, for my own part, that though, in -conformity with the course which this discussion has taken, I hare thought it Tight to bestow a good deal of attention on the general questions alluded to, yet I should have been content to rest the fate of the whole inquiry on the results which the system adopted has actually produced, reference only being had to the circumstances under which it has been carried into effect. If the friends of the college can shew that the institution has, in a considerable degree, already answered, and that it is still going on to answer the ends proposed.they have a defence against every conceivable objection that can be raised on general and speculative grounds. In this court I am sure that such a defence would prevail; for I have always understood that, in this court, questions are viewed practically. Thus at the period the nation was agitated by the discussions respecting the renewal of our charter, one party wished to overturn the Company entirely, and leave the trade entirely open— this was like pulling down the college without any reservation. Another party were anxious to do away with the Company, but to have persons appointed who should decide on the eligibility of individuals desirous of going out to India— this wits similar to the suppression of the college and the introduction of a test. Others again said, Let the Company retain its privileges, and exist in its corporate capacity, but let it enter into an equal competition with all who may be pleased to embark in the Indian trade— this might be compared to the project of an open college; a college, that is, which might be resorted to or not, at the option of the persons receiving writerships. But,in answer to all these speculations, the Company said, "The system which has practice in its favour, is the best. Experience vouches for it. We present you with a solid and substantial structure ;—a structure, in which imperfections may perhaps be pointed out,—but imperfections much more than redeemed by its actual utility;—and we expect you not to exchange this real and tangible good, for (he brilliant but imaginary beauties of a thousand cables in the air."— (Hear\ hear1.)

The question then is—" has the college answered the purposes for which it was instituted?" When I before had the honour of addressing the court on this subject, I undertook distinctly to encounter the charges believed to be meditated against this institution, under three divi

sions—first, a charge against its literature; secondly, a charge against its morals; and thirdly,. a charge against its discipline. In those three forms the attack had been made in public—in those three forms 1 understood it to have been made in this court—and in those three forms I avowed my readiness to give it a meeting.

The learned gentleman however who introduced the resolution proposed, thought proper to enter into questions, totally unconnected with the three topics comprised in the charges referred to, and indeed, in my mind, totally irrelevant to our present subject. He expatiated, at considerable length, on the laws, and what may be termed the political constitution of the college; and contended, that the directors had sacrificed a great part of their power, on the one hand, to the board of control ;—on the other, most foolishly and unjustifiably, to the collegiate authorities. Now, first, with respect to the board of control, what connection has a question of power between them and the directors, with the efficiency of this institution as a place of education? What connection has such a question with the literature of the institution, with its morals, or with its discipline? the questions between the board and the directors, may, for what Ikuow, be very proper matters to introduce elsewhere. They might very properly, perhaps, hold a place in a correspondence between the board and the directors, and be in that shape submitted to the court of proprietors. They might, very properly perhaps, as subjects of parliamentary inquiry, be stated at the bar of the house of commons; though my learned friend will forgive my saying, that whenever the charges he has brought forward" on these grounds against the conduct of the directors, come to be repeated before that tribunal, his arguments will meet with a triumphant refutation from the Company's parliamentary advocate. But, at all events, what possible relevancy have these topics on the present occasion? In the same manner, the learned gentleman censures the directors for having most unwarrantably, as he says, sacrificed their patronage to the professors of the college, by giving them the power of expulsion. Even this, as a mere question of authority between the directors and the professors, has no reference to the efficiency of the institution as a seminary for the education of the Company's civil servants. I cannot help observing, however, that in investing the professors with the power in question, the directors have given them only what is possessed by the immediate conductors of all other seminaries, and what indeed was indispensable to the successful discharge of their trait. No doubt, in surrendering this power, the directors hare made a sacrifice; but the sacrifice was necessary and, so lar from being a ground of reproach against them, should be mentioned to their highest honor. My learned friend lias been very severe on Mr. Malthus for the tone and language of bis pamphlet. That able work is written, it seems, in a style little becoming a person who holds a situation by the gift of the court of directors. The author has presumed, it appears, to intimate that the opinions of the directors are divided on the subject of this institution. He has expressed himself in such terms with respect to the directors, as none of the Company's servants in the east have ever dared to use ;—in such terms, as, if employed by a governor-general, would have caused the instant dismissal even of that high minister. Now, with all respect to my learned friend, I could not, without some degree of surprise, witness his introduction of such a topic, considering the official situation in which he himself, as a member of that learned profession to which I also have the honor of belonging, has been placed by the court of directors, very honorably, 1 think, for both parties,—: and then recollecting the line of conduct, which he usually adopts (acting, doubtless, from the conviction of his miud) in this court. Surely, I say, considering all this, it is a little surprising, on the present occasion, to observe my learned friend's anxious care for the authority of tbe court of directors—his kind apprehension lest the court of directors should not be treated with the most perfect deference by persons holding offices under them,—his watchful jealousy of all attempts to introduce dissension or disunion into the directorial body. Without meaning, however, at all to dispute the propriety of these feelings, I would beg my learned friend to remember, on behalf of Mr. Malthus, that the freedom with which that gentleman has expressed liimself, and which my learned friend so greatly blames, has not been systematic, but was dictated by a painful exigency— that it has not been active and spontaneous, but strictly defensive—and that in fact Mr. Malthus has said nothing on this subject, which was not due to himself and his brother professors, inconsequence of the unjustifiable misrepresentations circulated respecting the administration of the college.

But I quit these topics, and advance to the heads of enquiry I have ventured to propose. And first, with regard to the literature of the institution. Remote as this subject is, from tlie field of our ordinary discussions,—yet, were there time to treat it fully, and were I at all capable of doing it justice, I should not despair

of exciting a strong interest in the minds of my audience. But I feel that I am on' every account bound to limit my demands on tbe attention of tbe court; and, having therefore to offer but a few words on this branch of the question, I will take care that those few shall be words of practice, not of theory.

My notion of an institution of this kind, is, that it ought to furnish the young persons who study at it with an appropriate education;—appropriate, not merely in that wider sense in which the whole course of instruction is shaped with reference to the line of life equally destined for tbe whole body of the students,, but also, individually, appropriate—appropriate in consulting those varieties of taste and talent, by which the minds of men are so markedly distinguished. In a word, it should be an academical institution. Tbe perfection of a collegiate system of instruction I take to be this, that, it shall at once provide for peculiarity, aud for versatility of genius ;—that it shall at once afford scope to those whoclioose to concentrate their principal strength on one or two subjects, and to those who expand themselves over a greater number ;—to those who are excellent in a few things, and to those who are conversant with many. In the university of Cambridge the candidates for degrees in arts are examined in one branch of knowledge, and in one alone,—that of mathematics ;—but of mathematics in the widest and most comprehensive sense of the term. Such a plan can hardly be thought to make sufficient provision for the'object which I have just described. In saying this, 1 shall not, I trust, be understood as speaking disrespectfully of that learned and noble university, to which 1 feel the deepest obligations, aud shall ever hear the strongest attachment. The truth is, that in its general system, the university of Cambridge, pays great respect, and. extends very successful encouragements to the pursuit of other studies as well as* of mathematics; but, taking the examination for degrees by itself, I cannot but consider the exclusive preference of auj one particular department of knowledge* however useful or extensive, (aud none can be more so than that of mathematics,) as a defect. Oxford, who has formed her present system at a period comparatively recent, has had the opportunity of improving on the model afforded by her sister. Here there are two departments of examination, and, corresponding to these, two classes are formed of the candidates who distinguish them-; selves. The two departments are those? of mathematics, and of classical litera-ture or humanity; in which latter, a particular attention is paid to the ancient philosophy. Perhaps, we may consider, theology as forming a third department; for, though no separate honors are allotted to those who excel in this branch of knowledge, yet a competent proficiency in it is deemed indispensable to the attainment of a degree. With regard to the two other departments before-mentioned, all the candidates are expected to do something in each of them; but it is at the option of every individual, in which of them he shall shew himself peculiarly strong, if he does not choose to be strong in both. It appears to me that the principle here acted on, is admirable, and the system itself not far from perfection ; although there may be room for doubt whether the number of subjects examined in, might not with advantage be increased. On this point, however, I do not presume to offer any opinion, with reference to the university in question. In the KastIndia college, certainly, a wider range of subjects was felt to be necessary ; on what grounds 1 need not state, after the luminous manner in which the education requisite for the civil servants of the Company has been described and deduced by lord Wellesley. Lectures are therefore given at the India college, on classical literature; in mathematical science; on the principles of law; in the oriental languages; and, I believe, also on the evidences of Christianity ; and in all these departments, the students, at stated times, undergo examinations. But it is not necessary that the student should divide his attention among these subjects in a ratio of exact equality; nor that every student should distribute his attention among them in exactly'the same proportions with the rest. Different minds, may incline to different objects; and while some are bent on a single object, others may love to embrace a multitude. Now the difficulty was, in contriving rewards for proficiency, to meet all this diversity of mental or intellectual character; and I cannot help thinking that the difficulty has been surmounted in a manner that does credit to the eminent persons by whom the system of instructibn at the college was established. For it is a complete mistake to suppose, with the learned mover of the resolution, that the author of that system was the late Dr. Henley :—the system was framed, on the maturest consideration, by men of the greatest judgment, ability, and attainments. The difficulty in question, I say, was surmounted at the college, by the adoption of a very simple, and, I will venture to call it,a very beautiful practical rule. It was this :—that the same prize should be given to the student who stood first, in one branch of learning—to the second, in two branches—to the third, in three, and onwards in proportion. Thus the same reward is bestowed on the student,

whether he is pre-eminent in one subject —excellent in several, or complete in all. In other words, provision is duly made, both for peculiarity and versatility of genius. But then, the learned gentleman says, that the professors give each but twolectures a week, and represents them as spending the interval in pleasing indolence. Now, sir, there may be points connected with the college, on which my learned friend has not the means of such exact information as if the court had supported the motion for papers on a former day. On such points, therefore, a casual mistake may be unavoidable. But as to the number of lectures given by the professors, this, is in its verynature, a matter of notoriety, and within the reach of every man's; investigation. The slightestinquiry,either at the college, or of any intelligent student, would have enabled my learned friend to ascertain the state of the fact with the utmost precision; and he would then have been in a situation to judge, whether in stating that the professors gave but two lectures a week, he should not be making an attack on men of principle and character, founded on utter misinformation. The truth is, that amongst those professors there are gentlemen who give twelve, eleven, ten, nine, and eight lectures a week, respectively. There is only one professor in the college who gives less than five, and even that gentleman gives four. But it is quite a mistake to consider lecturing as the whole of the business and duty of the professors; for they are always accessible to the young men in their own apartments, and are perfectly ready to giveanyof them advice and direction on the course of their studies.

Having thus taken, Sir, a rapid view of the system of instruction at the college, it is perhaps, natural to say something wi th regard to the men by whom that system is conducted. I should, however, consider myself as acting a very presumptious part, in pretending to offer any remark respecting the qualifications of the' professors of the college, if the injustice with which those gentlemen have been treated-, did uot at once confer it as aright, and impose it as a duty, on all those who have had any opportunity of knowing their merits, to give them that commendation which they so well de~serve. And, incompetent as I feel myself to form an unassisted judgment o» the talents and acquirements of men so eminent, I may at least be allowed 10 bear \a testimony, in which I know I should be supported by a great number of the ablest and most unbiassed opinions. I have, indeed, the honor and the happiness of knowing, personally, some of the professors; I have long known them; but 1 should, not venture to giv e the result of any observations merely my own ; what I wish to state in their favour is, that I have long known the reputation which they bear in the eminent university to which they belong; and that, sometime before their introduction to the situations they now occupy, I had learned to respect and revere them for their talents, virtues, ami attainments.—(Hear! heart) Nor can I help adding it, as a high compliment to the directors as well as to the professors themselves, that they owed their connection with the college (I believe this may be said of all, I know it to be true of most)—not to the influence of favour or interest, but to the irresistible recommendation of an exalted character. —(H> ar! hear !) With respect to the Principal, let me be permitted to observe, that in extent, richness, and accuracy, both of learning and of science, 1 believe him to have few equals; and, on the authority of most impartial and most competent testimony, I am well satisfied that the lectures he delivers at the college, for every quality that cau either bespeak talent in the instructor, or communicate improvement to the pupil, are not surpassed by the very ablest of those delivered at the universities.—(Hear! hear!)' Of Mr. Professor Le Bas, also, I may be allowed to say a few words—because it will be admitted that I speak impartially of hint, when I declare that my acquaintance with him was entirely formed in the severe field of public examination. I had the honor, more than once, of being one among other competitors, with Mr. Le Bas for academical prizes. It will not be supposed that those contests are of a trivial or indifferent nature, when I state, that in the last of them, one of the examiners was the most accomplished classical scholar of our times—1 need scarcely mention the name of Porson. Even yet, indeed, It is impossible to recal the remembrance of those youthful trials without a feeling approaching to alarm. But I venture to introduce these details only with a view of jiving to my humble testimony in favour of Mr. Le Bas, the one merit to which, if to no other, it is entitled—that of impartiality. Let me be allowed, therefore, to pronounce him deserving of every distinction which can be employed to adorn moral worth or literary ability. Indeed, I am so seusible, sir, that I must have appeared guilty of great egotism, in presuming to couple my own name with that of so eminent a person as Mr. Le Bas, that I cannot help adding— what I am sure those who hear me will already have guessed—that, on occasion of the examination alluded to, he was the successful competitor.—[Hear } knar !) Of Mr. Malthus, who was also of the university of Cambridge, 1 seed not say a single word—it fact, be is of »o

university. By his admirable works he bas made every literary society throughout Europe equally his own. (Hear! hear!) Nor need I expapatiate on the uncommon merit of the oriental professors—a subject with which the majority of those who hear me must be perfectly familiar, and: on which there cannot be more than one sentiment. To say the truth, it has not been without great reluctance that I have touched on this topic of character, though perfectly confident of the ground on which I was about to enter. But I felt that it was incumbent on me. , Injured as the persons in question have been, I felt an irresistible impulse to give them all that I was able—the tribute of my sincere and unbiassed attestation. I have spoken from no motive hut the love of justice ;—from no interest, direct or indirect, except the interest we all have in upholding the cause of truth and virtue.—(Hear! hear .')

Such is the system, sir, of the college; and such the persons by whom that system is managed. But, after all, it may be asked, whether there is any positive evidence of the good fruits of the institution, as shown in the actual proficiency of'. the students. My learned friend, and other gentlemen, have remarked, at great length, on a particular report of the college council to the colltge committee—a report necessarily confined to a single term, and, ou the face of it, conceived in terms of comparison, and containing no substantive information whatever. The report states, that the students had not paid so much attention to European literature as had been shewn to it at some former periods, but that the Asiatic languages (the great object of the institution, in the opinion of the gentlemen on the other side), had been cultivated with more than usual success. On this statement aa argument has been raised, that the young men are left to study what they please, and are subject to no control as the part of their teachers. The short and the decisive answer to all this is, that the report, as I have said, is in its very terms comparative. Those who are acquainted) with the universities, know very well that it is, with reference to the results of the annual examination, in common parlance to say, "This is not so good a year as1 usual ;" or " Both our last years have been below par." Now if it were a part of the constitution of the universities, that the leading academical authorities should periodically report to some superior tribunal, the state of literature among the students, their reports must of course notice such fluctuations in the general level of acquirement as I have noticed. On that supposition, with what ease might mutilated extracts of the documents in question, he dragged forth and commented on

in public! What abundance of eloquence might be poured forth on the self-convicted incompetence of the universities to answer their only purpose! With what force might a resolution be recommended to the nation, of razing those lazy and expensive establishments to the ground! And with just as much conclusiveness, and on just as solid a foundation, has all this confident reasoning against the India college been elaborated out of a single sentence in that report of the college council. It is plain that the possibility of occasional variations in the general diligence of the students, must attach to all institutions of the kind, especially to academical institutions, of which it is the distinctive nature, that, instead of compelling a certain fixed and given degree of exertion by positive constraint, they rather aim at eliciting the greatest possible amount of it by the indirect operation of rewards and honors. It is plain also that, where a certain degree of option among different pursuits is allowed to the students (which, as I have already stated, I believe to be the perfection of an academic system of education), there yet is sometimes this alloy of inconvenience, that the general inclination of the body of students may set towards one or two departments in disparagement of others equally or more useful. This, I say, is an inconvenience, and it should be remedied by gentle and gradual means. But it forms no ground of crimination either against the system, or the students, or the teachers. Not content, however, with commenting on the words I have already cited from the report alluded to, my learned friend quoted a clause from it which states, that " the instances had fceen very rare of an abandonment of all literary application;" and on this passage he descanted with great force, as a proof of the want of discipline in the college. Now, sir, the plain English of this passage is, that there was scarcely a dunce in the place; and I greatly doubt whether so much could be said of any other seminary iu the kingdom.—(Hear .' hear .')

I have something more to offer on this subject. The learned mover of the resolution referred, with strong expressions of approbation, to the proficiency displayed by the students of the Company's military seminary, at a recent examination. I have not the smallest doubt, sir, that the praises he has bestowed on that excellent institution are amply deserved. May I be allowed, in my turn, to bear my humble but siucere testimony in equal commendation of the examinations at Hertford? I have had the pleasure, more than once, of seeing the papers produced t>y the students at those examinations, in answer to written questions. I have had this gratification, not merely since the present inquiry was moved, but long be

dsiatic Journ.—ilo. 18.

fore. With respect to the nature of the examinations themselves, and the extent of ground which they cover, all I shall say is, that 1 should be sorry to be subjected to so severe a test of learning and ability. —{Hear .' hear .') Nor would I pretend, without great diffidence, to speak of the particular merits of the papers produced; but I think I am not mistaken in saying that they shewed a surprising, and some of them, even an extraordinary proficiency; such, indeed, as to raise the highest presumptions in favour of the system under which so much talent had been developed, and so much knowledge acquired. A single example cannot be exclusively relied on. Yet I cannot help adding one short anecdote, both because it illustrates the general description I have given, and because it gratifies me with the opportunity of doing honor to a young friend of mine of the very highest promise. Mr. Malthus, someye»rs ago, handed me the written answers of some of the most distinguished students, to a string of questions on subjects connected with political economy. One set of these answers had been given in by the friend to whom I have alluded, Mr. Holt Mackenzie, a name of the first repute at the India college, as it must be in whatever place the character of him who bears it is allowed a sufficient opportunity to develop itself. While I was expressing to Mr. Malthus my admiration of the depth and accuracy of knowledge which my young friend's paper appeared to discover, he said, (and be it observed this was said in private— it passed off without much notice; and, 1 dare say, Mr. Malthus himself may not now remember the circumstance)—but he said, "Had that paper been drawn up by a mature man in three days, I should have thought it a considerable effort; and it was produced by Mackenzie, without book, in three hours."—(Near .' hear !*) But, sir, I will not rest the character of the institution ori the testimony of any individual, still less on my own. There are the highest authorities to prove the industrious habits acquired by thegeneral body of the students at Hertford, and their actual proficiency in one branch of learning—oriental literature ; circumstances which will be allowed to constitute a tolerably strong proof that the general literary interests of the institution have not been neglected. In 1810, the late Lord Minto, then governor-general of India, who was undoubtedly an excellent judge of the qualifications which the Company's civil servants ought to possess, (and it is well known, as the hon. ex-director has already told you, that the In

• Tlii* gentleman went out to India as a Bengal writer in 1805, and now holds the offices of Deputy UcVister to the Sudder Dewanny and Nizamut Adlwlu'i ancl Translator of the Regulations.

Vol. HI. 4 G

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