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dian government had no improper bias in favour of the college), spoke thus of the Students from Haileybury :—" It is with. peculiar pleasure that I do a further justice to the Hertford college, by remarking, that the official reports and returnsof our college will show the students who have been translated from Hertford to Fort William, to staud honorably distinguished for regular attendance ; for obedience to the statutes and discipline of the college; for orderly and decorous demeanor ; for moderation in expense, and consequently in the amount of their debt; and, in a word, for those decencies of conduct which denote men well born, and characters well trained." Such was the testimony of that noble and enlightened person to the moral and studious habits formed at the Hertford college; and to the same effect is a paragraph in a letter from the college council of Fort William, to the governor-general in council, dated December 29, and recorded in the Bengal public consultations of the 1st of April 1814, as follows:—"We take the liberty," they observe, "of repeating in this place the observations made by the right hon. the visitor, in his speech, pronounced at the disputation holdeu 22d September 1810, that the improvement (a very great aud general one) which wc have thought ourselves warranted in asserting, has been very conspicuous in the conduct of the students who have passed through the college at Hertford." The testimony of Mr. Edmonstone, who acted as visitor in the absence of Lord Moira, at the public disputation in 1815, is also very favourable to the Hertford college. After noticing the improvement that had taken place in the conduct of the students at Fort William, he observes, " This gratifying improvement may, perhaps, be traced to sources beyond this establishment;" evidently pointing, as Mr. Malthus observes, to the acknowledged effects of the institution in England.

These testimonies, sir, may suffice with respect to the general effect of the residence at Hertford, in forming the students to habits of regularity and application. But to these must be added the decisive fact, that many of the young men sent out from this seminary have early obtained situations of importance from the government of India—a fact proving not only their reputation in other .respects, but their proficiency in oriental literature, which is a necessary passport to the attainment of high offices in that country. On this head, however, there is the still .farther fact, that the previous course at Hertford is found materially to abridge the period of instruction in the oriental languages at Fort William. Mr. Malthus proves, by actual numerations equally clear and simple, that in the year 1811, of

the students who left the college of Fort William, qualified for official situations, the average stay of those who had never been at the Hertford college, had been three years and two months ; while the average stay of those who had come from the Hertford college had been hut about, ten months, making the whole collegiate residence of the latter, whether in India, or England, about two years and ten months. This makes the whole collegiate residence of the Hertford students the shortest by about four months. But then an hon. proprietor (Mr. Hume) objects to this comparison, as being takeu in a year favourable for the Hertford students. In the following year he finds, on the shewing of Mr. Malthus himself, that the average stay of the Hertford students was ex • tended to upwards of sixteen months, which makes their total residence longer by about two or three months than that of the students arready mentioned, who had never been at the Hertford college. Now, sir, I do not at all know that the bon. proprietor has a right to vary the year for the Hertford students, without varying that for the Fort William students also. But really this is all of very slight consequence. Of what moment can it possibly be, whether the total residence of the Hertford students be a few months more, or a few months less? Does the hon. proprietor forget that the whole college residence of the young men who had never been at Hertford, was employed solely in the acquisition of oriental literature, while the Hertford students, for the two European years of their college-life, had the additional weight of a variety of other studies of great extent and difficulty?—under such circumstances, can a higher compliment be paid to the institution at Hertford, than that we should sit inquiring, whether burdened with all this additional load of employment, it pushes on the student in oriental literature a little faster, or a little slower, than the institution at Fort William, which has that branch of study aud that alone ?—for my own part, I am coutent with the inquiry ; I care not for the answer.

Another hon. proprietor (Mr. Lowndes), in discussing this part of the question, took a course a little extraordinary. "True, (said he), some of the students from Hertford have attained a considerable proficiency in oriental literature. I can inform you, however, from a fact within my own knowledge, that they have owed their proficiency, u«t to Hertford college, but to instruction received at the houses of their parents." So that according to the statement of the hon. proprietor, the students of the India college have become learned, to, he sure, hut they have become learned, not by reason of the college, but iu spilt of it. In proof of his assertion, lie mentioned M r. Bayley, a gentleman of a family of the highest respectability, who had studied oriental literature, with eminent success, at his father's house,although his progress in it might, by some persons, he ascribed to his education at Hertford. 1 acknowledge, sir, that I am generally apt to assign the most obvious cause for a clear effect; and, when the instruction which I know to be given is followed by a proficiency which I see to be attained, I naturally ■conclude such proficiency to be the result of such instruction. What sort of proof does the hon. proprietor require, that the valuable young men who have been considered as doing credit in India to the instruction given at the college in England, were really indebted to that establishment for the acquirements they evinced ? —Who are the witnesses that can satisfy the hon. proprietor on this point ?—will he insist on it that the young men in question, who are now employing their talents on the field of actual service in the east, should themselves he called into this court, to name the persons whom they consider as their benefactors in oriental literature? —then, I say, they shall be called !—I accept the challenge !—I hold in my hand, sir, a packet of the most interesting letters, from some of those very students, and from the most distinguished individuals among them :—and these letters contain such conclusive evidence of the fact which the hon. proprietor has controverted, that all doubt on the subject must be , silenced. They are private letters, addressed to one or other of the professors of the college, and contain the most genuine expressions of regard and gratitude. These documents, the professors have been kind enough, at my earnest request, to place in my hands; and I trust the court will not deem their time misemployed in listening to a very few short extracts. The letters are indeed entirely of a private and confidential nature; but, had I even access to the amiable and excellent writers, I should not offer them any apology for thus publicly producing the extracts I am about to read. Giving them the fullest credit, for the sincerity of the feelings they profess, I am sure, those generous youths would delight in the idea that they should unconsciously have heen employed in preparing a defence for their instructors against injustice, and that the very expression of their attached gratitude should thus pleasingly operate hi repaying the services it acknowledges. The letter which I shall take the liberty of first introducing to the notice of the court, is from Mr. Stirling, whose name appears with such flattering and • honourable distinction in the examination under lord Moira. The testimony from the letters of Mr. Stirling, will, I hope,

be deemed peculiarly in point, considering that the writer is on all hands admitted to have been the greatest proficient in oriental literature, that ever proceeded from the college at Hertford to India. I never had the honour and pleasure of any personal acquaintance with this gentleman, but I have long known and esteemed his character; aud that acquaintance (if 1 may so call it) has been improved by the perusal of several of his letters to the individual professors of the college. Nothing can be more honourable for both parties, than the constant and familiar intercourse he maintains with his former instructors. It shows the friendly kindness and parental care with which he had been treated—it shews on how worthy a subject that care and that kindness had been bestowed. In a letter dated the 12th Sept. 1814, and addressed to the present principal (then only a professor), with whom, I beg to say, Mr. Stirling had no connexion or acquaintance previously to his admission at the college, he thus expresses himself:—

"My dear sir,—If my friends at Hert"ford have not quite forgotten me, by "the end of the second year of my depar"tore from that happy abode, which the "benefits of their instruction and society "rendered so truly important aud de"lightful to me, I trust that acommnni"cation which tells them that I am doing "well, and have succeeded hitherto to "the farthest extent of my wishes, will "meet wilh a welcome reception. My "letter to Mr. Malthus contained most "of the particulars concerning the col"lege of Fort William, and the late ex"animation, that I thought you would "be desirous of bearing; and allow me "to address to you the assurance before "stated in that letter, that no inconsider"able portion of my joy at the success "which crowned my efforts on that "important occasion arose from re"fleeting on the satisfaction which I "knew the professors of Hertford must "experience in learning that I had so "amply supported, as far as theopportu"nity afforded would admit, the credit "of the institution that flourishes under "their guidance and tuition."—{Heart See.)

The single sentence (observed Mr. Grant) with which this gentleman concludes his letter, shews the decided sense he entertains of the benefits which he has derived from the college : he says—

"With the sincerest wishes for your "health, and the long continuance of "such an instructor in an institution "which I shall ever think of with the "strongest feelings of reverence and at"tachineut,—I subscribe myself, yours, "with the greatest regard aud esteem." (Hear! hear 0

I canuot forbear (continued Mr. Grant) adding one sentence from the letter to Mr. Malthus referred to in one of the extracts I have already read. Speaking of the Hertford college, he thus describes it; —" The seminary to which I shall ever "consider myself indebted for a variety "and extent of information that I could '• no where else have received in the space "of two years." Mr. Grant resumed, I have provided myself with other letters, equally affectionate, and containing evidence precisely similar in its effect, though not always couched in equally terse or marked expressions of the merits of the institution. In particular, I have one from my valued and accomplished friend, Mr. Holt Mackenzie; to whom I will pay the high compliment of saying, that in point of talent and acquirement, I should not scruple to place him on the same line of merit with Mr. Stirling. In fact, without any disparagement to many youths of very high qualifications, formed at Hertford, these are perhaps the very two I should have selected for witnesses on the present occasion. In order, however, to put the proprietors in possession of the full force of Mr. Mackenzie's letter, it would be necessary to read a great part of it; and, though it is equally honourable to his feelings and his very uncommon understanding, I fear to trespass on the patience of the court. I will rather therefore give the effect of it through a most unexceptionable channel. A letter has been put into my hands, addressed by Mr. Mackenzie, the father of this gentleman, and celebrated as one of the chief ornaments of the literature of Scotland, to Mr. Malthus. One short extract from this letter will answer my present purpose; and I the rather read it, because much has been said in some stages of the present discussion, respecting the complaints of fathers, sorrowing over the ruin of their sons at Hertford. The court will be glad to hear, on this subject, the sentiments of a most judicious, and at the same time a most affectionate, father :—

"I am tempted to trouble you with a "letter on the subject, not only by the '" satisfaction which I derived from your "pamphlet, but to give (very unnecessa"rily, I grant,) the testimony of one of "your pupils, my son Holt, who owns "with gratitude the kindness and highly "useful instruction which he received at "Hertford, to which he chiefly ascribes "the success of his exertions in India."

I shall mention only one other letter, because it is written by Mr. Bayley, ■whom I presume to be the gentleman mentioned by the honourable proprietor, as having gone through the course at Hertford, but as in fact owing his proficiency in the oriental languages to private •tudy at home. At least, this is the only gentjeman of the highly-respected family

to which he has alluded, who has ever been at the Hertford college. The letter is addressed to the principal; and, among other scattered expressions indicative of the same feelings, contains the following: —" Had I not promised to address you "from India, the recollection of the "kindness 1 received from you at Hert"ford, would have made me determine to "renew my thanks from hence. You "will be glad to hear that I left college "with some little eclat. Prinsep, Bird, "and Molony, did honor to Hertford at "the last examination; and Mackenzie "and Sotheby at the one in January." The court will, however, feel that the very circumstance of so friendly and even intimate a correspondence being kept up be- ■ tween the professors of the college and those of their pupils who have most distinguished themselves, is still more decisive in favour of my present argument, than the extracts 1 have produced, or than any others that can be conceived. Nor indeed is it possible for any extracts adequately to convey the effect which is produced by an actual perusal of this correspondence. The confidential terms in which it is maintained—the pleasure which the writers take in relating the progress and the result of their studies—and the interest which they evidently feel in the honor of the Hertford college—all these are features not only of the most interesting, but the most decisive kind; and, on the mind of an impartial reader, the result will be an impression equally favourable to the writers themselves, and to the parties addressed.

I have now, sir, concluded all that my consideration for the time of the court will permit me to offer to them, ou the subject of the charges against the literary character of the India college; and I trust not onlythat the slight and scanty evidence brought forward in crimination of the establishment on this score, has been shown to be wholly ineffectual for the intended purpose, but that such a view has been afforded of the system of instruction there adopted, the persons by whom that system is enforced, and the effects which there is proof of its having produced, as cannot fail to influence the minds of the court. I now proceed to what I consider as, iu all respects, a much graver head of charge ;—I mean that which concerns the moral character of the college. When I before had the honour of addressing the court, it will, I trust, be recollected that 1 distinctly announced the grouud which I should take on this part of my subject. I distinctly and precisely stated that accusations appeared to have been preferred against the college, imputing to the students vice and immorality, not merely in the degree in which students of the same age at most or all other seminaries, might be chargeable wiih the same irregu

larities;

but in a degree so excessive an" so flagrant, as stamped the college with disgrace, and rendered it the bounden duty of parents to pause before they should trust their children within the contamination of its walls. I farther distinctly stated, that these accusations, whenever they should be repeated, I was prepared gravely, publicly, and deliberately, to meet; and that, in meeting them, I should assert, not indeed the absolute freedom of this institution from every shade and degree of the excesses and intemperances, too common in large societies composed of youth, but its freedom from those excesses and intemperances to fully as great an extent as any other seminary in existence, where the pupils are of the same age.

In assuming this ground, sir, it will not be supposed that I intended to speak lightly of any degree of immorality or irregularity; or that I meant to intimate that the managers of any seminary, or of any society, should not labour to eradicate every sort, uot of corruption only, but . even of defect. Too much care, too much anxiety, cannot be bestowed on this great object. But when the actual character of an existing society in the point of morality is brought into question; when vague and indefinite accusations of vice and excess are urged against such a society; and when we are called on to plead to such accusations—I did not then know —1 do not now know, of any mode in which such crimination can be met, except by stating the relative purity of the society impeached; its purity in comparison with other societies, or in comparison with human nature iu general. Jn a word, if the aim of such a society is to be considered, I say it ought to be perfection. But if its state is to be estimated, then I say we must compare it with the average of existing imperfection.

The able and celebrated professor who has defended the college from the press, takes exactly the same view of this subject. He does not affirm that the India college is a scene of Utopian innocence, however desirable such a state of things might be, and however sincerely it ought to be laboured after. But he explicitly avers, as the result of his own careful observation, that, from what are considered as the ordinary, though they are not therefore the less blameable, vices of of youth, the students of the college in question are beyond all comparison more free than the undergraduates at the English universities; and, in his belief, more free than the head classes of our great schools. Such is the temperate, candid, and manly statement of that learned person. To this he pledges his high character. In so stating, however, it plainly was not the intention of Mr. Malthus to set on foot an invidious comparison be

tween the institution to which he is attached, and other public establishments; but he feit that, where the actual amount of imperfection in an imperfect society is to be assigned, there is no possible method but that of comparison with known societies of the same kind.

The accusations, sir, to which I alluded on the occasion before mentioned of my addressing you, had, Ineed not say, been circulated in the public papers. It was notorious that they had been so ; and it was also very notorious that they had been circulated as reports of what had passed here—as reports of what had been urged by my learned friend who moves this resolution, and by other gentlemen taking a part against the college. Whether all this was truly reported or not I did not know—I had no means of knowing. But it was within every man's knowledge that heavy and undefined charges of vice had been circulated against the college, and that these charges professed to have the sanction of the hon. proprietors to whom I refer. — When, therefore, the present resolution was at length to be moved, I came down to the court with eager expectation.—I was desirous to hear whether accusations of a moral kind were really to be urged; and if so, to what extent, and on what grounds.—I say, I desired to know this, and when the learned mover was addressing the court in support of the resolution, I listened to his speech with almost breathless suspense, in the hope of some distinct charge, at least of some explicit declaration on this most important subject.—I must acknowledge my surprise and concern on not finding what I expected. The learned mover neither re-stated nor disclaimed what the public prints had imputed to him. Iu opposition to the manly and honorable declaration of Mr. Malthus—a declaration as to the state of the fact—he contented himself with saying, "All this may be so; but it is bad enough. If Hertford college is no better than other seminaries, so much the worse for your cause; for we need not send our children to other seminaries, but we are obliged to send them to Hertford college." On thi3 mode of arguing I will take the liberty to remark hereafter; what I now say of it is only this, that it is not joining issue with Mr. Malthus on the state of the fact;—it is not an admission—it is not a denial.

Now, sir, I appeal to the candour and j ustice of the learned mover—I appeal to the candour and justice of this court— whether the college is not entitled to > different treatment. What is the case? Heavy charges are reported to be preferred against the institution.—Its friends profess a readiness to encounter those accusations.—They challenge the proof—they throw down their gage in open day—a time is named—we are here met,—But

tlien when the occasion is thus arrived, wein vain seek to know if those charges were ever made—if tliey are to he persevered in—if they are lo he proved :—I ask, sir, whether this is just and candid? I demand, whether the college lias not a right to say, If those charges were falsely imputed to you, do us the justice to disclaim them ;—if they were erroneously preferred hy you, do us the justice to retract them ■.—but if they were truly urged by you, do us the justice to prove them. I demand whether the college has not a right to say, and whether the sentiment would not find an echo in every bosom that has one pulse which heats true to justice, I have been publicly called to my trial, and, if I an innocent, 1 have a right to be acquitted.—(Hear t hear !)

In the absence of any thing positive, I am obliged to look back at such proofs (if proofs they can be called), as are reported to have been adduced on the occasion of originating this subject. We are told, sir, that great stress was then laid on certain anonymous documents, purporting to be the letters of parents, who lamented that their children should have experienced the demoralizing effect of a residence at the India college. We are told that extracts of those letters were read; but we do not find that the writers were named. And we are told that, on the evidence of those extracts, the college was denounced as a sink of vice and immorality. Sir, every proprietor has a right to form his own opinion from such private sources of information as he can command, and as he believes to be worthy of trust, I therefore cannot complain that the gentlemen who referred to these letters, should themselves have relied on their authority. They were very well entitled to do so. But when matters once came to a public accusation, the fundamental principles of justice enforce a different course. I have seen something of places in which the rules of evidence are applied to the purposes of judical investigation; and have always understood it to be among the very first qualifications of a witness, especially in criminal proceedings, that he shall be visible, and that he shall be disinterested. What then must I think, when I find this court called upon to pronounce a sentence of censure against a great public establishment, on such evidence as I have mentioned?

When, indeed, I hear such testimonies referred to on such an occasion, I am forcibly reminded of an anecdote which I once heard related by a very great man in the House of Commons. Lord Chief Justice Willes was trying a prisoner on the circuit, when a witness positively stating some extraordinary fact, and being questioned as to his means of information, replied, that he had been told what he re

latcd by a ghost. "Well," said my lord chief justice, "1 have no objection to the testimony of the uliost, but first bring him in, and swear him !"—[Loud and uni* vt/rsnl laughter.) So I say; Produce these invisible witnesses! Confront ns with these mysterious beings! Call up these accusing spirits, who have too much delicacy to make themselves seen, but have not too much delicacy to make themselves heard !" O (but it is said), would you: then violate the sauctity of parental grief? Would you compel a sorrowing father to appear in public with all his wounds still bleeding, and to proclaim the history of his child's ruin and his own shame?" Concerned indeed should I be, sir, to commit the smallest outrage on the seclusion of a sorrow so deep. I am content that such a parent shall remain iu the shade. But, if so, in the sacred name of the eternal principles of justice, I call on you to go through with your own rule; and ifyou will not produce your witness for the ends of complete justice, do not produce him for those of crimination '. Otherwise it is not hy me, hut by you, that the sanctity of parental grief is violated—by you, who make me a sufferer by the very respect I pay to that privacy —by you who, in the guise Of a secluded mourner, prepare against me an ambushed enemy, and who convert the most sacred of all feelings into an instrument of injustice '.—Hear ! fyc.J

But it is not my only ground of objection against these witnesses that they are invisible.—Little as we know of them, we know something—and that something is, that they are biassed,—strongly and necessarily biassed,—iu favourof the cause which they are adduced to suppoit. Why, sir, can it be supposed that fathers, who had been deeply wounded hy the failure and discredit of their children—who were naturally eager to lay the blame any where rather tban on the real demerit of their children—who had, in a great degree, identified their own cause with that of their children,—who had very probably been engaged in a warm and painful personal altercation with the collegiate authorities,—and whose whole personal acquaintance with the college, if they had any, was in all likelihood confined to the hurried observation of two or three days, amidst the press of the views aud feelings 1 have described ; can it be supposed, for a moment, that such persons are disinterested witnesses ?—I should almost doubt whether he could be a father, whom. I saw conducting himself with impartiality under such circumstances. I Should be apt to say with the poet, "He has no children '."

These considerations seem to me decidedly to prove what Mr. MalthuS observes, that disappointed fathers are Ae very last

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