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you not look to 1944 and see that there would be a great decrease in the number of cases requiring the use of probation officers?

Mr. CHANDLER. The ordinary types of crime are going down, Mr. Chairman, such as violations of the liquor laws which form a large category. The interstate theft of automobiles has also

gone

down for practical reasons. The number of violations of the antitrust laws has gone down. But the total number of crimes is going up because the decrease in the ordinary type has been more than offset by types of crime related to the war.

Mr. O'NEAL. Do you mean desertions? You have nothing to do with desertions.

Mr. CHANDLER. The only cases in which we do anything in connection with military offenses are those in which the Army calls upon

the probation officers to get some assistance in investigating cases. We give it when it is requested. But do you realize that in the first half of this fiscal year there were something over 3,000 prosecutions for violation of the Selective Service Act.

Mr. O'NEAL. That does not require a probation officer, does it?

Mr. CHANDLER. It certainly does, and they have been of very great help in that connection.

Mr. O'NEAL. In investigating the surroundings?

Mr. CHANDLER. In investigating the offenders and endeavoring to persuade them to accept service.

Mr. O'NEAL. Does the Selective Service, or the Army and Navy, have anything to do with that?

Mr. CHANDLER. The Selective Service has no force for that purpose at all. The Army has no force. The Federal Bureau of Investigation does investigate Selective Service cases for the purpose of finding out whether there have been violations.

Mr. O'NEAL. When does the probation system of the Federal courts come into operation on the question of selective service, or something of that kind!

Mr. CHANDLER. It comes into operation at different periods in different districts. In a certain proportion of the districts, as soon as a violation of the Selective Service Act is reported to the United States attorney he calls in the probation officer and asks his cooperation in getting in touch with the alleged violator, finding out what the facts are, what has led him to take the course the he is taking and persuading him, if possible, to see his duty and to join the ranks. A substantial number of apparent violators are doing that.

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NUMBER OF PERSONS ON PROBATION

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Mr. O'NEAL. Do you know how many you have on probation now whose sentences have been probated ?

Mr. CHANDLER. Something like 29,000.
Mr. CHAPPELL. I think that I can give the precise figures.
Mr. O'Neal. In 1943, what is the last figure that you have?
Mr. CHAPPELL. January 30, 1943, we had 26,114.
Mr. O'NEAL. How many did you have a year before that! ?
Mr. CHAPPELL. 28,591 on July 1, 1942.
Mr. O'NEAL. And the figure before that?
Mr. CHAPPELL. 29,454 on July 1, 1941.

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Mr. O'NEAL. When a man goes in the service, does he cease to be under probation?

Mr. CHAPPELL. Then we release him. The Army will not accept him when he is under the supervision of the civil authorities. We have had an increase of 22 percent in juvenile offenders before the Federal courts. That is not a large group, however.

Mr. HENDRICKS. I would like to ask a question. I notice under your present number of parole officers your case load is 126, and you estimate with the 15 additional it would be 119. You say that you can get along with 5 additional. I want to ask you, of course the case load is not actually balanced. Every man does not have the same number of cases, does he?

Mr. CHANDLER. That is right. As far as we can, if it appears the case load in a particular district is very high for a period of time and it is indicated that that condition is permanent, naturally we take that into account.

Mr. HENDRICKS. What do you do int a case like that; add another parole officer

Mr. CHANDLER. We authorize an additional officer as soon as we are financially in a position to do so.

Mr. HENDRICKS. What do you do in a district where you have very few?

Mr. CHAPPELL. We abolished two positions last year.
Mr. HENDRICKS. Do you have any way of combining two districts ?

Mr. CHANDLER. We cannot do that very well, but if we are able to bring about the appointment of a probation officer who is not needed in one district, in another district where an officer is needed, we do it.

Mr. HENDRICKS. Let me ask you another question along that line. I notice from the statement given Mr. Chappell that over a period

years now your number of parolees have decreased and January 3 you show the number that you have had in 3 years.

Mr. CHAPPELL. That is correct.
Mr. HENDRICKS. Why would we need 5 additional ?
Mr. CHAPPELL. Because the case loads have always been too high.

Mr. HENDRICKS. They have been able to handle them, have they
not?
Mr. CHAPPELL. But not as thoroughly as they should be.

Mr. HENDRICKS. But they have been able to handle them with a fair degree of efficiency? Mr. CHAPPELL. Yes. Mr. HENDRICKS. You can see what we are up against in this problem. Everybody is howling for a cut in all expenses where we can do it. And where somebody has been handling a job efficiently we have to decide whether we want to give you five additional parole officers with a decrease in case load, or whether we should give you what you have. Mr. CHAPPELL. We will do the best that we can. Mr. JOHNSON. Where do you expect to put these five? Mr. CHAPPELL. The Eastern District of Louisiana is one place. They have had a great many people going there for work in defense industries such as the boat-building industry, who will have to be supervised in that district. I have a list of fifteen districts. I do not know which five districts we would select from that group.

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38

THE JUDICIARY APPROPRIATION BILL, 1944

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Mr. HENDRICKS. The reason I brought out the question to save the amount of money that you would have to appropriate for 5 additional parole officers, it looks to me from the excess amount of legal work that the judges have to do we are going to have to provide some additional law clerks, and where we can cut we should do so.

Mr. CHANDLER. I will say very frankly to this committee we believe
that it would be advisable, if you have the money, to provide this
additional number of officers. I do lay stress on the economy of pro-
bation as compared with imprisonment as a method of treatment. The
cost of maintaining a man in prison for a day, in a Federal institution,
is estimated at $1.43. The daily cost of probation is 9 cents, in addi-
tion to which the man is able to work and to support his family.

Mr. O'NEAL. How many probation officers have you?
Mr. CHAPPELL. Two hundred and seventy-one.
Mr. Johnson. Do these parole officers take charge of a parolee?
Mr. CHANDLER. Yes; they are called probation officers.

Mr. JOHNSON. The parolees are required to report to the probation
officer, are they not?

Mr. CHANDLER. They are required to report to him, but the probation officer if he does a good job, goes to see them because he can discover so much more if he sees the man in his home, or if the man is out, if he sees his wife, than if his contact is confined to office visits.

Mr. JOHNSON. How often does he go to see him?

Mr. CHANDLER. Our aim is once a month. We consider that is necessary or good practice. Now, that cannot always be done because of transportation difficulties and the size of the case load.

Mr. JOHNSON. Is that policy being carried out, the probation officers calling personally upon these parolees once a month?

Mr. CHANDLER. Yes. Now, what the officer does in any particular court you will realize is dependent upon the direct instructions of the court, also I know that in some districts the case load, and particularly at the present time, the difficulties of transportation, make calls as often as once a month impossible. That is the standard and we recommend that it be approached as nearly as possible.

It is really necessary and I will tell you why. You might think of a probation officer as making these calls for the purpose of inspecting the conduct of the person under supervision. That is really not the case. The probation officer who properly does his work, while of course he reports any infraction of duty by the person under supervision, really comes to be looked upon by that person as a kind of counselor and friend. The person under supervision knows that if he has a personal problem, such as a child who is not doing so well as he might and he wants to talk to somebody about it, if he has troubles himself, the probation officer is available. I can tell you of probation officers who when the men under their charge have been under stress, have stayed up all night with them in order to wrestle with them mentally and spiritually and persuade them to keep on the right track. These contacts are really very important.

Mr. JOHNSON. We better change his qualifications to make a minister of the probation officer,

Mr. CHANDLER. The right kind of minister is all right.

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QUALIFICATION REQUISITE FOR PROBATION WORK

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Mr. JOHNSON. This idea of qualification, they must be a college graduate and have 2 years of successful experience. Now, I presume that under that theory Abraham Lincoln could not have been a probation officer, could he?

Mr. CHANDLER. Yes, sir.
Mr. JOHNSON. He was not a graduate of any college.

Mr. CHANDLER. The standard calls for a college education or its equivalent. That provision for equivalence gives the right and the opportunity to a court to consider that a given man has acquired the degree of understanding of which a college education is normally some indication, and therefore to appoint him without a college education.

Mr. JOHNSON. I can readily see why you would want to pick a college graduate as being necessary for some positions, but where you are dealing in a case of trying to rehabilitate a man who has violated the law I should think that a college education would not at all be ne sary and it seems to me as I sit here and think I can think of many people that have been of vast value to a community, not as a probation officer, simply as a citizen trying to help people along, and probably have not looked at a picture of a college but have a human understanding and can do much better work.

Mr. CHANDLER. That is a very valuable quality. But suppose you have a man who has that human understanding and whose faculties are disciplined by education. Is the latter not worth something? Suppose you have a person who is mentally abnormal. You want to get help in regard to him. You would normally go to somebody who had a pretty broad education fortified by professional training. Now, believe me, the man who shows a tendency toward criminal conduct has a peculiar bent in his make-up which requires understanding.

Now, of course, human sympathy is an important element, but it can be found among persons who have this training as well as among those who do not. Add to this, that the number of persons who are committing crime is now in the thousands. There is some analogy in the doctor

who has had a good many cases of nose and throat trouble and who has made a specialty of that; he can help you more with that trouble than the general physician. So, when it comes to getting advice for persons who have a tendency toward delinquency, we cannot disregard the value of study of how that problem can best be met, and experience in dealing with such matters.

Mr. HENDRICKS. If the court appoints someone with a college education, he would probably try to appoint someone who had made a special study of sociology and psychology.

Let me ask you this question in regard to Mr. Johnson's proposal there. Do you have some probation officers who do not have a college education? Mr. CHANDLER. Yes, sir; absolutely. Mr. JOHNSON of Indiana. That is what I am getting to. Mr. CHANDLER. Yes, sir. Some of the judges will write to us, “We are thinking of appointing so and so; here is his record. What do

you think about it?" And if we do not think it is very promising We tell him so; but the appointment rests with the judge.

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Mr. Johnson of Indiana. How many of them do not have a college education?

Mr. CHANDLER. I have a table here of the distribution of the 53 probabtion officers who were appointed during 1942.

One had less than a high-school education; 8 were high-school graduates; 6 had some college training, but less than a full course; 20 had a bachelor's degree; 11 had a bachelor's degree plus some graduate study; 6 had a master's degree; 1 had a doctor's degree.

Forty-four of the 53 officers—all of whom, mind you, were appointed by the court, not by me—44 of the 53 had some college training, and 38 of the 53 had college degrees.

Mr. JOHNSON of Indiana. That is the break-down for 1912. I was asking for the over-all.

Mr. CHANDLER. I do not know that I brought it with me. I will be glad to put it in the record.

Mr. JOHNSON of Indiana. I do not care whether it is on the record cr not.

Mr. O'NEAL, Could you insert that in the record?
Mr. CHANDLER. Yes, sir.
(The matter referred to is as follows:)

Distribution of 290 probation officers in the Federal service of Dec. 31, 1942, by education at time of entering on duty

Numbe Graduate, eighth grade.

11 Some high school.

1 13 High-school graduate

29 Some college training

2 72 Bachelor's degree..

104 Bachelor's degree plus graduate study

27 Master's degree..

32 Doctor's degree

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Total...

290 1 Average attendance, 2.1 years. 2 Average attendance, 2.2 years.

At the time of appointment, 165 of the 290 probation officers had achieved college graduation or better (237 had some college training).

Thirty-four of the 165 college graduates had advanced degrees.

It must be borne in mind that some of the probation officers have continued their education following their appointment.

Mr. ANDERSEN of Minnesota. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask about those 15 additional probation officers and 10 additional clerks. Could you not get along without these additional probation officers?

RELATIVE NEED FOR ADDITIONAL OFFICERS AND CLERKS

Mr. CHANDLER. If in your wisdom you omit the appropriation for additional officers, we shall understand, and we can get along with reasonable efficieney. There is no question about it. But I hope you will see your way clear to provide for the additional clerks, for this reason: Presentence investigation, whatever you may think of it, is a service which the courts are demanding more and more. In the first half of this fiscal year something like 7.300 presentence investigations were made. That would mean 15,000 in a vear, and my observation, and that of Mr. Chappell, as we have gone about and visited the proba

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